Do You Believe in Creative Writing Courses?

H. Flashman

I was reading a piece by Bernard Cornwall and he reckoned that creative writing courses are a waste of time. His opinion being you've either got it or you don't. Now I've never been on one of these courses but I'd agree that a long course over weeks is overkill. But certainly I could see a benefit to a quick course over a day or something where basic do's and don'ts are highlighted.

pickarooney

I've never followed one but I can't imagine there's much you can learn on a course that you can't learn independently and for free.

iguana

I'd imagine the main benefit of a course is that it makes you set aside time to write. Gives you a space to think about your writing and gives you certain deadlines that you must work within. Some teachers might be good at spotting your strongest talents and guiding you in interesting directions. I think all talents can be improved with practise and proper guidance.

On the otherhand some courses are run by people a lot less talented and imaginative than they think they are. If you are unlucky you might end up in a class where genuinely original ideas get suppressed or your confidence dented. And tbh, it's a crapshoot.

If thinking about doing a course my best advice would be to thoroughly research it first. (And not just by reading reviews vetted by the people running the course.;)) Look at the writing credentials of the teachers and read some of their work. Also if possible look at the work of others who have done the course.

EileenG

Just started one this morning in UCD, and already I've been forced to rethink some of the ways I write. So yes, I reckon a good course can be a real benefit. The trick is getting one at the right standard and with a teacher you can work with.

Fatboydim

My advice would be to research the course thoroughly. My field is more scriptwriting - but I'm always amazed at the poor CVs of people running these courses. Just be selective and make sure that the course is offering something that you wish to achieve.

cobsie

EileenG wrote: »

Just started one this morning in UCD, and already I've been forced to rethink some of the ways I write. So yes, I reckon a good course can be a real benefit. The trick is getting one at the right standard and with a teacher you can work with.

That's very interesting - who is running the workshop? They have a well-regarded creative writing programme in UCD.

[I am about to submit an extract for the writer-in-residence workshop in Trinity. They only allow 1,000 words, which I find an incredibly anxiety-producing choice...anyway, tiz done now. I am tensed for the blow ]

EileenG

Patricia O'Reilly is running this course, which is about character development. I've done courses by her in the past, and find her excellent. She's one of those people who can read/listen to a piece, and just say a couple of words, but suddenly you can see all the bits that don't quite work.

Matt Holck

keep me to a schedule
and get useful advice in school

conan doyle

Whatever you do, don't do what I did and go for an online course. It sounded great on the site and I thought I had researched it really well. As I was unable to attend an actual course I thought it was a great idea. However the reality was far different. You are given things to write about and then you submit it to your online tutor who gives you feed back. It was a disaster for me but if any one knows of a course in Cork please let me know as I have more free time now. Good luck with your efforts.

ahayzer42

Check out and see if there are any local groups going.

When I was in undergrad - Dun Laoghaire Borough Council ran an open creative writing group when I was in first and fourth year and both were good.

First year one was basic enough in that it was sitting you down and telling you to write about something or describe something, etc, etc.

The fourth year one was brilliant. It was literally, send in your work and the guy running it, opened the floor for critique and feedback. Really, very good.

And didn't cost a cent.

pickarooney

Don't forget Write Club is there as a free resource for anyone who wants a regular feedback circle. There are no 'teachers' but there are enough people on here that feedback should be useful if everyone just motivates themselves to get started.

bigsmokewriting

One of our facilitators wrote about some of the reasons for taking a writing class here - http://writing.ie/writers-toolbox/writing-better/writers-tips/147-why-take-a-writing-class.html - says that you don't *need* to take one but you can benefit from it in various ways.

You need to know what you're looking for as well - long courses are much better if you've got a work-in-progress or you know you want the motivation of a weekly course, but sometimes people just want a one-day or half-day session to get them started or to point them in the right direction.

wosheen

Goods ones in Galway offered by Susan Millar DuMars and Kevin Higgins, short story and poetry writing, through GMIT, GTI and the Galway Arts Centre. I just did one and have to say I really enjoyed it, and saw a number of benefits. Homework made you write outside of your "comfort zone" but, while difficult, this gave me surprising results and I tapped into writing styles I didn't know I had in me. Made me put aside time every week to write, rather than put it on the long finger. There was a workshop focus, and reading out my work was daunting but ultimately has given me more confidence, and great to hear different feedback. Creative writing can be a bit lonely too, so it's great to have a social aspect to it.

cobsie

I think what all writers crave is the old-fashioned idea of an editor - a primary reader, with expertise and insight, who has time and opinions for everything they do. Being in a writing group (like Write Club) or in a workshop can fulfill that purpose on some level.

I personally wouldn't mind having my own William Shawn (JD Salinger's editor at the New Yorker) or Gordon Lish (Raymond Carver's editor, who famously suggested the title "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love").

Maybe I'm just obsessing about editors right now! I need one - although never let it be said that the insights and opinions in Write Club are not worth a price above rubies...especially to a penniless wannabe like me

pickarooney

I've gone beyond wanting an editor and am in need of a structural engineer at this stage.

Naasty

EileenG wrote: »

Just started one this morning in UCD, and already I've been forced to rethink some of the ways I write. So yes, I reckon a good course can be a real benefit. The trick is getting one at the right standard and with a teacher you can work with.

Interesting how many is it per class?

EileenG

It started out with about 25, was down to 15 after the first class, but I reckon those 15 are there to stay. I think the others got a bit freaked by the standard.

Fuinseog

H. Flashman wrote: »

I was reading a piece by Bernard Cornwall and he reckoned that creative writing courses are a waste of time. His opinion being you've either got it or you don't. Now I've never been on one of these courses but I'd agree that a long course over weeks is overkill. But certainly I could see a benefit to a quick course over a day or something where basic do's and don'ts are highlighted.

I was talking to the leader of such a course and was astounded to hear that they had never published, nor did they seem to know much of the publishing world. This cannot be the norm?

EileenG

Fuinseog wrote: »

I was talking to the leader of such a course and was astounded to hear that they had never published, nor did they seem to know much of the publishing world. This cannot be the norm?

My teacher has been making a good living as a professional writer for the last 30 years, and can give you the phone number of the agent she thinks might suit you. All of her books are still on sale, and you can borrow many from the local library.

But I have been to a writing course given by someone who has not published. She wasn't a bad writer, but I did feel I should be teaching the course, not doing it.

ciara121

conan doyle wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't do what I did and go for an online course. It sounded great on the site and I thought I had researched it really well. As I was unable to attend an actual course I thought it was a great idea. However the reality was far different. You are given things to write about and then you submit it to your online tutor who gives you feed back. It was a disaster for me but if any one knows of a course in Cork please let me know as I have more free time now. Good luck with your efforts.

hi conan, i know i did an online course, because i was pushed for time too but didnt want to put off starting one even more than i already had, and i thought it was pretty good! I dont know who your course provider was but i did mine with inkwell writers workshops. They seem to have a good system but that just my opinion!!! Maybe you could try looking on a geeric writing website for a wide range of courses, i found the one i did on writing.ie http://writing.ie/courses.html?view=joomd&cat_id=6
they also have in house courses posted too so maybe you could have a look at those!

I know you probably dont even want to hear this but i just thought maybe you should know online course arnt all that bad
Hope you find a course you enjoy!!!!

old hippy

I did a scriptwriters course at DCU about 20 years back. The best thing about it was the girl I hooked up with at the finish of the course

It's all about ideas, I find rather than formulae. After 20 years I finally have an idea that's going to work but I can't fashion it into a script. Gah!

Mr Diamond

I did a couple of courses for a while with the same guy...my reasoning was that it would impose a deadline each week to produce something and getting crits from a random spread of people can be interesting.

In the end, the other people in the course kept coming up with excuses for why they hadn't written anything themselves and seemed to just want to chat about themselves like it was some kind of self help group!

It was helpful to get some initial ground rules down but I've taken to imposing my own deadlines now.

EileenG

A friend of mine did a script writing course in Fishamble Street, and she said it was brilliant.

bigsmokewriting

Oh gosh - you should certainly have someone published teaching the course! (Or some other evidence of professionalism - e.g. one of our facilitators writes for the stage, where peformances matter more than publications. In the US, the two-year MFA programme tends to also be seen as an important credential and evidence someone knows what they're talking about.)

As for knowledge of the publishing world, that's another thing - there's often a question as to how far creative writing masters degrees, for example, prepare writers for the publication side of things rather than just the craft side of things. And the realm of publishing is a whole other world. But the teacher should be able to tell you at least about how publishing/producing works in their area - it can be quite different for poetry & short stories vs novels vs screenplays though.

MyPunkGang

I think you can help people learn things it would take them longer to figure out. I run creative writing courses in Belfast and I've seen some very eager writers turn into good writers while attending. It's not just the course. The writer has to be both reading and writing in their own free time.

Killer_banana

wosheen wrote: »

Goods ones in Galway offered by Susan Millar DuMars and Kevin Higgins, short story and poetry writing, through GMIT, GTI and the Galway Arts Centre. I just did one and have to say I really enjoyed it, and saw a number of benefits. Homework made you write outside of your "comfort zone" but, while difficult, this gave me surprising results and I tapped into writing styles I didn't know I had in me. Made me put aside time every week to write, rather than put it on the long finger. There was a workshop focus, and reading out my work was daunting but ultimately has given me more confidence, and great to hear different feedback. Creative writing can be a bit lonely too, so it's great to have a social aspect to it.

I did a course with Susan three years back and she really is a brilliant teacher. The assignments were interesting, diverse and, as you said, had you writing out of your comfort zone. As well as that she provided a lot of practical information about basic rules, layout e.t.c. Also it I found the feedback from the rest of the class was very helpful as it came from a wide age range of very different types of writers and readers. would highly recommend her. I haven't done a course with Kevin but if he's anything like his wife than he's fantastic also.