Do you mark the ball correctly on forked greens?

Garda S Horgan

Recently I've seen quite a lot of what I would call "favourable placing" on greens.
The rules are the you must place the ball in the same position as it came to rest. Now that many courses have greens with shocking holes in them, I've noticed players marking the ball and doing 1 of two things as a result of these holes. 1). putting the ball a little ahead or to the side of the hole so that their ball is not in a hole. 2). Placing the ball and then it rolls into the hole or moves and then replacing it even though the marker has been taken up. If it does roll, due to wind or anything else and it's not been addressed then it needs to be played from that position. Instead the ball is placed, marker up, then it rolls into the hole and it's lifted back out.
It's normally the first one I see though. People don't seem to place the ball back in a hole.
I find that mostly I'm in one of those holes as it's logical to assume you'll end up in them more often than not as the ball will settle in them, so I mark it and put it back in the hole.

Having played about 6 times on these forked greens I'm yet to see anyone place the ball back in the hole.
Is there a rule I'm unaware of that allows favourable placing in these situations or are lads taking advantage?

Yours in wonderment,
GSH.

Whyner

You're some moan merchant

Garda S Horgan

Whyner wrote: »

You're some moan merchant

No I'm not. I'm great fun.
I take it then, from your agitation, that you knowingly cheat when marking the ball.

Yours etc,
GSH

Mister Sifter

http://golf.about.com/od/rulesofgolf/f/rfaq_aeration.htm

Whyner

Predictable response there. Nope, your post is boring.

What did your partners say when you mentioned this? Or, do you want moan and get people on your side?

Garda S Horgan

Whyner wrote: »

Predictable response there. Nope, your post is boring.

What did your partners say when you mentioned this? Or, do you want moan and get people on your side?

I agree that it's boring. It was boring when I brought it up and the poeple said that technically I was correct but that no-one was going to put the ball back in a hole.
I said that I put it back in a hole if it was in one to begin with, but they just said I'll be the only one to do that.
It's not about getting people on side. If it's a breach of the rules then it's a penalty. No harm for people to be aware of it.
For the next 3 or 4 weeks the greens will be pretty crap, unless the weather is going to be good.
In that time there will be 2 medals. If people are going to mark the balls out of holes to get a good start on a putt then it's a mockery of golf. When I was putting at the weekend the first 2 inches of my putts were airborne.

Thanks to MisterSifter there, at least I know now to continue as I was.
I try to play the game to the rules and some rules are silly and costly and I just thought that perhaps I was penalising myself here. I wasn't.

Yours etc,
GSH.

Woodgate

Conno is disguise;)

WHIP IT!

Woodgate wrote: »

Conno is disguise;)

Si

Yours etc,

Emelio

Mr. Larson

I'm all for honesty etc. but... and at the risk of incurring the wrath of the rules police, does it really matter much to ya during the winter with placing and whatnot? Whatever about not doing it yourself I'd definitely stop short of pulling someone else up over it.

IITYWYBMAD

Local rule in my place covers this, relief is given if your ball is in the hole.

george67

I suppose you could say that the ball is below ground ie plugged so you can repair like a pitch mark . I presume that you repair pitch marks even if the green is pole forked :rolleyes:

Garda S Horgan

george67 wrote: »

I suppose you could say that the ball is below ground ie plugged so you can repair like a pitch mark . I presume that you repair pitch marks even if the green is pole forked :rolleyes:

I think the rule, as posted by MisterSifter is clear enough. No relief, and you must place the ball exactly where it was on the green. If the hole was made larger/deeper as a result of a pitch mark then I would expect it coudl be repaired under normal pitch mark rules.

As for mattering or not during winter with placing, it matters. The rules are not there just for summer or when people want to adhere to them. In competition you are your own referee so if you decide to allow yourself +6inches or favourable placing on the greens or standing behind the ball in the rough after placing it (seems rife) etc then it's a bit sad, and I'll certainly mention it to people that they need to be aware of that particular infringement. If they want to penalise themselves then thats their business. If those guys are on an inter club team at some stage, they will need to be automatically doing everything by the rules or they will lose the hole.
People, by and large, adhere to the bunker rule where you can't remove leaves/twigs from around your ball, and that is mostly an issue in winter. I would not like to see people removing stuff from bunkers and saying that it's only winter and it doesn't matter. However, this is quite rare, so I'm assuming that alot of poeple are unaware of the rules surrounding these airation holes on the green. I had been wondering if there was a seperate rule that I was not aware of.
My view is that if you're in a paid competition then you referee yourself by all the rules, regardless of the time of year or if you think it matters or not. @JABBERWOCKY - I don't think people are being dishonest in their marking, not 100% of them anyway.

Yours etc,
GSH.

Mister Sifter

Garda S Horgan wrote: »

I think the rule, as posted by MisterSifter is clear enough. No relief, and you must place the ball exactly where it was on the green. If the hole was made larger/deeper as a result of a pitch mark then I would expect it coudl be repaired under normal pitch mark rules.

As for mattering or not during winter with placing, it matters. The rules are not there just for summer or when people want to adhere to them. In competition you are your own referee so if you decide to allow yourself +6inches or favourable placing on the greens or standing behind the ball in the rough after placing it (seems rife) etc then it's a bit sad, and I'll certainly mention it to people that they need to be aware of that particular infringement. If they want to penalise themselves then thats their business. If those guys are on an inter club team at some stage, they will need to be automatically doing everything by the rules or they will lose the hole.
People, by and large, adhere to the bunker rule where you can't remove leaves/twigs from around your ball, and that is mostly an issue in winter. I would not like to see people removing stuff from bunkers and saying that it's only winter and it doesn't matter. However, this is quite rare, so I'm assuming that alot of poeple are unaware of the rules surrounding these airation holes on the green. I had been wondering if there was a seperate rule that I was not aware of.
My view is that if you're in a paid competition then you referee yourself by all the rules, regardless of the time of year or if you think it matters or not. @JABBERWOCKY - I don't think people are being dishonest in their marking, not 100% of them anyway.

Yours etc,
GSH.

The link I gave is pretty clear on it all, but the local rule is the crucual part. I'm aware of a good few places that bring in the local rule so its worth checking.

If there's no local rule, then Garda etc etc is right. If you move it out of the hole then you're breaking the rules. You might not see it as cheating, but it is. You might think of it as small beer, but if Mr Saltman was pulled up for it (to universal disapproval) then you should be too.

That said, if there's aeration holes on your course I'd be encouraging your committee to introduce the local rule. Makes putting a farce otherwise.