Independent Colleges - Diploma in Financial Trading

yobr

http://www.independentcolleges.ie/faculty-of-business/diploma-in-financial-trading

I heard an ad on Newstalk this morning for the Diploma in Financial Trading in Independent College. I wonder does any one else have any thoughts on this course or about the college itself?

ixus

You need to find out who is actually teaching i.e. are they a traders themselves and do they have a proven track record?

If it's someone like Marc Coleman then you're better off burning your money.

The Syllabus looks fine.

mono627

Syllabus is grand, but nothing really on there that you can't teach yourself tbh. Better off spending some of that money on a few trading books (see the sticky for a list).

Just a quick note that a course like this isn't just a "get rich quick" course. I'm sure Ixus will vouch that trading is a long hard path to take and it will test you as a person every step of the way! Best of luck!

yobr

ixus wrote: »

You need to find out who is actually teaching i.e. are they a traders themselves and do they have a proven track record?

If it's someone like Marc Coleman then you're better off burning your money.

The Syllabus looks fine.

Thanks for that, I'll ask that question....

mono627 wrote: »

Syllabus is grand, but nothing really on there that you can't teach yourself tbh. Better off spending some of that money on a few trading books (see the sticky for a list).

Just a quick note that a course like this isn't just a "get rich quick" course. I'm sure Ixus will vouch that trading is a long hard path to take and it will test you as a person every step of the way! Best of luck!

I have bought some books off amazon recently (to add to my collection) but was wondering how easy stuff like charting (or the stuff on the course syllabus) is to learn by yourself?

mono627

yobr wrote: »

I have bought some books off amazon recently (to add to my collection) but was wondering how easy stuff like charting (or the stuff on the course syllabus) is to learn by yourself?

Plenty of good places on the net to start. Informed trades isn't a bad place to learn some technical analysis. Check out their video tutorials.

woozyeyes

yobr wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'll ask that question....



I have bought some books off amazon recently (to add to my collection) but was wondering how easy stuff like charting (or the stuff on the course syllabus) is to learn by yourself?

I rang the college to ask who is taking the course. There will be 3 lecturers in total. Barry McCarthy, Niall Ryan and Charlie Ellis. The receptionist said they are all professional traders but other than that I dont know anything about them or their crudentials. I will google their profiles after work later. I would be concerned that they are lecturing rather than trading. If anyone knows anthing about them could they post it or PM me.

On the other hand I have no backround in business, finance etc.. and have read of couple of books and looked at alot of websites/online tutorials and still would feel more confident getting some instructions from experienced people. There is so much info available for free or in cheaply priced books but it is hard for me to filter what is relevent and what is not. Even knowing where to start researching can be daunting to a beginner.

SBWife

Charlie Ellis from Greenwich Associates has a great reputation - but I'll wager he's flying over to teach one session and there'll be very little contact.

Niall Ryan looks like he has a couple of years private client experience locally but now runs a financial training firm...nothing to write home about but if you're very green there's probably something he can pass along.

yobr

woozyeyes wrote: »

I will google their profiles after work later. I would be concerned that they are lecturing rather than trading. If anyone knows anthing about them could they post it or PM me.

I'm going to do the same thing and might pm you later..

ixus

woozyeyes wrote: »

I rang the college to ask who is taking the course. There will be 3 lecturers in total. Barry McCarthy, Niall Ryan and Charlie Ellis.

Ok, I know two of these guys. It's not the Charlie Ellis from Greenwich. Barry and Charlie have extensive experience in trading and coaching traders. I don't know Niall.

I don't really want to comment/endorse further as it's a significant sum to invest for any individual. I'll just say, they know their stuff.

MacStacked

I had heard about this course.

I worked with Barry previously and he is a hugely talented trader, who can explain trading concepts very well. Has had some terrific trading runs and has traded in offices all over the world. A very nice guy. Have met Charlie once or twice, I think, can't say I know him well but I know his experience is significant.

Mr. Loverman

Anyone go to this last night?

First impressions?

yobr

ixus wrote: »

Ok, I know two of these guys. It's not the Charlie Ellis from Greenwich. Barry and Charlie have extensive experience in trading and coaching traders. I don't know Niall.

I don't really want to comment/endorse further as it's a significant sum to invest for any individual. I'll just say, they know their stuff.

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Anyone go to this last night?

First impressions?

Yes, I signed on and went along. As Ixus had said they do know their stuff. It's early days and I'm a beginner but the guys seem to have buckets of experience and really seem to know their stuff. Their style of presenting was relaxed and shared topics between each other..I'm really looking forward to the rest of the course. They did mention that they will also be running it on Tuesday nights too....

royaler83

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Anyone go to this last night?

First impressions?

Yea was happy with it too. Really looking forward to tomorrow night, the more info they can pass on the better. The 3 lads are fairly experienced day traders and set up there own company to teach others to avoid the pitfalls that they have experienced.

Artie

How is this course progressing? Useful? Any remarks?

drdoon

Thinling about doing the Course. Any updates on this course guys. The cost is now €1250, says €950 on website but as Dublin Business school involved price has increased. Any info on how people have got on with trading since this thread in 2008. Cheers guys

alejandro1977

drdoon wrote: »

Thinling about doing the Course. Any updates on this course guys. The cost is now €1250, says €950 on website but as Dublin Business school involved price has increased. Any info on how people have got on with trading since this thread in 2008. Cheers guys

Have you mixed up Independent College and Dublin BS? 2008?

It says 795 on link above and no mention of Dublin Business School?

I understand that the lecturers are active full-time futures traders (Using DMA - Eurex), whereas the IIFT guys may not be?

I haven't done either Dipoma FWIW

drdoon

Any updates people!!!

Marcus Halberstam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjN3G2uGlxs


My mate did this course and thought it was very good. Here's a video yer man Barry put up on YouTube and sent out. It's freely available though not sure if it's supposed to be...

suben

Hi, it's Susie in the IIFT. I think you may be thinking of the Diploma in Financial Trading we do in conjunction with Dublin Business School.
We have high profile traders who take our courses, namely our main lecturer Peter Brown (formerly Head of Treasury in Barclays) who is also a financial commentator.
We were the first company in Ireland to offer these courses in financial trading and have taught about 500 traders.
Our lecturers all have proven track records and we have received fantastic feedback from our past students, many of whom keep returning to us and come back for our Trading Days or position rental in our Trading Room. You can find more information about us on www.iift.ie or I'm happy to run through any other questions you have by calling us on 01-6644034, if you'd like more information from past students I can also put you in touch with some of them too!
Best of luck,

bluesteel

suben wrote: »

Hi, it's Susie in the IIFT.

We have high profile traders who take our courses, namely our main lecturer Peter Brown (formerly Head of Treasury in Barclays) who is also a financial commentator.
We were the first company in Ireland to offer these courses in financial trading and have taught about 500 traders.
Our lecturers all have proven track records

Hi Susie,
Thanks for the ad.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I have the distinct impression that Peter Brown has never worked as a professional futures/bond/equity/commodity/option trader in his life? On what exchanges has he or the any other of your lecturers traded?
What is the name of the Hedge/Managed Fund that has given Peter such a "high profile" (I know what treasury is and it ain't trading! )

Claiming you have "about 500 traders" is a little ridiclous - it would be more accurate you've taught "about 500 would be traders". Or perhaps you can provide some figures of how many of the 500 are trading full/part time, or have their account in profit?

I ask these questions as, by comparison, the trading credentials of the Independent Colleges lecturers have been clearly established.


I await your response,
thanks

suben

Hi Bluesteel,

As well as being a highly sought after markets commentator by media outlets, both in Ireland and internationally, Peter's profile (as below) speaks for itself with over 30 years trading experience:
http://www.iift.ie/about/our-people-3/

IIFT and Peter are always prepared to engage with any prospective students at our free monthly seminars or on a one-to-one basis to clarify any queries or issues with regard to the bona fides of our courses and our team.

ixus

I'm sorry but, Peter's profile as linked does not speak for itself. Being a market commentator means nothing. Jim Cramer is a market commentator and he is an idiot. All you have provided is a list of companies Peter has worked in over the last 30 years, not the roles he has undertaken. Was he a trader in any of these companies? Head of treasury is very different to being a head of trading in one of these companies.

Do you see where the issue lies? IIFT could be all it's cracked up to be but, for me, there's little to no indication that there is.

Here's a question; in the FAQ it is suggested to look for 2 to 3% returns. How long does the IIFT envisage it will take someone in their program to cover the cost of the program they undertake with the IIFT?

This goes for any trader mentorship program really, not just the IIFT.

suben wrote: »

Hi Bluesteel,

As well as being a highly sought after markets commentator by media outlets, both in Ireland and internationally, Peter's profile (as below) speaks for itself with over 30 years trading experience:
http://www.iift.ie/about/our-people-3/....

All you've done is competely ignore some very valid questions put to you by bluesteel. Avoidance should raise some serious red flags here. Relying on being a media personality as opposed to clearly declaring ones trading background is grounds for concern.

suben

As I said previously, I am not speaking on behalf of the company but just of my experience of having done the Diploma course.

Peter worked trading Forex in BNP, money market and derivatives trading at Ulster Bank and 10 years trading in Barclays including bonds, futures, FX and derivatives. He was chief dealer in Barclays and head of all trading and corporate customer activity and has been actively trading the markets in his personal capacity.
Due to his extensive knowledge of the markets, it's fair to see why he has such a media profile.

If you have any in depth trading questions about returns, please do call the office and speak to one of the traders who are always happy to field any queries. You can contact through here: http://www.iift.ie/contact/ or by calling 01-6644034

bluesteel

suben wrote: »

As I said previously, I am not speaking on behalf of the company but just of my experience of having done the Diploma course.

Peter worked trading Forex in BNP, money market and derivatives trading at Ulster Bank and 10 years trading in Barclays including bonds, futures, FX and derivatives. He was chief dealer in Barclays and head of all trading and corporate customer activity and has been actively trading the markets in his personal capacity.

That's quite an update from saying he was head of treasury! Did he ever trade a prop book?
Simple Question: On what exchanges does he currently trade? Who is his clearer?

suben wrote: »

Due to his extensive knowledge of the markets, it's fair to see why he has such a media profile.

If you have any in depth trading questions about returns, please do call the office and speak to one of the traders who are always happy to field any queries. You can contact through here: http://www.iift.ie/contact/ or by calling 01-6644034

IMHO the reason he has a high media profile is that he's willing to talk to anyone while at the same time promoting his training business. His comments are usually about as insightful and specific as Russel Grant's. Luckily for Peter most Irish journalists are about as knowledgeable as a ham sandwich when it comes to the markets!

hang on, are these guys traders or lecturers? Are they running a prop desk? Trading their own accounts? On what exchanges?

It as also been pointed out to me that in the UK approval is required for a company styling itself an "Institute"- in other words the name "Institute of Financial Trading" would be illegal In the UK under 'The Company, Limited Liability Partnership and Business Names (Sensitive Words and Expressions) Regulations 2009 (SI No. 2615)'. 
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp1.shtml#appA

Institute
Institution Approval to use this word is normally given only to existing organisations which are carrying out research at the highest level or to professional bodies of the highest standing. These organisations are established in the field but operate under a different name.
You will need to explain why there is a need for the proposed institute or institution and that it has appropriate regulations or examination standards. To support your application you will also need to obtain the views (letter or email) of independent or representative bodies. 

ixus

@Suben, despite what you say, you are actually speaking on behalf of the company when you say you work for them in a marketing capacity. How could you not be?!

The initial questions querying the educators track record are valid. This is something I would expect to be clearly detailed in any prospectus. I think you supplied sufficient background, eventually.

@Bluesteel, Time to lay off on the comments. Your queries have been responded to. The more you go after Suben's comments, the more it appears you have something at stake i.e. are part of the other company.
Your question with respect to the UK legislation are irrelevant really. We're not in the UK.

I'll leave the posts as they are for the time being. If anyone has issue with them, contact me.

For any potential traders out there; fully investigate any company offering to teach you how to trade. Establish the educators background and if you really want to do the course. It's your money.

bluesteel

For the record I have no stake in any other company, nor do I derive any income from teaching trading.

This thread was about Independent Colleges, and suddenly new posters started boosting IIFT. It reflects very poorly on IIFT. I pursued the other comments as I felt my queries were not addressed and the answers further fueled my suspicions.

Obviously we are not in the UK but we look to the UK for much of our market regs, or at least we should. Frankly the fact that Irish regulations regarding naming doesn't prohibit these types of business names is illustrative of the weakness of the regulatory framework here, which I think we can all agree has cost us all dearly.

Leaving aside the legalities, styling your business as an "Institute" is pretentious at best, downright misleading at worst

onestep

To any interested parties
i,ve been reading various comments regarding the IIFT and i felt some issues need to be addressed for the sake of clarification.
I myself completed the advanced course in sept 11 and have not looked back since. prior to this i was trying my level best to trade the markets but all i succeeded in doing was losing money.I realised I was at a crossroads and either I stopped trading or i got an education, I chose the latter .Very soon into the course one starts to see things differently and start to realise that without training you are doomed.How many professions do you know of where you can jump straight in at the deep end without knowledge and training and start working, yet in trading you open an account put money in and start messing with the pros. You are soon eaten alive.
Ironically trading is simple, it,s the psychology that,s difficult and it is this one must conquer. The course shows you the very simple strategies to employ e.g gap play and pivots amongst others , money management strategies and what targets to achieve. When you complete the course you look forward to the future with much more confidence and vigour. At this moment in time i am making a good living growing my capital 4% per month. This is actually a conservative target but a budding trader must realise that to achieve more you must risk more and this is a dangerous thing to do as you risk destroying your capital.Capital protection is paramount,far more important than what strategies to deploy. Also one should realise that the bigger your capital the quicker you cover the cost of the course i.e growing 100k capital can net you 4k per month but obviously a 10k account will take a year to grow that amount (word of note; if a trader hopes to grow a 10k account into 100k account overnight or within a few weeks he/she is in for a shock, it ain,t gonna happen and you are gauranteed to destroy your account eventually. The idea is to grow your capital steadily,alas trading isn,t a get rich quick scheme,sorry,}
I,ll conclude this paragraph by saying simply to forget about the begrudgers and the naysayers and do yourself a favour and get an education.DO NOT enter these markets without one, you will be destroyed . Take it from someone who knows.
p.s. the advanced course costs 2750euro
secondly i,d like to address those making various comments about Peter Brown and the IIFT. What prop book is he running? who is his clearer?on what exchanges is he operating? Peter trades his own account using a spread betting platform and that,s it, simple.A spreadbetter doesn,t need a prop desk or clearer ,just a platform which is available to anyone. It is also tax free
I have no affiliation whatsoever to the IIFT but feel it,s important to put the truth out there. I,m just an ordinary guy who was lucky enough to come through the otherside unscathed and am happy to share my experience.
Thank you

Liam249

I have been reading the various posts regarding iift. I completed the courses offered by this company in 2010 and 2011 and found them to be excellent. You are given an education regarding spread trading which is essential, without education it is only a matter of time before you lose all money set aside for trading.
I wish to trade on a part time basis and continue to rent a desk space at iift for say a month of two and then say break for a couple of months while carrying out other contract work. i find this facility very good as it allows me tune back into the markets by being around other like minded people.
overall i would recommend people to arrange to call in and check it out for themselves.

bluesteel

Liam249 wrote: »

I have been reading the various posts regarding iift. I completed the courses offered by this company in 2010 and 2011 and found them to be excellent. You are given an education regarding spread trading which is essential, without education it is only a matter of time before you lose all money set aside for trading.
I wish to trade on a part time basis and continue to rent a desk space at iift for say a month of two and then say break for a couple of months while carrying out other contract work. i find this facility very good as it allows me tune back into the markets by being around other like minded people.
overall i would recommend people to arrange to call in and check it out for themselves.

Another poster with 1 post! real coincidence that you found this thread considering you haven't posted before!

How much have you spent on the two courses?
What markets do you trade? What is your style of trading? How much have you made trading? How much does the renting a desk cost? Does that include charts and/or squawk or what news do they provide? Reuters? BBG?

onestep

BLUESTEEL

Ring the IIFT yourself to ascertain the costs , it,s not a state secret, they,ll tell you over the phone.
all styles of trading are taught including day,swing and position .I would class myself as a day trader
an individual trader has his/her own charts courtresy of their spreadbetting platform and they are free.
Squawk again is provided free online without the need of the college
there are TV monitors for all the news you want.
markets they trade? f/x ,indices and commodities ,simple.
how much does a trader make? try and understand that you don,t make a set amount per month ,you aim to grow your capital by 4% permonth so if your capital is 100k then you aim for 4k
your questions are legitimate my friend and so are my answers but you need to chill with the cynicism. the IIFT aren,t out to fleece you they are there to help. I did the course last sept and simple arithmetic will tell you that they ain,t making a fortune providing this service .
if you have anymore questions i,ll answer them honestly for you
p.s. once again i do not have any affiliation with the IIFTwhatsoever and i kindly ask that it,s not suggested otherwise

senna404

hi having done the diploma cource with the iift and started the trading days recently,i cannot recogmend it enough for anyone interested in the markets .having already signed up to various internet cources i found a waste of time what you would learn in one hour at the iift would be better to you than a year on the internet ,reguards alan

alejandro1977

onestep wrote: »

secondly i,d like to address those making various comments about Peter Brown and the IIFT. What prop book is he running? who is his clearer?on what exchanges is he operating? Peter trades his own account using a spread betting platform and that,s it, simple.A spreadbetter doesn,t need a prop desk or clearer ,just a platform which is available to anyone. It is also tax free

I have to say, this thread is cringy.

I'd expect anyone styling himself as a Prop Trader or Professional Trader to be trading a decent amount of size and to be doing so on an exchange, not using a spread betting account.

Peter Brown might be a great teacher, and have great insights but a proper trader trading Equity Indices will most likely be trading futures or options, not punting on IG Index or CMC markets.

My mate spreads DAX/ESX and he laughs out loud every time these guys' ads are on the radio.

Also, if spread betting is your main source of income then it is not necessarily tax free.

Camo22

alejandro1977 wrote: »

I have to say, this thread is cringy.

I'd expect anyone styling himself as a Prop Trader or Professional Trader to be trading a decent amount of size and to be doing so on an exchange, not using a spread betting account.

Peter Brown might be a great teacher, and have great insights but a proper trader trading Equity Indices will most likely be trading futures or options, not punting on IG Index or CMC markets.

My mate spreads DAX/ESX and he laughs out loud every time these guys' ads are on the radio.

Also, if spread betting is your main source of income then it is not necessarily tax free.

I am considering doing this course also. Do you think there is no benefit from learning from a professional. Surely there are people out there making money from spread trading on their own accounts?

Camo22

ixus wrote: »

Ok, I know two of these guys. It's not the Charlie Ellis from Greenwich. Barry and Charlie have extensive experience in trading and coaching traders. I don't know Niall.

I don't really want to comment/endorse further as it's a significant sum to invest for any individual. I'll just say, they know their stuff.

I'd really like to give it a go but I always wonder why these guys are spending their time teaching classes than making all the money they suggest that you can earn...

alejandro1977

Camo22 wrote: »

I am considering doing this course also. Do you think there is no benefit from learning from a professional. Surely there are people out there making money from spread trading on their own accounts?

the point I was making was that what most people would consider "Professional" means having proper office, Trading Software (1k+ a month), Charting (500+ per month), maybe Bloomberg (2k? per month). The lads trading futures in Positive Equity etc. have this, fellas trading using spreadbetting are for the most part part-timers.

When you see a guy on Vincent Browne or RTE news with that title "Professional Trader" you don't expect a guy trading with IG Index from a spare bedroom;

alejandro1977

Camo22 wrote: »

I'd really like to give it a go but I always wonder why these guys are spending their time teaching classes than making all the money they suggest that you can earn...

that's a valid question. That's why you should ask about trading performance. However it's not the be all and end all. Alex Ferguson wasn't much of a player...

I guess some trading teachers spend an evening once a week teaching when the markets are closed anyway, where as some others teach and promote themselves as a 9-5

Camo22

alejandro1977 wrote: »

that's a valid question. That's why you should ask about trading performance. However it's not the be all and end all. Alex Ferguson wasn't much of a player...

I guess some trading teachers spend an evening once a week teaching when the markets are closed anyway, where as some others teach and promote themselves as a 9-5

I went along to a open evening, apparently it started off as a trading club. He teaches the diploma a couple of evenings a week but also teaches live 4 days a week. Traders who have sat the course can rent a desk and learn fromthe traders around them. Peter has 30 years experiance in Barclays. Surely it can't be a scam. They have about 70 trading.
Although i do think its not easy, there is still plently of people making money trading on there own..

Any further thoughts or do you think it's still dodgy.. What would your friend think?

I dont want to spend the money if its not beneficial

alejandro1977

Camo22 wrote: »

I went along to a open evening, apparently it started off as a trading club. He teaches the diploma a couple of evenings a week but also teaches live 4 days a week. Traders who have sat the course can rent a desk and learn fromthe traders around them. Peter has 30 years experiance in Barclays. Surely it can't be a scam. They have about 70 trading.
Although i do think its not easy, there is still plently of people making money trading on there own..

Any further thoughts or do you think it's still dodgy.. What would your friend think?

I dont want to spend the money if its not beneficial

Try and talk to someone in person who has done the course, not the sock puppets on this thread (I guess you are still referring to the IIFT one)

Who told you Peter had 30 years experience? Experience doing what exactly?

Have a look at the market blog and see if he makes any worthwhile insights

http://www.iift.ie/market-new/

arrowloopboy

alejandro1977 wrote: »

the point I was making was that what most people would consider "Professional" means having proper office, Trading Software (1k+ a month), Charting (500+ per month), maybe Bloomberg (2k? per month). The lads trading futures in Positive Equity etc. have this, fellas trading using spreadbetting are for the most part part-timers.

When you see a guy on Vincent Browne or RTE news with that title "Professional Trader" you don't expect a guya spare bedroom;

trading with IG Index from

If you have a decent well researched system theirs nothing wrong with ig index and a dressing gown .