McMansion Eyesores

Clareboy

There is an interesting letter in this weeks Clare Champion letters page entitled ' McMansion Eyesores'. It is from an Australian visitor who has spent some time in County Clare. She was impressed by the friendlinees and hospitality of the people but she was horrified by the ugly mini mansions that have been allowed to blight the our countryside. The letter is well worth reading.

Gregor Samsa

There are some tourists who would like to see us all living in whitewashed thatched cottages, with a pig in the parlour and a ready supply of potatoes instead of furniture.

The average size of a new house in Austraila is 2,200 square feet. In Ireland it's 930. Chances are the author of that piece lives in a house that would put most of ours to shame size wise.

"When you travel, remember that a foreign country is not designed to make you comfortable. It is designed to make its own people comfortable" - Clifton Fadiman

maiden

I read this article and it reminded of this website and book:

http://www.abandonedireland.com/

Check out the Clare mansions!

Clareboy

phutyle wrote: »

There are some tourists who would like to see us all living in whitewashed thatched cottages, with a pig in the parlour and a ready supply of potatoes instead of furniture.

The average size of a new house in Austraila is 2,200 square feet. In Ireland it's 930. Chances are the author of that piece lives in a house that would put most of ours to shame size wise.

"When you travel, remember that a foreign country is not designed to make you comfortable. It is designed to make its own people comfortable" - Clifton Fadiman

In reply, nobody is suggesting that we live in thatched cottages and have a pig in the parlour, but it is to our eternal shame as a nation that we have abandoned our traditional styles of vernacular housing in favour of totally inappropriate imported styles such as Mock Tudor, Georgian, and Colonial.

I now nothing about house sizes in Australia, but in the UK and Europe, people can comfortably live in houses that are hundreds of years old.

As regards Clifton Fadiman's quote, I as an Irish person feel very uncomfortable while travelling around my own country when I see the damage that has been done to our traditional landscapes after decades of uncontrolled ribbon developement and one off housing.

Clareboy

maiden wrote: »

I read this article and it reminded of this website and book:

http://www.abandonedireland.com/

Check out the Clare mansions!

Thanks for the link. Isn't it a crying shame that all those wonderful stone buildings have been left to fall into rack and ruin. Its an awful pity that all those millions of Euros that were sloshing around during the Celtic Tiger years were not used to restore some of those now ruined buildings to their former glory.

CptSternn

Clareboy wrote: »

Thanks for the link. Isn't it a crying shame that all those wonderful stone buildings have been left to fall into rack and ruin. Its an awful pity that all those millions of Euros that were sloshing around during the Celtic Tiger years were not used to restore some of those now ruined buildings to their former glory.

There is a reason for that -

There are even more around Clare than are listed on that website. I know of three in the Scarriff and one day I was talking to some of my mates from the area in a pub about those very structures.

They were all owned by former british military officers and other noble english types with english titles. After the brits left the Republic many were left vacant because of the dark history which was associated with them.

I would think the same might be said for many of the others on that website as well.

Clareboy

The reality was that those now ruined great houses and estates provided good employment in the past for local people. Regardless of the titles that the owners may have had, they beautified the countryside and developed some of the most attractive villages and towns in Ireland. Places such as Adare, Westport, Birr and Killarney were creations of the landed nobility of the 18th and 19th centuries. Here in Clare, we have Dromoland Castle, one of the finest hotels in the world, which was built by the great and noble O' Briens. Places like Dromoland are a very valuable source of tourist revenue that is badly need in the recession ravaged Ireland of today.

Lady Chatterton

Clareboy wrote: »

There is an interesting letter in this weeks Clare Champion letters page entitled ' McMansion Eyesores'. It is from an Australian visitor who has spent some time in County Clare. She was impressed by the friendlinees and hospitality of the people but she was horrified by the ugly mini mansions that have been allowed to blight the our countryside. The letter is well worth reading.

Here is the "McMansion eyesore" letter written by Marianne Teape-Davis , Sydney, Australia which appeared in the Clare Champions Letter page on March 18, 2011.

Sir - I have recently returned from a much-anticipated trip to Ireland, where I stayed with family in Clare and also visited Dublin.

I am writing to tell you firstly what a joyous holiday I spent. The suns shone nearly all of the time that I spent in Clare that even surprised my Irish relatives and the time I spent in Tulla, Ennis and Lahinch was truly wonderful.

The countryside was so lush and spectacular, the food was quite delicious and I was so impressed with the fact that so much of what we enjoyed was locally produced.

By far the most enjoyable part of my holiday, however, was the people I met. I am biased as far as my family is concerned, but the greetings from local people was uniformly warm and friendly. They were truly welcoming, very interested in my impressions of Ireland and every conversation ended with me being told that I was very welcome to return in spring/summer or autumn when they assured me, the countryside would be even more spectacular. This I found hard to believe as it was also so beautiful.

The kindness and welcome continued when we visited Dublin, which I found most impressive, as in most large European cities people are too busy and stressed to even be civil, let alone as charming and loquacious as they undoubtedly were.

However, one aspect of my visit was very dismaying. The landscape and the absolute dearth of ancient buildings. All that I saw were beautiful old farmhouses and out-buildings crumbling into the landscape and in their place huge, ugly, modern edifices - houses built of a uniform grey concrete and stone, resembling nothing so much as prison out-buildings, that are a very jarring note in the picturesque surroundings.
The large and beautiful old houses I had seen illustrated in books have completely disappeared with only sometimes, an ornamental gate left to view.

Whilst I appreciate the painful past that some of these buildings may represent, they should not be 'air brushed' out of history. Every country in Europe has painful memories of conflict but they nevertheless, take pride in their antiquities. The land is, after all, not a possession but a legacy for future generations and I am very much afraid that in a few years, there will be no buildings left in Ireland to enjoy and venerate - just a collection of hideous monuments, representing greed and a total absence of taste.

May I then, respectfully request whilst conceeding the perfect right of a homeowner to build whatsoever they choose on their own land, that the 'McMansion' owners protect the delicate sensibilities of the rest of us and in the interests of minimising visual pollution, kindly plant fast-growing hedges of a corpse of trees in front of their travesties to screen them from our scornful gaze.

Marianne Teape-David, Sydney, Australia

Clareboy

Thanks Mrs007 for posting the ' McMansion Eyesore' letter from the Clare Champion. It just goes to show what some tourists really think of Ireland.

Lady Chatterton

Clareboy wrote: »

The reality was that those now ruined great houses and estates provided good employment in the past for local people. Regardless of the titles that the owners may have had, they beautified the countryside and developed some of the most attractive villages and towns in Ireland. Places such as Adare, Westport, Birr and Killarney were creations of the landed nobility of the 18th and 19th centuries. Here in Clare, we have Dromoland Castle, one of the finest hotels in the world, which was built by the great and noble O' Briens. Places like Dromoland are a very valuable source of tourist revenue that is badly need in the recession ravaged Ireland of today.

I agree that many of our Great Irish Mansions did provide employment, I'm not sure all of it was good though. They were the big factories of their time. Dromoland Castle, like Clonalis House in Roscommon were slightly different as they were "Irish Houses". The O'Briens of Dromoland descended from the first High King of Ireland - Brian Boru. In the case of Clonalis, the O'Conor family are direct descendants of the last High Kings of Ireland who were also the traditional kings of Connacht.

Lady Chatterton

maiden wrote: »

I read this article and it reminded of this website and book:

http://www.abandonedireland.com/

Check out the Clare mansions!

Maiden, Do you know where the "Secret Turrett" is located? Is it the turrett at the back of the Bishops Palace in Westbourne? Thanks, Mrs D

Clareman

If I am reading that letter correctly the writer is complaining about the lack of "ancient" buildings around the place, ignoring all the obviously restored buildings (Craggaunowen, Dromoland, Bunratty), ancient places open to the public (Friary, oldest pub in Ireland, Cliff's of Moher look out) and places on sides of the road (lookout at Dromoland, Dolmans, Castle at Cratloe), what is the writer looking for?

If she's looking for old colonial buildings, Clare was never that lavish with British buildings, but the Courthouse in Ennis is a fantastic example of 1, the Irish Civil war saw most garrison buildings destroyed (Coole House for example). Most schools would be around 100 years old, Flannan's in Ennis is almost 125 years old, the Colaiste is celebrating their 125th anniversary this year, I don't know what the writer is talking about.

Lady Chatterton

Clareman wrote: »

If I am reading that letter correctly the writer is complaining about the lack of "ancient" buildings around the place.

Clareman, I think she is not happy with the "new mansions" that are being built in Ireland and she thinks they are all vulgar, she might have a point about some of them. However, we are now living in 2011, it is not appropriate for us to recreate faux Georgian or Victorian houses, we need to build for the times we live in.

Clareman

Going out the Tulla or Lahinch Road of Ennis you will see a lot of big once off houses I guess, as my mother says the houses are getting bigger while the families are getting smaller. I think the planning direction was to stop once off houses and encourage estates, it's easier get permission for 20 houses than it is for 1.

Clareboy

Clareman wrote: »

If I am reading that letter correctly the writer is complaining about the lack of "ancient" buildings around the place, ignoring all the obviously restored buildings (Craggaunowen, Dromoland, Bunratty), ancient places open to the public (Friary, oldest pub in Ireland, Cliff's of Moher look out) and places on sides of the road (lookout at Dromoland, Dolmans, Castle at Cratloe), what is the writer looking for?

If she's looking for old colonial buildings, Clare was never that lavish with British buildings, but the Courthouse in Ennis is a fantastic example of 1, the Irish Civil war saw most garrison buildings destroyed (Coole House for example). Most schools would be around 100 years old, Flannan's in Ennis is almost 125 years old, the Colaiste is celebrating their 125th anniversary this year, I don't know what the writer is talking about.

Maybe the word ' ancient' is not the correct term for Australian tourist to use, but I think that she is referring to the almost total absence of traditional cottages and farmhouses in the countryside. Visitors who wish to see traditiional Irish cottages and an authentic Irish village will have to visit an ' architectural zoo' such as Bunratty Folk Park and pay well for the privilege.

Lady Chatterton

Clareboy, I feel that we have to build our houses to suit our current lifestyle, the reduction in farmhouses is obviously down to the fact few people are not relying on agriculture for a living.

flutered

this to me is a very interesting thread, the real reason that these type of house is no longer standing are firstly the last colonial owners raped the lands, all the wood in the north munster estates was sold to mc mahons in limerick, the interiors ended up in mediteranian countrys, when they were sold on to some irish owners a lot of whom earned their money in england, they had to be demolished due to the ratable valueation, they could not afford to let them stay standing, aside from the rates issue the upkeep of them was horrendous, then the old country cottages, mostly they were just two room hovels, damp and rat infested, people were more than glad to see the back of them, also in my area there was a hatred towards them and their owners, the workers were no more that slaves, also women did not marry until they were pregnent, other wise the land lord when hearing of a pending marriage demanded and had first use of the misfortunate female, i am hoping this will shed a little light on the issue.

filthymcnasty

My uncle lived on the family farm in an old stone cottage but recently moved to a newly built 3 bed bungalow, built up the road from it.

While the old house looks good and blends in with the surroundings he explained it was cheaper to build a new home (as he owned the land) rather than pay to upgrade the older house as it was in pretty bad shape- many have very poor plumbing, heating and electrical systems. No place to raise a family.

While I agree there are many ostenatious OTT homes dotting the Irish country-side, If our Australian friend has ever driven through the western suburbs of Sydney she will be familar with similar monstrosities.

maiden

MrsD007 wrote: »

Maiden, Do you know where the "Secret Turrett" is located? Is it the turrett at the back of the Bishops Palace in Westbourne? Thanks, Mrs D

Yeah thats where it is! You could see it from the opposite side of the river, years ago, but not sure now as its been a long time since my youth hanging aroung the Turrett!

I have posted this before on boards but didnt really get an answer. What is the story behind the old Mansion House in roslevan?? also there is one near the Educate Together school/Cois na habhna on the Gort Rd? I cant seem to find any history on them.
I would love to see a pic of the Roslevan one in its heyday! i have dreamt of winning a lot of money and doing it up! One can dream......

Clareboy

flutered wrote: »

this to me is a very interesting thread, the real reason that these type of house is no longer standing are firstly the last colonial owners raped the lands, all the wood in the north munster estates was sold to mc mahons in limerick, the interiors ended up in mediteranian countrys, when they were sold on to some irish owners a lot of whom earned their money in england, they had to be demolished due to the ratable valueation, they could not afford to let them stay standing, aside from the rates issue the upkeep of them was horrendous, then the old country cottages, mostly they were just two room hovels, damp and rat infested, people were more than glad to see the back of them, also in my area there was a hatred towards them and their owners, the workers were no more that slaves, also women did not marry until they were pregnent, other wise the land lord when hearing of a pending marriage demanded and had first use of the misfortunate female, i am hoping this will shed a little light on the issue.

Unbelievable, I am 60 years of age and both my parents and grandparents worked in the houses of the gentry and the nobility and I never heard of such a practice as landlords demanding the ' first use ' of an unmarried female.

As regards the old damp and rat infested country cottages, any house can be restored and extended by using a bit of imagination.

SBWife

maiden wrote: »

Yeah thats where it is! You could see it from the opposite side of the river, years ago, but not sure now as its been a long time since my youth hanging aroung the Turrett!

I have posted this before on boards but didnt really get an answer. What is the story behind the old Mansion House in roslevan?? also there is one near the Educate Together school/Cois na habhna on the Gort Rd? I cant seem to find any history on them.
I would love to see a pic of the Roslevan one in its heyday! i have dreamt of winning a lot of money and doing it up! One can dream......

Are you sure? I think the turret is the old hellfire club near Donass Falls in Clonlara. He features the nearby Doonass House in the book and I'm pretty sure the turret is the one between it and the river in the woods.

maiden

I could be wrong, its been a long time!

36Degrees

maiden wrote: »

I read this article and it reminded of this website and book:

http://www.abandonedireland.com/

Check out the Clare mansions!

anyone know anything about the 'haunted house' one? where is it, story behind it, etc. No info given about it on the site.

Lady Chatterton

Maiden - Thanks for the memories. You have brought me back to my childhood growing up in Ennis. My Grandad used to take us to swim in the Fergus at the Turret. God, when I think of it now, I wouldn't like any child of mine swimming there but at the time lots of townies went there (and my Grandad was terrific swimmer). I wonder does anyone swim there now. I remember my dad always felt that place was dangerous.

I can't really place the houses that you are referring to in the Gort Road and Roslevan though. The house in the Gort Road, was that the house that "Inland Motors" used as a premises years ago? Any chance you could post pics of the houses in question?

There is also a fine house just at the Quin Road roundabout and it has been lying idle for years, very sad. I believe it is all down to a probate problem.

Lady Chatterton

Clareboy wrote: »

As regards the old damp and rat infested country cottages, any house can be restored and extended by using a bit of imagination.

The problem is that alot of people can't afford to plough money into old houses. My husband's family home was built in the late 1700's/early 1800's and it is a fine house but neither my husband or I have any interest in living in it as it would bankrupt us. I love old houses but the reality is that you need a lot of money to maintain them. The other thing that turns me off is that you need to employ a team of conservation experts if you want to make the slightest of changes to the house.

To be honest, I think modern houses are much more comfortable - better insulation and heating etc.

maiden

"My Grandad used to take us to swim in the Fergus at the Turret. God, when I think of it now, I wouldn't like any child of mine swimming there but at the time lots of townies went there (and my Grandad was terrific swimmer). I wonder does anyone swim there now. I remember my dad always felt that place was dangerous."

Yeah they do my boys included until i found out and put a stop to it very lively!!

"I can't really place the houses that you are referring to in the Gort Road and Roslevan though. The house in the Gort Road, was that the house that "Inland Motors" used as a premises years ago? Any chance you could post pics of the houses in question?"

I have no pics, no history, nothing....sure would like to know more!

''There is also a fine house just at the Quin Road roundabout and it has been lying idle for years, very sad. I believe it is all down to a probate problem.[/QUOTE]''

This is the blue house on the corner? This has been like this for years, I heard it was a probate problem too. Fine looking house

poppyvalley

Clareboy wrote: »

Thanks for the link. Isn't it a crying shame that all those wonderful stone buildings have been left to fall into rack and ruin. Its an awful pity that all those millions of Euros that were sloshing around during the Celtic Tiger years were not used to restore some of those now ruined buildings to their former glory.

I wish
that monstrosity that's blocking our Lady's Hospital on the Gort Rd was completely demolished It is such a beautiful building.( the hospital I mean) Shame the way its covered up!

Lady Chatterton

Are there any plans to actually develop something on the Our Lady's site? I agree it is great building. The HSE were very foolish to sell it and they only got a pittance for it (only a couple million). I think it would have been an ideal site for a state of the art hospital or a third level college.

poppyvalley

MrsD007 wrote: »

. I think it would have been an ideal site for a state of the art hospital or a third level college.

I suppose they were thinking of the cost of doing one of the above. Well it would not cost as much as one of those bloody tribunals

CptSternn

maiden wrote: »

"My Grandad used to take us to swim in the Fergus at the Turret. God, when I think of it now, I wouldn't like any child of mine swimming there but at the time lots of townies went there (and my Grandad was terrific swimmer). I wonder does anyone swim there now. I remember my dad always felt that place was dangerous."

I still go up there on occasion with mates during the summer. It actually is quite dangerous these days - lots of underaged kids in track suits who are not in school drinking and doing other things there pretty much all day every day.

We have to run them off as they always start asking for cans and if we can spare a few euro.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3326953&l=4b52a26ec4&id=567511840

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=178317546840&set=a.178301611840.128676.567511840

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=178317581840&set=a.178301611840.128676.567511840

Nevermind_

MrsD007 wrote: »

Are there any plans to actually develop something on the Our Lady's site? I agree it is great building. The HSE were very foolish to sell it and they only got a pittance for it (only a couple million). I think it would have been an ideal site for a state of the art hospital or a third level college.

They got close to 5 million for it, hardly a pittance, you wouldnt get anywhere near half that for it today.

the place is a shell, there was planning lodged / granted on it for a large 4 star hotel, but its unlikely to ever happen at this stage. I've heard it said around that it is going into NAMA. So god only knows what will happen to it.
It costs so much more to renovate/convert an existing historical building than build a new hotel.

Also i never thought of it as the most aesthetically pleasing building, it looks very industrial and has a very eerie feel about the place.
i have a feeling its going to be derelict for quite a while unfortunately.

Lady Chatterton

Nevermind_ wrote: »

They got close to 5 million for it, hardly a pittance, you wouldnt get anywhere near half that for it today.

They actually got 2.44 million Irish pounds for it back in 2001. It was a very bad deal IMO at a time. What is more annoying is that the HSE have been paying huge rents for office space all over Ennis when they could have retained a small part of the Our Lady's site and built one large office space similiar to the new County Council Office. Instead they have people going to Sandfield, Tobartaoscain, Bindon Street, St. Joseph's and Francis Street to access services such as disability aids and medical cards etc.

I agree that unfortunately it could be a long time before we see anything on the site.

Nevermind_

MrsD007 wrote: »

They actually got 2.44 million Irish pounds for it back in 2001. It was a very bad deal IMO at a time.

Thats correct they sold it to Shannon Development and the council in a sweetheart deal (2 government agencies) who built the technology campus behind.
There was talk of a third level institution or moving the council offices there.
However it was then sold on in 2004/5 to developers (Fitzgibbon) and a hotelier (alan flynn of the old ground ) for nearly 5 million euro.
The planning application is probably viewable on the clarecoco website. I.m nearly sure it was granted at the time.
It was definitely sold on at public auction though after the initial sale, the clare champion archives if they were/are online would confirm this.

Lady Chatterton

I'm not big in to mass myself but on this weekend last year the church on the grounds of Our Lady's Hospital held its last ever mass. I believe alot of older people living in the Gort Road/Ballyalla area were very upset about its closure as they were attending the church for years (some of them since the 1940's) and it saved them from having to travel to Barefield for mass.

Shapey Fiend

From what I heard Our Ladies was in an incredibly bad state when they sold it. Pateints had been peeing into the walls and all the interiors had rotten away. The new building behind it probably cost less to build than fixing up the old building.

Talk to any engineers and they'll tell you only buy/restore an old building if you have money to burn. You're going to run into all sorts of unforseen problems, it's going to take longer than building from scratch and there will be higher maintenance costs.

A lot of people in the last 10 years were buying for investment (however misguided) so building a modern faux-monstrosity was probably the safer bet, or certainly cheaper anyway. To have an old building you've really got to have a passion for it and/or be prepared to live with all the compromises. It's a sad situation but most of these larger older homes only exist because the British had a lot of money and staff/labour was nearly free. It's hard to make these things work in the modern day.