25% of the labor force is on the live register or an unemployed single parent

Water14

The number of people not working is much higher than that on the live register figure of 444,299. In other countries, a single parent not working is seen as unemployed. In Ireland these people are not seen on the unemployment figures, only as single parents on one parent family payment numbering recipients of 90,484. It they were added them to the live register our live register number would be 534,783. Our labor force is 2,152,000. So, just under 25% of the labor force is on the live register or an unemployed single parent. Source: Statistical Information on Social Welfare Services, 2009.http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/ResearchSurveysAndStatistics/Documents/2009stats.pdf

Also, I think the unemployment figures are being masked by a huge number of welfare allowances and payments. Look at all the other welfare allowances given that are not called unemployment payments and massive numbers of people on them in 2009.
Illness Benefit 77,665
Invalidity Pension 52,922
Disablement Benefit 13,520
One-Parent Family Payment 90,484
Disability Allowance 99,576
Back to Education Allowance 15,877
Farm Assist 8,972

sollar

Our welfare bill is 22 billion and we are bringing in 32 billion. Its truely out of hand.

tenchi-fan

Illness Benefit 77,665
Invalidity Pension 52,922
Disablement Benefit 13,520
One-Parent Family Payment 90,484
Disability Allowance 99,576
Back to Education Allowance 15,877
Farm Assist 8,972

In addition:

A large number of public servants who are practically redundant but still on the payroll
People on work placement programmes.
People doing fas courses
People working for state funded charities and organisations (pavee point, for example)
And the ridiculous number of third level students, many of whom receive grants.

In the age group 16-59, only 60% of people actually work at all and many of those claim benefits too (medical cards, family income supplement, jobseekers for days not worked, and btea!)

whelan1

dont get me started , didnt need to read this at 6.30 on a saturday morning when I am heading to work

MagicSean

sollar wrote: »

Our welfare bill is 22 billion and we are bringing in 32 billion. Its truely out of hand.

No politician seems willing to address this issue at all.

Pete_Cavan

k_mac wrote: »

No politician seems willing to address this issue at all.

I had hoped FG would but the minute it became clear they would have to go into coalition with Lab that went out the window.

AlekSmart

K_mac : No politician seems willing to address this issue at all.

I think the rather problematic truth is that Politicians did actually address this Elephant-in-the-Room and on more than one occassion too.

I believe there is evidence to be found of various "Memorandums to Cabinet" compiled by various senior Departmental figures which laid out in stark realistic terms the steps needed to end our national reliance on and appreciation for "Free-Stuff".

My understanding is,however,that the single greatest common-denominator in all of the scenarios presented was the very real probability of serious civil-unrest if the necessary remedial action were to be taken.

I understand that various senior Gardai and Military officers as well as "Seniors" from their relevant Government Departments all submitted detailed position papers on their agencies plans for dealing with such Civil unrest.

The level of Welfare dependency in Ireland and the assorted deliquency of spiriit it brings with it leaves this country and it`s people uniquely ill-fitted to working our way out of this disaster.

We have,as a people,ceased thinking of individual mechanisims or ideas to suport ourselves or to push our own handcarts forward,instead we cluster around the various Departmental chutes down along which our gur is thrown...I`d not be surprised at all to discover we`ve been prescribed a diet of Soylent Green !!!

RichardAnd

The level of welfare dependency in this country is a disaster just waiting to happen and, it seems, getting ready to do so. As someone above mentioned, we spend about 2/3s of our income on welfare alone.

Cuts of a fiver a week to the dole or a few euro off the single mother allowance simply shaves the surface of this monster. Even if we cut 4 billion off the welfare bill, we'd still be spending over half of our annual income.

And then there's the reality of what bringing welfare into line would do. Consider the dole being cut to 100 euro a week tops, mothers' allowances equally slashed and other benefits scrapped entirely. This perfectly shows the huge danger welfare dependency can present to a country.

I really don't see an easy way out of this one.

zig

Does anyone know if part time workers who are also on welfare counted to be on the live register?

cee_jay

zig wrote: »

Does anyone know if part time workers who are also on welfare counted to be on the live register?

It depends on what sort of part time worker they are.
If they are on systematic short time, they are not on the live register, if they are not, they are.

zig

not sure what that means, i know some people working a regular part time job and legally claiming.

AlekSmart

RichardAnd wrote: »

The level of welfare dependency in this country is a disaster just waiting to happen and, it seems, getting ready to do so. As someone above mentioned, we spend about 2/3s of our income on welfare alone.

Cuts of a fiver a week to the dole or a few euro off the single mother allowance simply shaves the surface of this monster. Even if we cut 4 billion off the welfare bill, we'd still be spending over half of our annual income.

And then there's the reality of what bringing welfare into line would do. Consider the dole being cut to 100 euro a week tops, mothers' allowances equally slashed and other benefits scrapped entirely. This perfectly shows the huge danger welfare dependency can present to a country.

I really don't see an easy way out of this one.

Its now gone far beyond any simplistic principle of cutting €x or €y from any specific Socially funded allowance or payment.

Probably the single greatest reason why such cut`s have not been made is the knowledge within the Departmental Sectors of the immediate and far reaching reactions of those effected.

Our fundamental error,first made in the mid 1980`s and then compounded annually,was the shifting of Social Payment ethos away from the principle of emergency short to medium term Support to one of a full replacement funding for whatever lifestyle recipients felt the need to maintain.

The annual mantra,made in the first sentence of successive Budget Day speeches was the need to ensure that Welfare Recipients were not "disadvantaged" or otherwise offended in any way.

We as a country are now a full three decades into this culture and are now so deeply embedded that,for many,it has actually become an industry in itself with so many NGO`s and "Support Agencies" vying with the actual Dept of Social Protection itself to protect people.

Even if some clear-headed thinking is brought into being,nobody in authority appears to realize the futility of continuing to disburse more than we can take in....?

Whatever happened to the old National School Table Book...?

sollar

k_mac wrote: »

No politician seems willing to address this issue at all.

I listened to joan burton on rte radio on the 12th Mar and she does not sound like a woman that is looking to make cuts. It sounded like she was going to defend the current system to the hilt.

Also what sort of system would pay the same level of support to some layabout still on the dole 10 years down the line as someone just laid off. In addition pay rent allowance indefinitely or even give them a council house.

hmmm

sollar wrote: »

Also what sort of system would pay the same level of support to some layabout still on the dole 10 years down the line as someone just laid off. In addition pay rent allowance indefinitely or even give them a council house.

It's in many ways the reverse. More benefits (such as council houses) come your way the longer you are unemployed.

who_ru

don't forget the 500million euro paid over to private landlords last year. it is estimates that 95,000 households are in receipt of rent allowance/supplement.

500 million euro to private landlords!!! Rent Allowance and NAMA are the last desperate gamble to prop up high rents & notional property values.

no mention was made of this during the recent election if i can recall.

Nolanger

zig wrote: »

not sure what that means, i know some people working a regular part time job and legally claiming.

There are different types of part-time workers claiming welfare:

• systematic short time
• week on / off
• casual

Nothingbetter2d

the problem is cutting dole isn't only going to make people's lives even more difficult.......crime will skyrocket.... riots will eventually ensue

the only way we can sort this is if jobs are created to get people off the dole.

then for long time dole recipients (2 years +) make them get off their asses and take jobs.

its kinda like the chicken or the egg in this country.

the gov complain there is too many on the dole but they don't provide jobs to get us off the dole.

Jesus Wept

RichardAnd wrote: »

As someone above mentioned, we spend about 2/3s of our income on welfare alone.
.

38% according to this?


http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Estimates%20Budget%202011.pdf

Ah ok, I see you mean 2/3 of our income and not 2/3 of our spend.

So we spend 2/3 of our income on social protection, about 1/2 our income on Health, etc etc and it all adds up to 180% or something.

Where does public sector pay fit into the above graph?

Count Dooku

The-Rigger wrote: »

38% according to this?

More likely 65%, because most of state spending on health is covering medical card holders, while significant part of private sector workers are paying themselves for medical services in addition to subsidizing free healthcare for others

The-Rigger wrote: »

Where does public sector pay fit into the above graph?

education, health, justice and others

MagicSean

Count Dooku wrote: »

More likely 65%, because most of state spending on health is covering medical card holders, while significant part of private sector workers are paying themselves for medical services in addition to subsidizing free healthcare for others

Do public sector workers get free health care now?

Count Dooku

k_mac wrote: »

Do public sector workers get free health care now?

No
They just charge a fortune for it

MagicSean

Count Dooku wrote: »

No
They just charge a fortune for it

What does that even mean? I have to pay for my prescriptions just like anyone else.

TonyMac

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the problem is cutting dole isn't only going to make people's lives even more difficult

The time to cut the dole was 2007. If it has to be done now (and it I agree that it HAS to be done) then it must happen in concert with reductions in public service pay levels and tax increases.
Further the moralistic and tedious waffle about 'dependency' is moronic. As in only a moron would believe it.

70% of those on the dole were not on the dole 3 years ago.

whelan1

alot ofr people on the dole are alot better off than those WHO ARE WORKING ,WITH RENT ALLOWANCE ETC... I AM SELF EMPLOYED AND WE HAVE IT EVEN HARDER , BELIEVE ME

dan_d

Since we're trying to outdo each other, I'm on the dole and it's s"*te, trust me. 188eur a week and doing your head in all day worrying about trying to get a job?? Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Question however - statistics regarding the true number on the dole are....vague. They're not incorrect as such (the Live Register),but I'm strongly of the opinion that they are a false representation of what's going on out here. We all know they don't include those who were self-employed and went under, those who were means tested and don't receive welfare, those who are on BTEA schemes and so aren't included...etc,etc,etc.

With the Census now taking place, will we be able to see the true figures for the level of employment/unemployment in the country? Do those figures get published? The questions are quite specific and narrow things down quite well. Does anyone know if we'll see these numbers or if the Gov use them? Because as far as I can see they are the closest thing we'll get to a true reading of the unemployment level.

RichardAnd

dan_d wrote: »

With the Census now taking place, will we be able to see the true figures for the level of employment/unemployment in the country? Do those figures get published? The questions are quite specific and narrow things down quite well. Does anyone know if we'll see these numbers or if the Gov use them? Because as far as I can see they are the closest thing we'll get to a true reading of the unemployment level.

I could be wrong but are census results not kept semi-secret for 100 years? I seem to recall the National Library having an event to showcase census records from 1910 that had just become available for public access. Some care to correct me here to back me up?

Cool Mo D

RichardAnd wrote: »

I could be wrong but are census results not kept semi-secret for 100 years? I seem to recall the National Library having an event to showcase census records from 1910 that had just become available for public access. Some care to correct me here to back me up?

No they are not. The individual census forms are secret, as the census is supposed to be anonymous, but the data is not.
Otherwise there would not be much point in doing one.

dan_d

So...anyone know if there'll be "proper" statistics compiled to indicate the true level of unemployment, and whether they'll be made public??

gurramok

dan_d wrote: »

So...anyone know if there'll be "proper" statistics compiled to indicate the true level of unemployment, and whether they'll be made public??

You will be depending on honest individual filling out of the census forms. It really needs a govt department to release the stats of how many is getting what. We do not even know how many of the OPFP recipients are also getting
Rent Supplement.

About 1bn+ is spent on OPFP payments alone along with the 500m+ in Rent Supplement along with the various other payments.

The level of adults in employment has been consistently falling, that may give a 'true level' of unemployment.

recedite

What do people think of the idea to replace social welfare with a citizen's Basic Income?
The advantage is that there is the same incentive for all to go out and work; in order to top up the basic income which is equivalent to jobseekers allowance.
It has been costed and income tax needs to be @ 50%, but on the plus side, some of that goes straight back into your own pocket.
Basically, everyone gets something back from the system.
Only those who put in the extra effort get the extra rewards.