A look at our backs and forwards so far

twinytwo

Stats for the games so far....
* both bowe and mcfadden have 2 games each
MR = meters run with ball
CB = clean breaks
DB = defenders beaten
OL= offloads
TO = turnovers won

if i have missed a try or left out a tackle or two i apologise

CouchSmart

And D'Arcy and O'Driscoll are having bad tournaments? Haters gonna hate.

TheRevolution

These stats really dont show anything except that our defence has been excellent. I fail to see what there is to discuss or am I missing something here?

According to these D'arcy is the stand out performer.

molloyjh

Where did you get these from? For starters Ferg scored a try in the France game. So if they are missing stats that basic I'd be wary of the rest tbh.

GymJim

How did McFadden lose a try?

TheRevolution

GymJim wrote: »

How did McFadden lose a try?

Its actually quite depressing that he leads the back 3 try rate with one try

GerM

molloyjh wrote: »

Where did you get these from? For starters Ferg scored a try in the France game. So if they are missing stats that basic I'd be wary of the rest tbh.

I assume they're Scrum.com which do tend to miss out some stuff but are generally accurate. I find that unless you're looking at a specific area of the game such as set piece or goal kicking then stats don't really tell an accurate story. Metres gained can be a nothing stat really as some players are given the ball in 30 metres of space so of course they'll rack up the numbers. I also find the tackles made to be very unclear. A lot of double tackles are attributed to the first man on the scene although it's often the second man that puts the carrier down.

According to these stats, one could argue that Luke Fitz is having the best tournament of all our backs which we all know is way off the mark. More metres ran, more offloads, no missed tackles, sure what more can ya ask of the man?!

Gelio

I simply don't believe they are right!

TheRevolution

GerM wrote: »

I assume they're Scrum.com which do tend to miss out some stuff but are generally accurate. I find that unless you're looking at a specific area of the game such as set piece or goal kicking then stats don't really tell an accurate story. Metres gained can be a nothing stat really as some players are given the ball in 30 metres of space so of course they'll rack up the numbers. I also find the tackles made to be very unclear. A lot of double tackles are attributed to the first man on the scene although it's often the second man that puts the carrier down.

According to these stats, one could argue that Luke Fitz is having the best tournament of all our backs which we all know is way off the mark. More metres ran, more offloads, no missed tackles, sure what more can ya ask of the man?!

Well obviously ignoring that the back 3 will generally have huge metres ran numbers they can be quite helpful. I mean D'arcy has been absolutely massive in defence, they show that. Do they show the full story though? Not at all.

From what I can see the only thing these stats show is that D'arcy hasn't been as bad as people are making out.

molloyjh

GerM wrote: »

According to these stats, one could argue that Luke Fitz is having the best tournament of all our backs which we all know is way off the mark. More metres ran, more offloads, no missed tackles, sure what more can ya ask of the man?!

Cough, cough...high ball...cough, cough.

TheRevolution

The stats also don't include our main gripe so far in this tournament.....the butchering of tries. O'Gara, O'Driscoll, Earls, D'arcy have all been guilty of it. (and Wallace obviously)

twinytwo

GymJim wrote: »

How did McFadden lose a try?

sorry fixed that

TheRevolution

twinytwo wrote: »

sorry fixed that

O'Brien also made 35 tackles not 30.

funky penguin

Crickey.....

Look at SOB!!! Most defenders beaten, 197 metres ran and only D'Arcy beats him on Turn overs.! :eek:

TheRevolution

POC averaging 2 metres a game......room for improvement for a second row.

GerM

molloyjh wrote: »

Cough, cough...high ball...cough, cough.

Indeed. I was being facetious. It doesn't allow for good or bad kicks, for putting people through gaps by good distribution, for good/bad positional play and a multitude of other factors that contribute to what makes a good or bad performance.

GerM

TheRevolution wrote: »

POC averaging 2 metres a game......room for improvement for a second row.

I checked stats last night and POC had made about 20 metres in the Scotland game alone so I'm doubting the validity of these particular stats. It stood out to me because I agree that POC is weak in the carrying stakes. I'm also surprised by the higher carrying numbers for DOC and Healy but it's possible. 20m a game average from a prop is some serious carrying if it's accurate.

Sport101

funky penguin wrote: »

Crickey.....

Look at SOB!!! Most defenders beaten, 197 metres ran and only D'Arcy beats him on Turn overs.! :eek:

The individual turnovers numbers matches with the total team turnovers conceded btw, so my understanding is that this is a negative figure per player in scrum.com's stats.

twinytwo

GerM wrote: »

I checked stats last night and POC had made about 20 metres in the Scotland game alone so I'm doubting the validity of these particular stats. It stood out to me because I agree that POC is weak in the carrying stakes. I'm also surprised by the higher carrying numbers for DOC and Healy but it's possible. 20m a game average from a prop is some serious carrying if it's accurate.

you are right he made 21.. ill fix it now.

CouchSmart

Turnovers, with respect to the ESPN stats at least, are when you get turned over or give the ball to the opponents, they're a bad thing.

twinytwo

CouchSmart wrote: »

Turnovers, with respect to the ESPN stats at least, are when you get turned over or give the ball to the opponents, they're a bad thing.

are you sure about that? that would mean both drico and darcy were turned over 4 times each against italy

Sport101

Spilling the ball/knocking-on is counted as a turnover conceded by a player.

GerM

twinytwo wrote: »

are you sure about that? that would mean both drico and darcy were turned over 4 times each against italy

Yup. Knock ons etc count as Sports101 mentions. BOD's two passes directly into touch would count also which would contribute to his high total.

Podge_irl

Some of those stats make for awfully depressing reading. Interesting that it's nearly entirely our forwards who are giving away the penalties.

Anyway, lies, damn lies etc.

bamboozle

we're meant to be playing an expansive game but look at the number of offloads by our forwards, depressing stuff.

TheRevolution

bamboozle wrote: »

we're meant to be playing an expansive game but look at the number of offloads by our forwards, depressing stuff.

I am sorry but I just cant be depressed when looking at the forward stats. Sean O'Brien's stats just fill me with joy. Ferris' injury has been a blessing in disguise, its crazy to think that had Ferris not gotten injured then O'Brien would never have played!

Podge_irl

TheRevolution wrote: »

I am sorry but I just cant be depressed when looking at the forward stats. Sean O'Brien's stats just fill me with joy. Ferris' injury has been a blessing in disguise, its crazy to think that had Ferris not gotten injured then O'Brien would never have played!

6 penalties isn't a great stat. And it's still unclear whether that's turnovers conceded or earned, though judging from the back's stats it's conceded, which agains isn't a great stat.

Leinster7

29 offloads in 4 matches proves the worst player here is Declan Kidney.

Kidney = outdated/underperformance

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

6 penalties isn't a great stat. And it's still unclear whether that's turnovers conceded or earned, though judging from the back's stats it's conceded, which agains isn't a great stat.

Yeah, but what were the penalties for? There are a few that are bound to be not releasing the ball, which has as much to do with a lack of support from others than him. That's why stats like these are only so good, they tell a story without any context.

Mr.Applepie

Podge_irl wrote: »

6 penalties isn't a great stat. And it's still unclear whether that's turnovers conceded or earned, though judging from the back's stats it's conceded, which agains isn't a great stat.

Yeah but if you look at the turnovers I would say the majority are for holding on because no one is supporting him after he makes a break.

jacothelad

CouchSmart wrote: »

Turnovers, with respect to the ESPN stats at least, are when you get turned over or give the ball to the opponents, they're a bad thing.

The turnovers are for those won, not lost.

[Jackass]

I always enjoy these top of the pops stats threads.

O'Gara is actually the best defender in the backline, so.... :cool:

These stats are usually about as useful a measure of performance as they are at recording accurate data.

Podge_irl

jacothelad wrote: »

The turnovers are for those won, not lost.

Our backline has made 4 times as many turnovers as our backrow (and by backrow in this I mean SOB, seeing as he has 6/7 of them)? I find that hard to believe, though would be problematic if true.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Our backline has made 4 times as many turnovers as our backrow (and by backrow in this I mean SOB, seeing as he has 6/7 of them)? I find that hard to believe, though would be problematic if true.

And Keith Earls has 5 turned over the ball 5 times :pac:

evil_seed

Stats are for losers

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

The turnovers are for those won, not lost.

Pretty sure they're not.
The numbers don’t add up at all if that’s the case. Scrum.com is run by ESPN and treats turnovers as they do in the U.S. i.e. in basketball when a team turns over possession to the opposition as opposed to the traditional sense in rugby that we refer to as winning a turnover.

CouchSmart

jacothelad wrote: »

The turnovers are for those won, not lost.

No they're not.

PhatPiggins

Fair play for actually taking the time to compile and post this twentytwo.

twinytwo

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Fair play for actually taking the time to compile and post this twentytwo.

ill forgive you the name change :P

profitius

Earls' stats are also impressive including his defense.