If someone tells you they committed a crime...

blackcoat

If someone tells you they committed a crime, for the sake of discussion say murder, and you don't tell the Guards, can you be charged with any offence if the person is later convicted and it is found out during the investigation that they had told you?

You did not lie to the Guards. You were never interviewed about anything to do with the offence. You made no effirt to help the person 'get away with it'. You simply carried on as normal without telling anybody.

Presumably the persons confession to you would constitute hearsay anyway? Does it amount to perverting the course of justice in any way or is just morally wrong?

dermot_sheehan

If you do anything to aid the offender, you can be prosecuted as an accessory after the fact or for perverting the course of justice.


If you do nothing, before 1997 you could be prosecuted for misprisoning a felony, but the felony/misdemeanour distinction was abolished in Irish law.

There are some certain offences for which failing to report a breach is itself an offence.

Dylan123

I would argue that i did not come forward dew to the threat of retaliation. Staying quiet is one thing. Lying on the stand is a whole different ball game.

I knew of two cousins. One of them was charged with, i think a minor offence. The other cousin lied in court to pervert the course of justice. The lad who lied went to jail and the other walked out of court.

There is a witness protection program available for cases such as murder in gangland killings since the death of Veronica Guerin.


"An estimated 25pc of crimes in Ireland are not reported due to intimidation, while almost one in 10 crimes reported to gardai result in overt intimidation against witnesses, resulting in the collapse of major cases such as the Liam Keane murder trial in 2003."

Judge Brian McCracken and the DPP even seem to think the witness protection programme is a joke. i personally think there needs to be a massive change in the way it works.

If i killed someone and someone else knew about it! The question would be would you kill again to keep them quiet! Its logical you have nothing to lose!
Its simple.

But dont believe everything you are told! Its not worth the paper its written on!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/witness-protection-of-limited-use-says-dpp-1679729.html

Victor

Dylan123 wrote: »

If i killed someone and someone else knew about it! The question would be would you kill again to keep them quiet! Its logical you have nothing to lose!

But you might get caught trying to kill them.

ThatGuyHughesy

Could it be seen as "impeding an investigation" or "obstruction of justice" ?

Dylan123

Victor wrote: »

But you might get caught trying to kill them.

Ha ha.
Not so sure killing 2 is a higher penalty than killing 1 is it?
Mandatory life? Suppose the parole board will be less lenient!

blackcoat

Thanks for the replies.

Let's say there's no intimidation involved. Your brother tells you that he killed someone.
Surely it can't be 'obstruction' of justice if you never get involved with the justice system in anyway. You're never questioned by the Guards.

If your brother is caught and they find out you knew - is not having told them a criminal offence?

(this is purely a hypothetical scenario following on from a discussion with a friend by the way!)

ThatGuyHughesy

Well i guess it would be seen as withholding information so you could be charged unless you're a member of the clergy!

blackcoat

ThatGuyHughesy wrote: »

Well i guess it would be seen as withholding information so you could be charged unless you're a member of the clergy!

Ya maybe, but nobody has asked you to provide information to begin with so you're not witholding it. Had they asked, you might have told...

ThatGuyHughesy

Ye true, legally i'd say you would be grand...... But morally! ha

Dylan123

ThatGuyHughesy wrote: »

Ye true, legally i'd say you would be grand...... But morally! ha

Liability as an accessory is a statutory provision which allows a facilitator to be tried as a principal offender. Section 7(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 states that; any
person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender. In order to be tried as an accessory the person need only know the nature or type of offence intended. So if a person knows that a theft of some sort is intended he will be liable for robbery if force was used.

s8 Penalty for concealing an offence which states you could get 3yrs or s7 penalty for assisting an offender is life as a principal offender.
If you drive me to the bank to conduct an armed robbery and i shoot the security guard and kill him. The driver will also be convicted of murder. See the case of Wharrie 1989.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0008.html#sec8

ThatGuyHughesy

Dylan123 wrote: »

Liability as an accessory is a statutory provision which allows a facilitator to be tried as a principal offender. Section 7(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 states that; any
person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender. In order to be tried as an accessory the person need only know the nature or type of offence intended. So if a person knows that a theft of some sort is intended he will be liable for robbery if force was used.

s7 state you could get up to 3yrs jail! theoretically
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0008.html#sec8

Well i guess that answers it!

Dylan123

Not quite!
There is usually a defence to all rules... Duress would could apply here. But if i am right it will only drop murder to manslaughter?

blackcoat

ThatGuyHughesy wrote: »

Well i guess that answers it!

Not really. The person in my example has done no of those things. They had nothing whatsoever to do with the crime. Nor did they help the offender in any way afterwards.

Had they been questioned, they'd probably have told the guards what they knew.
The offender told them about his crime and they simply chose to do nothing about it.

Victor

Dylan123 wrote: »

Liability as an accessory is a statutory provision which allows a facilitator to be tried as a principal offender. Section 7(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1997 states that; any
person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender. In order to be tried as an accessory the person need only know the nature or type of offence intended. So if a person knows that a theft of some sort is intended he will be liable for robbery if force was used.

s8 Penalty for concealing an offence which states you could get 3yrs or s7 penalty for assisting an offender is life as a principal offender.
If you drive me to bank robbery and you see the glock and the balaclava and i shoot the security guard and kill him. The driver will also be convicted of murder. See the case Perry Wharrie!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0014/sec0008.html#sec8

That only applies to people who profit from the crime or rather profit from the concealment of the crime, e.g. I find out you robbed the bank and you bung me 10 grand (sorry, not enough) to keep me sweet.

If you tell me you did the Northern Bank robbery, for all I know, you are spoofing.

Dylan123

Victor wrote: »

That only applies to people who profit from the crime or rather profit from the concealment of the crime, e.g. I find out you robbed the bank and you bung me 10 grand (sorry, not enough) to keep me sweet.

If you tell me you did the Northern Bank robbery, for all I know, you are spoofing.

Define consideration as in s8 The Criminal Law Act 1997 (how wide is the meaning). Can consideration mean i wont beat you, if you do not testify against me? Or can it mean, i wont testify against you if you promise to behave... or is it simply... i wont tell on you for the the offence of stealing an apple, if you deliver a brown envelope under the door?

Is this not leading towards the offence of coercion under s9 Of the Non fatal offences Against the Person Act 1997?

ThatGuyHughesy

Victor wrote: »

If you tell me you did the Northern Bank robbery, for all I know, you are spoofing.

Never thought of that. For all you know they were lying.

I can't see someone getting charged for not reporting a crime.

But morally you should!:D

Reloc8

Actually concealing information in respect of an unlawful killing is in fact a specific offence, irrespective of any consideration of whether a person is an accessory before/after the fact.

So yes, if someone told you they'd killed someone and you didn't go to the gardai and report, you could be prosecuted.