Who calls the shots?, the Coach or the IRFU ...

sxt

How much politics are involved?

Say for instance...Kidney says to the president of the IRFU that he wants to try out 2 new partnerships for the next game in preparation for the world cup...how does that go down ? ?

A.Tomas

How would not having to play Ulster players go down I wonder?

irishbucsfan

A.Tomas wrote: »

How would not having to play Ulster players go down I wonder?

This is such a ridiculous myth.

Ulster are in the Quarter-Finals of the Heineken Cup and there are only 3 of there players in the Irish 22. Munster couldn't qualify and they have 6.

Best is far and away the top hooker in the country when Flannery is out. So his selection is obvious.
Court is the only prop who can effectively cover both sides of the scrum, so he's very valuable when we can only carry 1 replacement prop at international level.
I don't agree with Paddy Wallace being in the 22 jersey, because of our lack of cover for the back three.

So how exactly are Ulster players being favoured? One selection shows a conspiracy does it?



With regards to the OP. I'd doubt the Union would have any power over selections at all. There are some theories, however, that a players contract status (centrally-contracted v. provincially contracted) affects his chances of being selected.

Tim Robbins

If a player is on a national contract and is on 200K a year and a player is on a provincial contract at 50K a year what happens if the provincial lad gets picked?

Now, I wonder why Heaslip, Kearney and a few others didn't make the last World Cup Squad - why Wallace, Earls, D'Arcy get picked ahead of McFadden?

Does the manager know the full details of the players contracts? Who does? And what sort of selection pressure does that mean?

vkid

been wondering about this myself recently..

how much influence do IRFU have over Kidneys decisions. Would be naive to think none imo and some of his decisions are strange to say the least. If the IRFU are paying big bucks to centrally contracted players, will they want to see them playing or would they care?

We'll never really know unless someone breaks rank and tells people in a biography or something..but you do wonder.

Tim Robbins

I wouldn't just say it's just at national level. Say there's an U18's youths panel being put together. It's impossible to look at every single U18 decent player. There has to be an element of politics in it.

And we all have our own opinions. Sure half of us think we know more than Declan Kidney, Paddy Wallace and every ref who refs us. Which is statisically unlikely.

PhatPiggins

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is such a ridiculous myth.

Ulster are in the Quarter-Finals of the Heineken Cup and there are only 3 of there players in the Irish 22. Munster couldn't qualify and they have 6.

Best is far and away the top hooker in the country when Flannery is out. So his selection is obvious.
Court is the only prop who can effectively cover both sides of the scrum, so he's very valuable when we can only carry 1 replacement prop at international level.
I don't agree with Paddy Wallace being in the 22 jersey, because of our lack of cover for the back three.

So how exactly are Ulster players being favoured? One selection shows a conspiracy does it?



With regards to the OP. I'd doubt the Union would have any power over selections at all. There are some theories, however, that a players contract status (centrally-contracted v. provincially contracted) affects his chances of being selected.

Great reply but I wouldn't have bothered to reply to a post that is either uninformed or a wind up.

I thought we'd established that Justin calls all the shots

TheRevolution

why does there always have to be a conspiracy? Maybe EOS and Kidney just make poor selections. Seems a lot more likely to be honest

A.Tomas

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is such a ridiculous myth.

Ulster are in the Quarter-Finals of the Heineken Cup and there are only 3 of there players in the Irish 22. Munster couldn't qualify and they have 6.

Best is far and away the top hooker in the country when Flannery is out. So his selection is obvious.
Court is the only prop who can effectively cover both sides of the scrum, so he's very valuable when we can only carry 1 replacement prop at international level.
I don't agree with Paddy Wallace being in the 22 jersey, because of our lack of cover for the back three.

So how exactly are Ulster players being favoured? One selection shows a conspiracy does it?

Not so sure it's a myth.

Ulster players would get into the team on merit anyway, for sure.

But there have been mumblings about this obligation for years now.

Podge_irl

A.Tomas wrote: »

Not so sure it's a myth.

Ulster players would get into the team on merit anyway, for sure.

But there have been mumblings about this obligation for years now.

Mumblings from who? As far as I'm aware they're nearly all from joe public who decides to read a conspiracy into things. Few, if any, are from anyone who might actually have a clue if it's true.



I find it laughable that people think the IRFU would hamstring themselves by forcing certain players to be picked. Being successful is worth far more to them.

Sin a bhfuil

Tim Robbins wrote: »

If a player is on a national contract and is on 200K a year and a player is on a provincial contract at 50K a year what happens if the provincial lad gets picked?

Now, I wonder why Heaslip, Kearney and a few others didn't make the last World Cup Squad - why Wallace, Earls, D'Arcy get picked ahead of McFadden?

Does the manager know the full details of the players contracts? Who does? And what sort of selection pressure does that mean?

The fact that D'Arcy doesn't have an international contract blows that theory out of the water.

Whatever about Heaslip making the last RWC, Kearney wasn't even first choice for Leinster (Hickie, Girv & Shaggy were Leinster's back three).

Players who don't have international contracts and who played last weekend are Ross, Sean O'Brien, Stringer, Reddan, D'Arcy, Tommy Bowe.

TheRevolution

Its all just complete nonsense. It started to gain considerable momentum when Best was getting picked ahead of Flannery because some people couldn't believe that there were people who rated Best ahead of Flannery.

Its all nonsense.

A.Tomas

Podge_irl wrote: »

Mumblings from who? As far as I'm aware they're nearly all from joe public who decides to read a conspiracy into things. Few, if any, are from anyone who might actually have a clue if it's true.

Well you've heard of the theory so it must be out in the public domain mustn't it.:)

whysomoody

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

The fact that D'Arcy doesn't have an international contract blows that theory out of the water. .

source...

durkadurka

whysomoody wrote: »

source...

That happened last summer, no?

Sin a bhfuil

whysomoody wrote: »

source...

It was reported in the papers that D'Arcy & Horan had lost their central contracts (about Jan 2010). Only IRFU reference you will find to D'Arcy having any sort of a contract is D'Arcy signing a 3 year Ireland & Leinster in 2007.

Horgan & Stringer are another two who lost their central contracts.

jacothelad

A.Tomas wrote: »

How would not having to play Ulster players go down I wonder?

What is this in English?

A.Tomas wrote: »

Not so sure it's a myth.

Ulster players would get into the team on merit anyway, for sure.

But there have been mumblings about this obligation for years now.

The mumblings have been by cretins.

TheRevolution wrote: »

Its all just complete nonsense. It started to gain considerable momentum when Best was getting picked ahead of Flannery because some ill informed and blinkered people couldn't believe that there were people who rated Best ahead of Flannery.

Its all nonsense.

Fixed.

NickDrake

It is well known the Irish team has no have a number of Ulster players in it. This has been around for years and will always be. It is such a shame when it means player like Paddy Wallace and Rory 'Chubby' Best have to get picked and played.

Anyone who tries to save this is a myth havent a clue. Rugby has been in my family for years with cousins and Uncle playing for Ireland, Munster and Ulster and the ALL admit that it is not a myth, even the Ulster side of the family.

CatFromHue

NickDrake wrote: »

It is well known the Irish team has no have a number of Ulster players in it. This has been around for years and will always be. It is such a shame when it means player like Paddy Wallace and Rory 'Chubby' Best have to get picked and played.

Anyone who tries to save this is a myth havent a clue. Rugby has been in my family for years with cousins and Uncle playing for Ireland, Munster and Ulster and the ALL admit that it is not a myth, even the Ulster side of the family.

it might have been the case before but its hard to say really. ulster were traditionally one of the strongest provinces that have lost their way somewhat in the pro game.

in the modern game its only a myth though.

the ulster guys in the squad at the moment are there on merit.

NickDrake

CatFromHue wrote: »

it might have been the case before but its hard to say really. ulster were traditionally one of the strongest provinces that have lost their way somewhat in the pro game.

in the modern game its only a myth though.

the ulster guys in the squad at the moment are there on merit.

Paddy Wallace on merit?

jacothelad

NickDrake wrote: »

It is well known the Irish team has no have a number of Ulster players in it. This has been around for years and will always be. It is such a shame when it means player like Paddy Wallace and Rory 'Chubby' Best have to get picked and played.

Anyone who tries to save this is a myth havent a clue. Rugby has been in my family for years with cousins and Uncle playing for Ireland, Munster and Ulster and the ALL admit that it is not a myth, even the Ulster side of the family.

NickDrake wrote: »

Paddy Wallace on merit?

Total drivel. All good stuff for the feeble minded and those who know feck all squared about rugby though. As for Rory 'Chubby' Best... do you know anything about the game? Perhaps you think the slender beer barrel that is Sean ' even Chubbier' Cronin is the right shape. I bet you wouldn't call Best 'chubby' to his face. I think you've forgotten to take your medication today, the stuff that lets the air to your brain.

NickDrake

jacothelad wrote: »

Total drivel. All good stuff for the feeble minded and those who know feck all squared about rugby though. As for Rory 'Chubby' Best... do you know anything about the game? Perhaps you think the slender beer barrel that is Sean ' even Chubbier' Cronin is the right shape. I bet you wouldn't call Best 'chubby' to his face. I think you've forgotten to take your medication today, the stuff that lets the air to your brain.

Thanks for the insult Ulster fan. Can we get back to the rugby now that the insults are over with??

Rory Best was called chubby in the Sunday Times last weekend.

I'm a Leinster fan.

I find it laughable that you suppose there is a "minimum number" of Ulster players to be picked for an Irish panel.

I find it bizarre that you're questioning the selections of any of the Ulster players that will be involved this weekend, Trimble, Best and Court would be in most people's 22s with every player on the Island of Ireland being fit. P.Wallace's selection can be discussed on a completely different level, but surely if there was this conspiracy ****e going on, that the coach would feel even more obliged to not pick P.Wallace given that there is probably a "quota" worth of Ulster players already involved?

A.Tomas

NickDrake wrote: »

It is well known the Irish team has no have a number of Ulster players in it. This has been around for years and will always be. It is such a shame when it means player like Paddy Wallace and Rory 'Chubby' Best have to get picked and played.

Anyone who tries to save this is a myth havent a clue. Rugby has been in my family for years with cousins and Uncle playing for Ireland, Munster and Ulster and the ALL admit that it is not a myth, even the Ulster side of the family.

Exactly.

A.Tomas

CatFromHue wrote: »

it might have been the case before but its hard to say really. ulster were traditionally one of the strongest provinces that have lost their way somewhat in the pro game.

That's right. They used to be. So it's more likely now.

They're always going to have players in the squad on merit, but do they really have to be on the pitch all the time at any one time?

(like for instance Ferris isn't playing because he's injured otherwise he'd be there on merit, but does that fact have to be compensated with another Ulster player?)

RuggieBear

read the charter.