Internal Security Lighting for Rear of House.

danjo-xx

Any views on this are welcome. I am trying to think outside of the box for a kind of internal solution to an external problem:D

If I put a pir switch like this



in place of the outside lamp on the wall is there any way I could use the existing wiring back to the Kitchen to switch on the Kitchen Lights when any movement is detected outside.

I have two ceiling lights in the kitchen controlled independently by a double light switch. At the back door I have another double switch, one to switch on the outside lamp and the other one switches on/off one of the ceiling lights.



My kitchen spans the width of the house and like the idea at night that if an uninvited guest is in the garden the kitchen will light up.

paddy147

danjo-xx wrote: »

Any views on this are welcome. I am trying to think outside of the box for a kind of internal solution to an external problem:D

If I put a pir switch like this



in place of the outside lamp on the wall is there any way I could use the existing wiring back to the Kitchen to switch on the Kitchen Lights when any movement is detected outside.

I have two ceiling lights in the kitchen controlled independently by a double light switch. At the back door I have another double switch, one to switch on the outside lamp and the other one switches on/off one of the ceiling lights.



My kitchen spans the width of the house and like the idea at night that if an uninvited guest is in the garden the kitchen will light up.

Have to say that,thats a bloody good idea.

Well I think so anyway.:)

jj build

You could do it the same as a two way switch but when u have the light on from the inside and the pir triggers, the light will turn off.

sdanseo

jj build wrote: »

You could do it the same as a two way switch but when u have the light on from the inside and the pir triggers, the light will turn off.

Easily solved with an override switch killing the power to the PIR. Just flick it during waking hours.

It's a big pile of wiring for very little gain though, you'll still be lighting the garden with the external light peresuming you have one, and if there's an alarm you'll know fairly quick if anyone's inside.

cast_iron

For that idea to work, you will need to get a permanent feed to the PIR, which I doubt is there. Then it's doable. Rather than replace the outside light, it would be better to put the PIR in addition to it, as otherwise you will have no light outside.

Cats etc. may prove a problem. Not my cup of tea, but a good idea

Discodog

This is the easy way to do it:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WIRELESS-HOMEEASY-HE413-OUTDOOR-PIR-INDOOR-SOCKET-BYRON-/380290169019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item588b0f78bb

If you don't want cats etc to trigger it then mount it low down but with the "beam" pointing up or horizontal. This works well across gateways etc.

They had some of these PIR's on clearance in B&Q.

Pete67

Might be easier to install a 5A lighting socket in the kitchen, switched from the PIR. You could then plug in an uplight or similar. No messsing with the existing lighting circuit then.

danjo-xx

here's a couple of pic's of the two way switch at the back door.










One switch operates one of the ceiling lights and the other is for the outside wall light.

I never use this switch for the ceiling light.... was hoping there might be some way of using the existing wiring to outside lamp to operate a PIR sensor.

I assume that there is no NEG return wire from the lamp in the light switch wiring as this could have been used as a live return from a PIR and then fed to a lamp in the kitchen.

Discodog

You would need to be able to switch off the PIR otherwise it could drive you nuts.

If you have a 2 way then the PIR might turn the kitchen light off if it was turned on by another switch.

danjo-xx

Discodog wrote: »

You would need to be able to switch off the PIR otherwise it could drive you nuts.

If you have a 2 way then the PIR might turn the kitchen light off if it was turned on by another switch.

I see what your getting at and thanks.

Looking at the wiring in the back box would you reckon that there are two wires going up to the outside lamp and if so can't I use these as live feed up to pir and back down and via one of the switches on the two way switch (after removing existing wiring to that switch) and then on to a new wall lamp as someone else has suggested.

Would that not work or am I missing something!

cast_iron

danjo-xx wrote: »

Looking at the wiring in the back box would you reckon that there are two wires going up to the outside lamp and if so can't I use these as live feed up to pir and back down and via one of the switches on the two way switch (after removing existing wiring to that switch) and then on to a new wall lamp as someone else has suggested.

Would that not work or am I missing something!

It looks like B is your permanent supply from the fuseboard and A1 is the only (live) cable going to the outside light. The neutral and earth most likely go direct to the light and bypass the switch altogether.

There are enough cables at the switch for your idea to work, BUT you will definitely need a permanent supply to the PIR (which you most likely do not have). If you can manage that, no additional wiring would be needed.

danjo-xx

cast_iron wrote: »

It looks like B is your permanent supply from the fuseboard and A1 is the only (live) cable going to the outside light. The neutral and earth most likely go direct to the light and bypass the switch altogether.

There are enough cables at the switch for your idea to work, BUT you will definitely need a permanent supply to the PIR (which you most likely do not have). If you can manage that, no additional wiring would be needed.

When I turn off the two ceiling lights and in the dark walk over to back door and flick a switch one of the lights works as usual....so I have peermanent supply..right?

If the return NEG wire from the outside lamp over back door is fed from the lighting circuilt under the floor upstairs (is this normally the way) then I might only have one wire from the switch to lamp and I need 2 (a return wire).

There are 4 wires, one the feed from other switch, one to the ceiling light, one to outside lamp so where's the 3rd wire going if not just sitting there redundant.

cast_iron

danjo-xx wrote: »

When I turn off the two ceiling lights and in the dark walk over to back door and flick a switch one of the lights works as usual....so I have peermanent supply..right?

Not necessarily. There only needs to be a permanent supply at one switch in a 2-way lighting circuit. This switch has the permanent supply. That's not really what I was saying anyway.

If the return NEG wire from the outside lamp over back door is fed from the lighting circuilt under the floor upstairs (is this normally the way) then I might only have one wire from the switch to lamp and I need 2 (a return wire).

If by neg you mean neutral, it might well be fed that way, but that makes no odds in this case. Your PIR will need a the neutral at the outside lamp, which is already there so no problem with the neutral!

There are 4 wires, one the feed from other switch, one to the ceiling light, one to outside lamp so where's the 3rd wire going if not just sitting there redundant.

The switch is irrelevant additional as wiring is needed from the PIR.

Reading back, I wasn't fully correct in my last post. The PIR needs a permanent supply (Live in), switch wire (Live out) to kitchen light and a neutral to work. You will only have a switch wire from the switch, and a neutral (and earth).
You can change things at the switch to send a permanent supply (Live in) to the PIR, but you need a cable to go to the kitchen lights (live out) to turn them on.

So regardless of what tinkering needs to be done at the switch, you'll need a cable from the PIR to the kitchen lights. This might be fairly easy if you can lift the boards upstairs.

Access

i second disco dog on the homeasy pir... i use it to switch the sittingroom lamp on if the pir is triggered outside when away or at night. the pir runs on 3 x AA bats which last for about 6 months.

Stoner

you can also conside do it by X10 PIRs and an inline lighting module. You'll still need to mess with the wiring to the lights but the PIR would be wireless and can run on batteries, it would at least save you wiring out to the PIR point.

Discodog

Well at the weekend I bought a PIR & mains receiver for €22. Now if anyone crosses my threshold two lamps come on in the house. Took all of 30 mins to install & adjust.

The PIR is mounted behind the gatepost so that it's hidden & at a height of 4ft. It is angled upwards so that it is only triggered by a person or vehicle coming through my gateway so no false alarms. I am about to connect a bell chime as well.

danjo-xx

Discodog wrote: »

Well at the weekend I bought a PIR & mains receiver for €22. Now if anyone crosses my threshold two lamps come on in the house. Took all of 30 mins to install & adjust.

The PIR is mounted behind the gatepost so that it's hidden & at a height of 4ft. It is angled upwards so that it is only triggered by a person or vehicle coming through my gateway so no false alarms. I am about to connect a bell chime as well.

Think I'll run with this solution, any suggestion of a good brand or links.

wait4me

danjo-xx wrote: »

any suggestion of a good brand or links.

+1

Stoner

http://www.steinel.de/en/produkte_fuer_heimwerker/daemmerungsschaltersteinel

Steinel are a decent make, most wholesalers stock them, would generally be better quality than a DIY store, although I'm not commenting on the B&Q unit.

danjo-xx

thanks Stoner I'll bear that brand in mind when I go shopping at the weekend but their web site is not great.

Dug up these two, this one was mentioned above.

http://www.chbyron.com/en/Byron/RemoteControlOutdoorPIRIndoorRemoteSocket/69/69/0/180/model/p/76/HE413/

and home-easy whom I've never heard of.


http://www.homeeasy.eu/RemoteControlOutdoorPIRIndoorRemoteSocket/HE413/191/Product/76/

danjo-xx

Neither B&Q or homebase have them in Waterford, One place on the internet wanted €59 :eek: ordered two of them from here €59 all in.
Some places won't ship to here from uk,


http://buyhomeeasy.co.uk/catalog/index.php

jprboy

Discodog wrote: »

This is the easy way to do it:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WIRELESS-HOMEEASY-HE413-OUTDOOR-PIR-INDOOR-SOCKET-BYRON-/380290169019?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item588b0f78bb

If you don't want cats etc to trigger it then mount it low down but with the "beam" pointing up or horizontal. This works well across gateways etc.

They had some of these PIR's on clearance in B&Q.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but anyone know where I could get something like Discodog refers to here.

I've done a bit of searching both online and in store but no joy.

Discodog

jprboy wrote: »

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but anyone know where I could get something like Discodog refers to here.

I've done a bit of searching both online and in store but no joy.

Here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Home-Easy-Remote-Control-Outdoor-PIR-and-Indoor-Socket-Model-HE413-/170867682511?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222001%26algo%3DSIC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D442777911621550771%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1016%26rk%3D5%26

fiacha

what kind of battery life are you getting from the PIR unit ?

Thanks.
F.