FE-1s question

J77

Hey guys. Weighing up career options at the moment. I will be finishing a qualifying Law degree and was having a look at the legal professions.

I just have a question about FE-1s. It appears to me that you essentially have to take a year out, doing nothing other than studying to do your FE-1s. Is this correct?

I was hoping that if you secured a training contract you could do FE-1s while you work. I would have liked to start working straight after college. I really don't like the idea of taking a year out to do exams.

chopser

You can work and do the fe1 exams at the same time, it is more difficult as you will need lots of time to study but if you are ok with studying in the evenings and weekends you will be fine.

Do you already have a job/training contract lined up?

J77

chopser wrote: »

You can work and do the fe1 exams at the same time, it is more difficult as you will need lots of time to study but if you are ok with studying in the evenings and weekends you will be fine.

Do you already have a job/training contract lined up?

So it would be possible to do everything in 2 years? do the FE-1s not interfere with PPC1?


I'm not yet in my final year so I don't have a training contract lined up. I do however have an internship with a law firm this summer so am hopeful that If I perform well enough I will be able to secure a TC.

I was reading a thread from 2009 re Trainee solicitor salaries. Not that it's the most important thing to me but does anyone know what the TC salaries are for big law firms at the moment? Is it still up to the 40k region as mentioned here?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55873190

Grolschevik

http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Becoming-a-Solicitor-CMS/

Steps to qualification as a solicitor:
1. The Preliminary Examination (for non-Graduates)
2. The Final Examination - First Part (entrance examination)
3. The Training Contract (24 months in duration)
4. The Professional Practice Courses (PPC I & PPC II)

The Final Examination - First Part (FE-1) is the entrance examination to the Law Society of Ireland. Only those who have passed or gained exemption from the Preliminary Examination can sit this examination. It is held twice a year, normally in Spring and Autumn.
It consists of the following eight papers:
· Company Law
· Constitutional Law
· Law of Contract
· Criminal Law
· European Union Law
· Equity
· Real Property
· Law of Tort

The in-office training period is the core of the training programme. Training solicitors are required to provide the trainee solicitor with reasonable and appropriate instruction and experience in several key areas.

Apply for Training Consent
Before being eligible to start the training programme, applicants must apply to the Law Society for consent to start training. Evidence must be provided of good character, and any criminal convictions must be disclosed. The Law Society may interview applicants.

Training Contract
Applicants must secure a training contract before they can apply for a place on the PPC I. The Training Contract is 24 months in duration and commences 14 days after the final examination on the Professional Practice Course I (PPC I). You can upload your CV to the Trainee Register.

The full-time courses are practice-oriented and instruction is given mainly by practising solicitors and Law Society staff. The courses are assessed through continuous assessment and end of course examinations.

The Professional Practice Course I (PPC I)
Eligible applicants for the PPC I must have:
· Passed, or gained exemption from the Preliminary Examination
· Passed the Final Examination - First Part
· Found a suitable (practising) solicitor to act as a training solicitor

The PPC I takes place annually, usually commencing in September, running through until April (inclusive of examinations).


Training Programme
The Training Contract proper commences fourteen days after the final examination on the PPC I.

Professional Practice Course II (PPC II)
11 months into the 24-month training period, the trainee returns to the Law School to attend the PPC II. This course is 12 weeks in duration and is counted as part of the 24-month training period.

Having completed the PPC II, the trainee must return to the office of the training solicitor and complete the outstanding period of time - ten months if the trainee has not gained credit for work done prior to PPC I, or six months if credit has been obtained.

The PPC II usually commences in April each year and runs for 11 weeks, inclusive of examinations.

You might find these useful to read too:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055143169

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055669942&highlight=trainees+salaries

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055434330&highlight=trainees+salaries

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055384320&highlight=trainees+salaries

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=18142960#

colonel1

J77 wrote: »

Hey guys. Weighing up career options at the moment. I will be finishing a qualifying Law degree and was having a look at the legal professions.

I just have a question about FE-1s. It appears to me that you essentially have to take a year out, doing nothing other than studying to do your FE-1s. Is this correct?

I was hoping that if you secured a training contract you could do FE-1s while you work. I would have liked to start working straight after college. I really don't like the idea of taking a year out to do exams.

If you could take a year out to do the FE1s without working that would be ideal, as working Full time and doing these exams is very very hard (at least in my experience). Quite a few people have to repeat them when they work FT and study part time. Plus it can be difficult for some to get time off from work to study/actually sit the exams. Having said that, everyone is different, so perhaps a part time job (a few hours a week) might suit!

Well done on getting the internship btw, that is great:)

_JOE_

chopser wrote: »

You can work and do the fe1 exams at the same time, it is more difficult as you will need lots of time to study but if you are ok with studying in the evenings and weekends you will be fine.

This.

I worked full time in a law firm, completed a masters in UCD, and did the FE-1's in the same year...

Late evening study, as in between 6:30 and 1am and long weekends will be your saviour!

NoQuarter

Just to clarify, the FE-1s dont interfere with PPC1 because to go on PPC1 you need to have been taken on as a trainee which cant happen without all 8 FE-1s.

Dandelion6

I did all my FE1s in a year while also working full time. It meant I had no other life whatsoever, but I passed them. It can be done if you work hard enough at it.

J77

colonel1 wrote: »

If you could take a year out to do the FE1s without working that would be ideal, as working Full time and doing these exams is very very hard (at least in my experience). Quite a few people have to repeat them when they work FT and study part time. Plus it can be difficult for some to get time off from work to study/actually sit the exams. Having said that, everyone is different, so perhaps a part time job (a few hours a week) might suit!

Well done on getting the internship btw, that is great:)

Just to clarify, I mean I want to start working in a law firm straight away not just working in a regular job to make money.

Cheers BTW! I'm pretty happy about it, looking forward to experiencing it first hand.

_JOE_ wrote: »

This.

I worked full time in a law firm, completed a masters in UCD, and did the FE-1's in the same year...

Late evening study, as in between 6:30 and 1am and long weekends will be your saviour!

When you were working in the law firm was that deducted from your total time required? As in, was it part of your training contract?

NoQuarter wrote: »

Just to clarify, the FE-1s dont interfere with PPC1 because to go on PPC1 you need to have been taken on as a trainee which cant happen without all 8 FE-1s.

So based on that I would be lead to believe that you can't begin work in a law firm until you have the 8 FE-1s done meaning there's no other option than to take a year out to do the exams?

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I did all my FE1s in a year while also working full time. It meant I had no other life whatsoever, but I passed them. It can be done if you work hard enough at it.

Full time in an unrelated job or in a law firm?

blueythebear

J77 wrote: »

Just to clarify, I mean I want to start working in a law firm straight away not just working in a regular job to make money.

Cheers BTW! I'm pretty happy about it, looking forward to experiencing it first hand.

When you were working in the law firm was that deducted from your total time required? As in, was it part of your training contract?

So based on that I would be lead to believe that you can't begin work in a law firm until you have the 8 FE-1s done meaning there's no other option than to take a year out to do the exams?

Full time in an unrelated job or in a law firm?

If you're working in a big firm you can expect to work well over 40 hours per week making study pretty tough. I would have thought if you're working as a trainee in alot of firms, you'll have to work more than 9-5, making passing the FE-1s in 2 sittings pretty tough. Doable but don't underestimate the time and effort required. Forget about doing anything other than work and study for the year.

You can begin to work in a firm before you finish your FE-1s. You must complete your FE-1s before you start PPCI is all. PPC I is the beginning of your training as a solicitor so you coannot qualify as a solicitor until 2 years after you begin PPC I which begins in September each year. The 2 years can be cut by 4 months if you have worked in an office before PPC I.

NoQuarter

J77 I fear your deeply deeply underestimating the FE-1s. They are nothing like the college exams. When I finished my degree last year I think the maximum topics I studied for an exam was probably 5, between the process of elimination, lecturer tips and that the semesters were split up.

With the FE-1s, if your doing Company law for example, its basically the WHOLE syllabus, you cant cherry pick topics or you will get caught out, basically you can only afford to NOT study one or 2 topics.

So even thinking that taking a year out and passing them in 2 sittings is a decent achievement in itself judging on my failure to pass my first four (and I had never failed an exam throughout college) and my classmates who are all struggling to pass their 8, none of us will do it in 2 sittings!

Its not impossible, but its close.

Also, I have my degree, have over a years experience in a small firm and I applied to all the big firms this year and never even got one interview! As was the same with hundreds of others. I'm in no way trying to scare you off but I know myself, life in college is rosey and you only throw half an eye to the future, but as soon as your out of college its really tough going!

If I was you, I'd just focus on doing well in exams and doing great in that internship, then if you have a weekday off college, go into a solicitors and tell them you will work that day every week for free like I did.

If you are incredibly, incredibly lucky to leave college and then get taken on by a big firm (who recruit a year or 2 in advance so if you dont have a contract secured already then the earliest you can get one now is for sept 2012, more likely 2013) but either way if they do take you on, you have to get all 8 FE-1s in the bag before you can start your contract.

_JOE_

J77 wrote: »

When you were working in the law firm was that deducted from your total time required? As in, was it part of your training contract?

It is possible to get up to 6 months deducted from the required 2 years...

Though it might be worth noting that at the moment, it might not be a the wisest move to shorten a 2 year contract to 1.5 years...

Dandelion6

J77 wrote: »

Full time in an unrelated job or in a law firm?

Not entirely unrelated, but not in a law firm.

shaneybaby

_JOE_ wrote: »

It is possible to get up to 6 months deducted from the required 2 years...

Though it might be worth noting that at the moment, it might not be a the wisest move to shorten a 2 year contract to 1.5 years...

4 months is max you can get deducted
http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Becoming-a-Solicitor-CMS/Irish-Applicants-Solicitor/Training-Programme/

_JOE_

shaneybaby wrote: »

4 months is max you can get deducted
http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Becoming-a-Solicitor-CMS/Irish-Applicants-Solicitor/Training-Programme/

My apologies, I had it in the back of my head that it was 6...Nevertheless, as I've already said, it's not something that I would avail of if you're in a large commercial firm...

dumbyearbook

_JOE_ wrote: »

Though it might be worth noting that at the moment, it might not be a the wisest move to shorten a 2 year contract to 1.5 years...

Good advice Joe, is it just me or are training contracts non-existent the odd one pops up on the law society website time to time but I'd say they get hundreds of applications and even then are prob only advertising as they "have to" ? Sorry for off topicness.

blueythebear

dumbyearbook wrote: »

Good advice Joe, is it just me or are training contracts non-existent the odd one pops up on the law society website time to time but I'd say they get hundreds of applications and even then are prob only advertising as they "have to" ? Sorry for off topicness.

Training contracts generally are not advertised as solicitor's offices will tend to get at least one letter and CV per week from people looking for a training contract anyway. THere's no need to advertise given the fact that there are many more potential trainees out there than traineeships available.

dumbyearbook

blueythebear wrote: »

Training contracts generally are not advertised as solicitor's offices will tend to get at least one letter and CV per week from people looking for a training contract anyway. THere's no need to advertise given the fact that there are many more potential trainees out there than traineeships available.

Yes thanks for this I was more trying to get at the point that there are very few firms taking on a trainee most firms would appear happy to keep the people they have working.

blueythebear

dumbyearbook wrote: »

Yes thanks for this I was more trying to get at the point that there are very few firms taking on a trainee most firms would appear happy to keep the people they have working.

I know what you mean. Really though it's a case of dumb luck and using any contacts you have. The top firms recruit every year but otherwise it's pot luck as to whether a firm needs a trainee. Unfortunately, demand far outweighs supply at the minute. The best idea could be to offer to work for free in a firm in order to gain experience and that would help alot when it comes to applying to other firms.

J77

NoQuarter wrote: »

J77 I fear your deeply deeply underestimating the FE-1s.

I fear that too!

If you are incredibly, incredibly lucky to leave college and then get taken on by a big firm (who recruit a year or 2 in advance so if you dont have a contract secured already then the earliest you can get one now is for sept 2012, more likely 2013) but either way if they do take you on, you have to get all 8 FE-1s in the bag before you can start your contract.[/QUOTE]

I've begun looking into going down the UK route. I've started a thread in legal dis. Would appreciate if you or anyone else could tell me the pros and cons of it in the thread. Thanks.

81

Hi all, I have a question re Fe1's. Is it possible to sit the exams before you graduate from law e.g. in the October of your final year?
Also is it possible to sit just one or two or is there a minimum number you have to sit?

PS I have completed all the Fe1 subjects as modules during my degree already if that makes sense.

NoQuarter

81 wrote: »

Hi all, I have a question re Fe1's. Is it possible to sit the exams before you graduate from law e.g. in the October of your final year?
Also is it possible to sit just one or two or is there a minimum number you have to sit?

PS I have completed all the Fe1 subjects as modules during my degree already if that makes sense.

At this stage you'll need your law degree, or any degree. There is another way to sit them without a degree but if you're in your last year now then its too late for that.

You have to sit a minimum of 4 for your first sitting and pass 3 of those 4 or have to start again fresh. eg, if you sit 4, pass 2 and fail 2, you are back to zero and have to start over.

Once you pass your first 3 in one sitting, you are free to take the rest in whatever combinations you want.