Wrong offence on fixed charge notice.

Crazyivan 1979 · 16-03-2011 10:37am #1

Just looking for a bit of advice on the best course of action.

I was pulled over by a motorcycle gard last week for using my mobile phone whilst driving, I literally answered it to say "can't talk driving" then hung up, but that is beside the point I shouldn't have answered it.

Gard asked for my licence and advised me that if I want to use my phone whilst driving, then get a hands free. fair enough. gave me my licence back and drove off.

Got a fixed charge notice yesterday for failure to wear a seatbelt.

In my opinion it would be foolish to pay the fine and to admit to something that i am not guilty of. I have never driven a car without a seat belt on, it feels weird to me to not be strapped in to the seat.

To me these are my options:

Pay fine (60 euro) get 2 penalty points, for wrong offence.
Ignore it, wait for court summons plead not guilty but admit mobile use. Judge can do what he likes then.

Does anyone have a similar experience? I know I was in the wrong and if the charge notice came with the correct offence there would be no need for this post because it would be paid.

Reloc8 · 16-03-2011 1:23pm

On what you say there is no reason to pay the fixed fine notice.

If you don't pay it, a summons will issue and you can go to court and contest it on the basis that you were wearing your seatbelt. Presuming the garda in question accepts that the summons should be dismissed.

A summons for using your phone should not issue without a fixed fine notice having been sent in respect of that specific offence. If one does you can contest it on the basis of not having received a fixed fine notice. Your mileage in this regard may vary in front of different judges who are by now accustomed to hearing this claim.

That said, it would seem fairly strange for the system to generate a summons for something other than what you received. Are you entirely confident that the notice refers to same time and place ?

Equally, you may actually receive a fixed fine for the phone yet.

Basically, if you were in fact wearing your seatbelt (presuming the notice relates to the same stop), there is no objective reason for you to pay that fixed fine notice.

Crazyivan 1979 · 16-03-2011 4:23pm

Thanks for the reply Reloc.

Yes, all information in the notice (reg. no., time, date and place) are all correct, except the actual offence.

I have spoken to a solicitor, his view is that it has a very high possiblity of being struck out. Having said that, I would not be able to recoup any solicitors fees that I will have incurred. So I am seriously considering doing nothing unil I receive a summons, then defending myself.

With regard to the actual offence comitted, the solicitor informed me that they will be unable to prosecute after 6 months from the date of the offence. So according to the notice I have 56 days (2 months) before they will send out a summons. Then who knows how long before the hearing, then they have to send out another notice. I suppose it could take 6 months.

Kosseegan · 16-03-2011 4:57pm

This is something that would have to be handled very carefully to get a strike out. There is still a chance that you could be convicted of the seat belt offence with double points.

Our man in Havana · 16-03-2011 5:06pm

Without evidence, that is very doubtful.

NoQuarter · 16-03-2011 5:36pm

By any chance when the guard pulled you over, had you taken off your seat belt and he assumed you never had it on?

coylemj · 16-03-2011 6:08pm

The Garda obviously hit the wrong button on the system and you have been issued with the wrong fixed penalty. Unless he is completely corrupt he will realise on the day of the court that what's in his notebook doesn't tally with the alleged offence on the summons and getting it struck out should be easy. If I was you I would not pay the fine, wait for the summons and go to court and by the way I would not use a solicitor.

Go to the court and meet up with the Garda before the case is called, this by the way is done for lots of reasons (mainly people who forgot to produce licence & insurance) so don't worry that the Garda will react badly and tell you that it is inappropriate to be talking to him.

Show him the summons, point out that he stopped you for talking on the phone and that the wrong summons was issued, he should then see the discrepancy when he looks at his notebook and all going well he should tell you that he will 'offer no evidence' which is the legal term for him pulling the case when it's called.

Make sure to hang around though and stand up and step forward when the case is called, that way he'll remember the case (he could have several cases that day) and will tell the judge that he is offering no evidence, you can then leave and I doubt if you'll hear any more about it.

MagicSean · 16-03-2011 6:55pm

Baiscally you are hoping the Garda does not notice his mistake before the 6 months are up. If he does he will just summons you for the offence.

Our man in Havana · 16-03-2011 7:02pm

Let sleeping dogs lie, don't go poking hornets nests etc.

tommy21 · 16-03-2011 7:09pm

I'd do something different - go to the Guard prior to court (e.g. at the station) and point out that you are happy to pay the charge, but that you want to pay it for the offence you did commit and did not want to create trouble if it went to court etc. if you catch him in a good mood he might let you off? (Prob. really naive!)

Our man in Havana · 16-03-2011 7:20pm

If that fails there is always the tried and tested ambush in court.

bath handle · 16-03-2011 7:25pm

I have never seen anything as stupid as the advice given in this thread. Timing is everything and handling the judge will be crucial. It is obvious that most of the posters in this thread have never had a criminal charge dismissed.

MagicSean · 16-03-2011 7:54pm

bath handle wrote: »

I have never seen anything as stupid as the advice given in this thread. Timing is everything and handling the judge will be crucial. It is obvious that most of the posters in this thread have never had a criminal charge dismissed.

This isn't a solicitors office. If the op wants to know the best way to avoid getting caught that is where he should go.

Crazyivan 1979 · 21-03-2011 4:17pm

k_mac wrote: »

Baiscally you are hoping the Garda does not notice his mistake before the 6 months are up. If he does he will just summons you for the offence.

Do I not need to be issued with a "fixed charge penalty" notice for the correct offence first?

Crazyivan 1979 · 21-03-2011 4:19pm

k_mac wrote: »

This isn't a solicitors office. If the op wants to know the best way to avoid getting caught that is where he should go.

As stated in post #3 I have already done this. I was looking for others experiences, if any, of a similar situation.

MagicSean · 21-03-2011 4:26pm

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

Do I not need to be issued with a "fixed charge penalty" notice for the correct offence first?

Yes. Otherwise it's either pay the original fine or deal with it in court.

Crazyivan 1979 · 15-09-2011 12:50pm

Thought I'd bump this thread of mine. It's been 6 months since the date of the offence, and no summons. At the time when I spoke to my solicitor he said they have 6 months to issue summons, after that they can't. Am I off the hook?

MagicSean · 15-09-2011 12:52pm

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

Thought I'd bump this thread of mine. It's been 6 months since the date of the offence, and no summons. At the time when I spoke to my solicitor he said they have 6 months to issue summons, after that they can't. Am I off the hook?

No. The summons needs to be issued by six months. It can take another few for it to be delivered.

Crazyivan 1979 · 15-09-2011 12:59pm

Dammit another 3-4 days of sweating it.

MagicSean · 15-09-2011 1:03pm

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

Dammit another 3-4 days of sweating it.

three to four months

Crazyivan 1979 · 29-11-2011 2:06pm

update on this:

I ignored the fixed charge penalty notice. Then a summons came through late October for failure to wear a seat belt. Rang the gard who admitted his mistake, told me not to bother showing up in court as he would get the judge to strike it out.

Paulw · 29-11-2011 2:36pm

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

Rang the gard who admitted his mistake, told me not to bother showing up in court as he would get the judge to strike it out.

Nice, BUT .... if he doesn't show up in court on the day, or if he somehow forgets to get it struck out, if you're not there, you can be convicted in your absence. You then get a hefty penalty.

Personally, I'd still turn up. Best case, you've had to take a day off work. Worst case, you have to deal with the court on the day.

Del2005 · 29-11-2011 3:25pm

Paulw wrote: »

Nice, BUT .... if he doesn't show up in court on the day, or if he somehow forgets to get it struck out, if you're not there, you can be convicted in your absence. You then get a hefty penalty.

Personally, I'd still turn up. Best case, you've had to take a day off work. Worst case, you have to deal with the court on the day.

+1 on all this.

You are relying on a busy Guard to remember that they made a mistake in issuing you the wrong offence. If you aren't there on the day to remind them they could very well forget and you'll get convicted, is it a conviction for motoring offences?, in your absence.

Judges take a dim few of people not turning up for them.

Crazyivan 1979 · 29-11-2011 5:39pm

I did attend, sat quietly in the corner. Name was called, gard was already at the stand due to previous defendant, straight away said "strike that out judge", done and dusted. It was happened so quick I nearly missed it. Don't know if I need my hearing checked, but even though they have mics in the court, I had to strain to hear what was going on.

Citygirl1 · 30-11-2011 11:13pm

Crazyivan 1979 wrote: »

I did attend, sat quietly in the corner. Name was called, gard was already at the stand due to previous defendant, straight away said "strike that out judge", done and dusted. It was happened so quick I nearly missed it. Don't know if I need my hearing checked, but even though they have mics in the court, I had to strain to hear what was going on.

I visited a courtroom recently and noticed things do move really fast. Absolutely no use of unnecessary words, all very succinct. I did think it could be a case of "blink and you've missed it". It was also quite hard to hear. Definitely different from the image of high drama courtroom proceedings you get from TV!

MagicSean · 01-12-2011 12:14am

Citygirl1 wrote: »

I visited a courtroom recently and noticed things do move really fast. Absolutely no use of unnecessary words, all very succinct. I did think it could be a case of "blink and you've missed it". It was also quite hard to hear. Definitely different from the image of high drama courtroom proceedings you get from TV!

District courts are more like cattlemarts

Wrong offence on fixed charge notice.

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