Working class have less kids!

mecanoman

Just wondering if its true, i'v bein recently talking to friends who are in their mid 30's and they realise that they can't afford to have kids.
Between the mortgage, bills and in a lot of cases been unemployed.

Now i wonder how do thoses on the social, or non nationals who seem to have lots of kids can afford to do it.

Is it a case of the social welfare been that good and paying for the house and their kids too. Its hardly that good though is it. Maybe i didn't fill in the right forms or claim properly!

I have two kids under five and was umemployed for a year, just back working thank god! But its tough going managing the bills all the same.

I feel sorry for those who caught in the trap of paying for every one and now can't afford to have any children of their own.

Craebear

Some of the working class I see around here are too dumb to realise they can't afford kids, hence the women are like assembly lines.

steddyeddy

Craebear wrote: »

Some of the working class I see around here are too dumb to realise they can't afford kids, hence the women are like assembly lines.

some of the middle class are too dumb to realize they cant raise kids!

ScumLord

Everybody can afford kids, they only cost as much as you have.

phasers

A lot of the scumbags from around here are having tons of kids to get a better house from the coincil and get extra dole/child benefit, the average family has 4 kids.

sollar

The chronically work shy have the most kids where i'm from.

Saila

people in general have less kids these days..period.

2 or 3 tops is the norm
its not helped by working mothers and a people willing to pay two mortgages to get on the ladder, everyone wants to OWN a house, its mad.

Azureus

From what I've noticed its the middle classes who pay bills and work hard who realise they cant afford to bring up children therefore put it off. The work-shy just scam off the social and pop em out like crazy to get a bigger council house. Its the way up in life for some people it seems.

bonerm

Governments are loving this too as they need people at the bottom in greater numbers than they need so-called skilled people. If it leads to a certain % of professional scroungers then so-be-it appears to be the conclusion.

chillywilly

"Working class" oh the irony.

Dionysus

There are schools in Ireland where the heroes of the kids are the local gangs like the Westies. Their banter is about the latest deeds of said gangs and they slag each other off based on this.

In a very large number of these cases, one only has to meet the parents to realise that the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. There is a large number of people in areas of this society who are, by any standards, unfit to raise children.

Instead of having kids at 16 or 17 hoping welfare will give them money, they need an incentive to not have kids until they've got a qualification of some sort, or at the very least given up their alcohol/drug addiction. But, of course, we cannot interfere with their personal lives - so how about we cut all state payments to them until they have achieved qualifications of some sort?

My name is URL

I don't have any kids.. I must be a billionaire =/

My name is URL

Domo230 wrote: »

Ive noticed it the other way round too. Working class have larger families.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic-economic_paradox

steddyeddy

Just to point out something here people with no intention of working and who intend to scrounge are not the working class!

syklops

The OP should have started off the thread defining what "working class" is, because in Ireland it is a very difficult thing to classify, because we dont have a class system.

OP, what do you call working class?

TanG411

I'm noticing a link between some Boards posters and their views on the working class:

- Knackers
- Scumbags
- Dumb
- Chronically work shy

As a person who grew up from a working class background, I can honestly say that some of you haven't a clue about social class. Working class does not mean they are dole cheaters, put off work, or any of that.

For the first time on Boards, I feel really offended. Hmm.

What makes the middle or upper class any better? Its not like they live perfect lives either. No doubt many of them have a skeleton in the closet.

If you knew any working class families, you will know that many do not succumb to greed. They are genuinely nice people, real down-to-earth. Unlike a few middle class snobs I've seen in college, thinking they are a God's gift.

steddyeddy

DerangedDreamer wrote: »

I'm noticing a link between some Boards posters and their views on the working class:

- Knackers
- Scumbags
- Dumb
- Chronically work shy

As a person who grew up from a working class background, I can honestly say that some of you haven't a clue about social class. Working class does not mean they are dole cheaters, put off work, or any of that.

For the first time on Boards, I feel really offended. Hmm.

What makes the middle or upper class any better? Its not like they live perfect lives either. No doubt many of them have a skeleton in the closet.

If you knew any working class families, you will know that many do not succumb to greed. They are genuinely nice people, real down-to-earth. Unlike a few middle class snobs I've seen in college, thinking they are a God's gift.

Im from a working class background but im not offended, just bewildered at the level of stupidity expressed on the subject. Some people seem to think that a persons wealth level dictates intelligence.

Oranage2

I think that there's a 'Welfare class' now that people mistake for working class -

Before working class people use to be people that worked in a trade or a low paid low skilled job like factory work for example.

Nowadays people in these low skilled jobs, are respectable people, they can consider them selves working class without the stigma that use to be associated with the term.

- people that pop out kids and and claim dole all their lives shouldnt be allowed consider themselves 'working class' they don't work, so they should be considered "welfare Class"

syklops

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think that there's a 'Welfare class' now that people mistake for working class -

Before working class people use to be people that worked in a trade or a low paid low skilled job like factory work for example.

Nowadays people in these low skilled jobs, are respectable people, they can consider them selves working class without the stigma that use to be associated with the term.

- people that pop out kids and and claim dole all their lives shouldnt be allowed consider themselves 'working class' they don't work, so they should be considered "welfare Class"

That was kind of my point. For a long time, working class == trades-persons == low paid. However in recent years, I know more than a couple of plasterers and carpenters e.g. tradespeople owning S-class mercs, and holiday homes in Croatia. The class system is on its head and as a result it is very difficult to make any kind of a generalisation without offending someone.

For me, working class equates to Jim Royle, e.g. works, earns, albeit not a lot, has a house and a couple of kids. Social Class equates to Frank Gallagher out of Shameless, e.g. does not work, drinks, smokes and shags agoraphobic housewives. If we are going to have this conversation, we need to define the labels, before we start using them.

gurramok

All those kids are needed to help pay off the National Debt when they grow up. Just frigging hope they turn out to be of the 'desire to be working kind'

phasers

there are no actual social classes in ireland, this is where the confusion comes from.

The op asked how people on the dole could afford to have so many kids , so people answered. Don't get your knickers in a knot.

mecanoman

syklops wrote: »

The OP should have started off the thread defining what "working class" is, because in Ireland it is a very difficult thing to classify, because we dont have a class system.

OP, what do you call working class?

Honestly folks i meant "Working Class" as in Workers which i believe i'm from.

Father was a mechanic, Mother worked in a clothing factory.

Worked myself in low paid jobs, done a year in college, back working now luckly enough.

My main question is about how people i see struggling in our recession, few of my friends seem to have put their lives on hold.

They now can't afford kids as they put it. Yet others don't seem to care.

steddyeddy

mecanoman wrote: »

Honestly folks i meant "Working Class" which i believe i'm from.

Father was a mechanic, Mother worked in a clothing factory.

Worked myself in low paid jobs, done a year in college, back working now luckly enough.

My main question is about how people i see struggling in our recession, few of my friends seem to have put their lives on hold.

They now can't afford kids as they put it. Yet others don't seem to care.

Well working class isnt the social welfare class

PrincessLola

Eh.. I know two people with six kids and they're both doctors or something.
In fact all the 'working class' people I know have three kids or less.

ejmaztec

sollar wrote: »

The chronically work shy have the most kids where i'm from.

That's because they get up to watch Jeremy Kyle, get a few hints from his knuckle-dragging studio guests, then go back to bed to get started on some serious procreation, and their ultimate ambition is to appear in a future episode.

magentas

people I see that have a trailer load of kids are "welfare class" because it appears to be a lucrative business for them

previous user

In Britain I think they refer to the scum who breed like rats
and don't work as Subclass, my neighbour would fall into this category.

Mister men

phasers wrote: »

A lot of the scumbags from around here are having tons of kids to get a better house from the coincil and get extra dole/child benefit, the average family has 4 kids.

I've heard this line wheeled out again and again and tbh it's complete claptrap.

gurramok

Mister men wrote: »

I've heard this line wheeled out again and again and tbh it's complete claptrap.

How?

The more kids you have the more chance you have of getting that gaff aka house(not apt). Its well known fact where i'm from. Councils grant accommodation based on family size.

Mike 1972

syklops wrote: »

The OP should have started off the thread defining what "working class" is, because in Ireland it is a very difficult thing to classify, because we dont have a class system.

Are you sure ?

While I agree the terms "working class" and "middle class" have become meaninglessly obsolete Its a bit of a stretch to suggest we live in a classless society

Ever heard of the golden circle ?

sollar

DerangedDreamer wrote: »

I'm noticing a link between some Boards posters and their views on the working class:

- Knackers
- Scumbags
- Dumb
- Chronically work shy

As a person who grew up from a working class background, I can honestly say that some of you haven't a clue about social class. Working class does not mean they are dole cheaters, put off work, or any of that.

For the first time on Boards, I feel really offended. Hmm.

What makes the middle or upper class any better? Its not like they live perfect lives either. No doubt many of them have a skeleton in the closet.

If you knew any working class families, you will know that many do not succumb to greed. They are genuinely nice people, real down-to-earth. Unlike a few middle class snobs I've seen in college, thinking they are a God's gift.

I'm the poster who used the term chronically work shy above. I'm working class too so that is not a slight against the working classes its a slight on the chronically work shy.

I have no resepct for the cradle to the grave welfarians.

whatdoicare

The future! It's already a film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo

Also, I too have noticed the trend towards those working that are holding off having kids or maybe stopping at one and those who couldn't care less popping them out on an almost yearly basis!

syklops

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are you sure ?

While I agree the terms "working class" and "middle class" have become meaninglessly obsolete Its a bit of a stretch to suggest we live in a classless society

Ever heard of the golden circle ?

FFS. The term "The Golden Circle" was coined by one of the rags, I am not sure which one.

The "Golden Circle" are not a class, they just happen to have money. You are associating classes with amounts of money, and the original point I made was that that association no longer applies.

I know men who left school at 11 and who dont eat with a knife and fork, but who inherited land when it was worth f**k all, and sold it recently to become multi-millionaires. I also know a man who came from a rich and affluent family who ended up living beneath a bridge. where is the 'class' for each of these men?

Spudmonkey

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think that there's a 'Welfare class' now that people mistake for working class -

Before working class people use to be people that worked in a trade or a low paid low skilled job like factory work for example.

+1 to this post. There are people in what used be termed working class estates which are actually welfare black spots.

K-9

It tends to be minority cases though people focus on them.

I know a couple who planned a child on SW and seriously, wtf? The yearning for a child should not over come the fact you are on SW!

What's the solution to that, barring the snip for all Welfare claimants, I don't know!



The key is education. Teenage pregnancies are dropping despite appearances, so the message does get through, eventually!

Agonist

The middle class, meaning the professional class, have fewer kids because private school fees, music lessons, grinds etc. mean that their children are a huge expense. For ordinary working people children are easier to fund so they have more of them.

stevejr

Sure sterilize everyone so and let god sort them out.

A lot of people are professionals who have lost thier jobs.

Don't tar everyone with your small-minded stupid generalisation-brush.

stevejr

The smugness and bile on this thread is ****ing sickening.

ScumLord

I thought working class and middle class were the same thing?

Mike 1972

syklops wrote: »

The "Golden Circle" are not a class, they just happen to have money.

And connections

syklops wrote: »

I know men who left school at 11 and who dont eat with a knife and fork, but who inherited land when it was worth f**k all, and sold it recently to become multi-millionaires. I also know a man who came from a rich and affluent family who ended up living beneath a bridge. where is the 'class' for each of these men?

How does knowing two people who happen to constitute an exception to a rule diminish the validity of such a rule.

Truth the vast majority of rich people come from rich families and the vast majority of poor people come from poor families and it has always been so.

mickydoomsux

The "classes" as they were have shifted in the past 10-20 years.

A lot of this has to do with the fact that the working class from the 80s and 90s have made their money and are now considered middle class. The new working class barely exist because we have little or no manufactuering industry (traditionally roles that were considered working class) and our low paid jobs are usually filled by non-nationals (the Irish still have the idea that they are too good for minimum wage).

The people who would have been the Irish working class a couple of decades ago are now the welfare class because our welfare system is far too generous and it has replaced work for a lot of people. You can get a free house, free travel, free money and pretty much a free pass to commit petty crime if you just decide you want to be a cradle to grave welfare-ite. have a few kids on top of that and your situation will only improve. You couldn't survive for long on the dole back in the 80s so people had to go out and get "working class" jobs.

ejmaztec

ScumLord wrote: »

I thought working class and middle class were the same thing?

They're basically the same, but the middle class owes more money.

steddyeddy

Mike 1972 wrote: »

And connections


How does knowing two people who happen to constitute an exception to a rule diminish the validity of such a rule.

Truth the vast majority of rich people come from rich families and the vast majority of poor people come from poor families and it has always been so.

Rule??????

Dudess

Despite what the worldly experts between the ages of 18 and 25 think, life isn't mapped out perfectly - plans don't always work out. "Don't have kids until you can afford them" can be sneered til the cows come home, but one of the reasons we're here is to procreate, and some people would love to have a family and it can't be put off forever. Sure, it would be irresponsible to have five or six kids when you're struggling financially, but two kids? Someone who doesn't have a great deal of money coming in but who would dearly love a family so has two children does not deserve such vitriol.

foxy06

If we put off kids til we could afford them 90% of us wouldn't have any! I have 4 and had 4 because I wanted them. Wouldn't have it any other way. Have to take a year off work to look after them so I sold my car to save a bit of money and made cut backs in other areas and life goes on. Didn't see the point in putting off what I really wanted when I could make it work without losing out.

The Longfellow

I thought for a minute that the title of this thread was an order and we were about to see the relaunch of Eugenics here on this humble little board. But no...

Unpossible

The Longfellow wrote: »

I thought for a minute that the title of this thread was an order and we were about to see the relaunch of Eugenics here on this humble little board. But no...

I thought we were going to be presented with some statistic showing lower income families having less children than higher income families