Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

40 Sq Meeter Extension Planning Exemption- Internal or External Measurment?

  • 15-03-2011 9:59am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭ greened
    Registered User


    As the title suggests I am wondering if the 40 sq meter planning exemption limit for rear extensions is and internal dimension or an external dimension.

    Thanks


Comments

  • Subscribers Posts: 36,678 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat
    Subscriber


    internal


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭✭ bravojohnny
    Registered User


    Hi greened,


    The 40sqm. 'planning exemption limit' is an internal dimension.

    Please note that there are plenty of other aspects to this planning exemption (from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/planning_permission/planning_perm_altering_a_house.html):

    Building an extension to the rear of the house which does not increase the original floor area of the house by more than 40 square metres and is not higher than the house. The extension should not reduce the open space at the back of the house to less than 25 square metres which must be reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of your house. If your house has been extended before, the floor area of the extension you are now proposing and the floor area of any previous extension (including those for which you previously got planning permission) must not exceed 40 square metres. (There are also other height restrictions.)

    Also is it just a ground floor extension?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭ DOCARCH
    Moderator


    Also remenber to include in the overall area the area of former external walls that will now become internal. This catches people out a lot!


  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭ greened
    Registered User


    Thanks for the replys.

    It is a single story extension in two parts, one the kitchen area and also pushing out a bed room further down the original bungalow. Total combined area will be just under the 40 ms2.
    There are no other previous extensions and I will still have the 25ms2 space to the rear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭✭ roonimirza
    Registered User


    Hi folks

    I have a very similar question .. thinking to build a rear extension, with its own
    door from the side of the road (our house is on the corner).

    By following your comments:
    • Checked the open space and we have 25 Sq M, before we build the wall for extension.
    • Extension be roughly 30 SQ M and thinking to do a a complete studio, I hope it be possible.

    Challenges:

    1- Not sure, if we need planning permission?
    2- How high it can be, heard we can go up 6 meters?
    3- Can we have a separate entrance on the side?
    4- How to over come privacy issues? e.g. kitchen window
    will directly overlook the extension, which may have a bedroom window?
    5- Can you put windows anywhere?
    6- Do we need architect and normally how expensive these can be?

    I would really appreciate your help.

    Rooni


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 37,392 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor
    Registered User


    Hi Rooni,
    The requiremnets are pretty simple, and black and white. The problem, is the situation at your house is prob a little gray.

    Class 1 here;
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

    If there is something and you aren't sure how to apply it, or if you comply, you may need a professionals opinion. such as an Architectural Technician, or Architect


    Some observations
    • Checked the open space and we have 25 Sq M, before we build the wall for extension.
    You need 25m afterwards.
    1- Not sure, if we need planning permission?
    2- How high it can be, heard we can go up 6 meters?
    3- Can we have a separate entrance on the side?
    4- How to over come privacy issues? e.g. kitchen window
    will directly overlook the extension, which may have a bedroom window?
    5- Can you put windows anywhere?
    6- Do we need architect and normally how expensive these can be?

    1 - You may need planning, see below
    2 - Equal to height as existing. 40m area is total, not 40m per floor. 1st may be restricted to 12m (see link above)
    3 - See note below
    4 - it's not a privacy issue if its part of the one house. see note
    5 - There are require distances from boundrarys, mostly at 1st floor. (see link above)
    6 - It depends really. An Arch Tech or an architect may be required


    Note;
    I had the feeling, when reading your post, that you weren't proposing a standard extension. your questions above confirm this for me.

    Would i be right in saying that you intend to convert this extension into a stand alone studio. Hense the reason for its own door, the privacy concerns and just the generall way of describing it.
    Can you provide a more complete description of your plans. By guy says you need planning permission.


    (I can make this a new thread if you like, but its prob going to be straight forward once it described in full)


  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭✭ roonimirza
    Registered User


    Hi Mellor

    Many thanks, you are right, I like to have a stand alone studio for my brother while he goes to college. He needs his own privacy and space for study and what ever else go on during college : )

    " Above ground floor " seems interesting to me, I have seen in US, alot of houses
    have basements, may be I can take this on.

    I really like to take this on this project to a realization phase and make it happen. I like to engage a architect and let them decide whats best or even possible in our place.

    Any recommendations on architect would again be appreciated

    And thanks again.

    Rooni


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered User


    If it is a 'stand alone studio' it is not an exempted development and needs planning permission, regardless of the floor area. But it might be a worthwhile project regardless, it's just that parking, water, sewerage, amenity areas, etc as well as the actual building need to be taken account of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭ BlackEdelweiss
    Registered User


    Does the 25 sqm at the rear of the house have to be directly behind the house or can the space at the side of the house be counted as well? we have a fence and gate starting halfway up the side of the house giving us an L shaped garden, can the area behind this fence be counted?


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,678 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat
    Subscriber


    you would want to get clarification from your local authority, but in my experience, its only considered exempt if its all behind the main house, ie in that it cant be viewed from the front. the regs stated that the extension should be "to the rear" of a dwelling, not to the side.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭ BlackEdelweiss
    Registered User


    Is that the case for the open space aswell or just the actual extension? Our house is about 7m wide and our garden is about 14m wide, our extension would be the width of the house so can our open space be taken from the 7m that extends from the potential new side wall or does it have to be directly behind the 7m of the new extension?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,392 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor
    Registered User


    Think Syd mis-read your last post.
    But his advice still applies, check with your own local authority as it depends on how they view it.
    It's one of the greay appears of the exemption rules.

    The problem area is the section of garden that is both behind the rear line of the house and beyond the side line of the house. Strictly speaking it's both to he rear and to the side.

    IMO, the extension must be built fully to the rear, but the garden can include the area that is both to the side and behind. I can post a diagram if you don't understand the area I mean


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭ WalterMitty
    Registered User


    Can roof gardens on top of single storey studio built in a garden be counted as garden for requirements of minimum garden area?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,392 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor
    Registered User


    A roof garden can't be built as part of an exempt extension.

    If you are talking about a roof garden on an existing roof as part of calculating the 25m2 then imo it can't be counted either as its not "to the rear" of the house. And it may or may not be solely for the use of the house (as the studio has access too I imagine)


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler
    Moderator


    Can roof gardens on top of single storey studio built in a garden be counted as garden for requirements of minimum garden area?
    Chancer :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭ BlackEdelweiss
    Registered User


    I understand what you mean, I had the same difficulty trying to explain which section of the garden I was talking about but you got it exactly, not directly behind the house but not at the side either. I am waiting for a call back from the council but who knows how long that will take.
    Thanks.
    Mellor wrote: »
    Think Syd mis-read your last post.
    But his advice still applies, check with your own local authority as it depends on how they view it.
    It's one of the greay appears of the exemption rules.

    The problem area is the section of garden that is both behind the rear line of the house and beyond the side line of the house. Strictly speaking it's both to he rear and to the side.

    IMO, the extension must be built fully to the side, but the garden can include the area that is both to the side and behind. I can post a diagram if you don't understanf the area I mean


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,678 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat
    Subscriber


    Is that the case for the open space aswell or just the actual extension? Our house is about 7m wide and our garden is about 14m wide, our extension would be the width of the house so can our open space be taken from the 7m that extends from the potential new side wall or does it have to be directly behind the 7m of the new extension?

    oops, thanks mellor

    yes, i misread your previous post as talking about the extension and not the garden space. The garden space doesnt have to be all to teh rear, as long as its private amenity space. If its to teh front you would want to get clarification from your local authority in the form of a section 5 application.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭✭ goobrien
    Registered User


    Hi,

    I am planning a 40sqm extension to rear of semi d cottage. A flat roof extension of 10sqm containing a bathroom was built on the back of the cottage in the early 70's. Do i have to subtract this 10 sq m from the 40, ie will I only be allowed to build 30sq m extension? I read that only pre 1964 extensions are exempt from this rule. Is this true. could I say the bathroom was added pre 1964 as the Council would not have any records of when it was built. Any help appreciated,

    G


  • Registered Users Posts: 615 Strolling Bones
    Registered User


    goobrien wrote: »
    could I say the bathroom was added pre 1964 as the Council would not have any records of when it was built.

    you will be asking an architect ( who you will need to appoint to certify the exemption ) to prepare a documented lie for you.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭ DOCARCH
    Moderator


    goobrien wrote: »
    Do i have to subtract this 10 sq m from the 40, ie will I only be allowed to build 30sq m extension?

    Yes.

    If you now want to build a 40m.sq. extension...note, in addition to the existing 10m.sq. extension...you will need to apply for planning permission.

    It is unclear from your post if the existing 10m.sq. is to be removed/replaced with the 40m.sq. extension?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭✭ goobrien
    Registered User


    Thanks for reply, existing 10 sq m will remain, new extension will be added to this

    G


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭ DOCARCH
    Moderator


    If you still plan to add 40 m.sq....then planning permission is required.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 21,117 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Pawwed Rig
    Category Moderator


    Sorry for bumping zombie thread but this is related

    I currently have a large shed (old garage) in the back garden (not attached to the house). It is 22 sqm (external walls). Does this limit the size I can build an extension to the back of the house? A solicitor (in a non official capacity) has told me that an extension to the house combined with the garage must stay beneath the 40 sq m


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo
    Moderator


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Sorry for bumping zombie thread but this is related

    I currently have a large shed (old garage) in the back garden (not attached to the house). It is 22 sqm (external walls). Does this limit the size I can build an extension to the back of the house? A solicitor (in a non official capacity) has told me that an extension to the house combined with the garage must stay beneath the 40 sq m

    The shed can be max 24 Sq. M internal area. The extension can be max 40 Sq. M internal area and then you need a minimum of 25 Sq. M of garden space to the rear of the house.

    Some other restrictions apply with regards to height and Windows etc but I'll assume you already know that and are just worried about the area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,392 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor
    Registered User


    The shed can be any size subject to its own approval. It doesn't affect an extension. Solicitor is wrong.

    Extension is limited to 40sq.m. And other restrictions as mentioned above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Nirvana999
    Registered User


    Can I have a 40 sq mts extension AND a seperate shed ( iwould still have 25+ available) ?



  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler
    Moderator




Advertisement