How much of a difference did new wheels make to you?

billaustin

I did my first race on Saturday in Clonard and struggled if I'm being honest. This was mainly down to not being good enough full stop! However I was wondering whether when people fitted new wheels to their bikes they found an improvement. Essentially I only have the stock wheels that came on the bike and I am going to get new ones (maybe Fulcrum Racing 1s?!) but I was just interested in other people's experiences.
Lol Eventhough I was hammered at the end of the race I did enjoy it and will be back for more until I can stay up there!

Murph100

Well new wheels wont stop you from getting dropped, thats for sure !

However more racing & training will, and thats a LOT cheaper

But back to your original question, unless you have a really bad wheelset at the mo and/or your'e a big fella who needs really strong wheels, you're not going to notice a 'HUGE' difference. These days most of the basic wheelsets like Askiums, Khamsins or Racing 7s are actually quite good, if a little on the heavy side.

Sure a set of Racing 1s are lighter & stiffer, sure they'll help a little bit on the climbs and are a bit faster to spin up, but nothing earth shattering.

A much cheaper upgrade, if you haven't done so already, and one you'd definitely notice would be to put on a decent set of light racing tyres maybe with latex tubes. This would knock a chunk of weight off the rim where it counts and feel a lot better.

DirkVoodoo

Difference? Zipp.

(see what I did, anyone?)

TinyExplosions

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Difference? Zipp.

(see what I did, anyone?)

*sigh*

Lumen

Hypnosis would probably be cheaper.

DirkVoodoo

TinyExplosions wrote: »

*sigh*

Boom!

Honestly, wheels have never made a difference for me outside of how everything looks. So obviously, very important.

Lemag

Those Fulcrums would set you back a fair bit. It might be worth your while to consider a Pro Lite Bracciano set. Much cheaper, light and get great reviews.

petethedrummer

Whenever I'm dropped by someone of similar ability I'm always convinced something is rubbing or there's some sort of extra friction in my wheels, I've even got off to check a few times. Strangely, I never think this when its me dishing out the pain.

BryanL

At high speed deep section wheels make a difference.

If your to be any good at cycling , you must never look for excuses not to spend more money for less weight, more aero, more ceramic or dimples!:D

macnab

I dont know about wheels, but I just changed from a Trek 1.2 which weighs 9.5kg to a Boardman Team Carbon which weighs just under 8kg. I have just done my usual 37km route 6 minutes faster than I ever did it before. Given that my Garmin 305 indicates that both my average and maximum heart rate were only 2bpm above my previous ride, I think it looks like the lighter bike gets the glory. For reference I am a 42 year old male who just got back in the saddle last October, now averaging 28km/h as of today. I have about 250m of climbing on my route with a max of 6%. My time today was 1 hour 18 minutes 2 seconds.

levitronix

Buy a Felt AR1 with zipp 404 tubs you ll never loose again

Hail 2 Da Thief

Lemag wrote: »

It might be worth your while to consider a Pro Lite Bracciano set. Much cheaper, light and get great reviews.

Any idea where one can get the best deal on a set of these? They're €351 in CRC.

DirkVoodoo

Hail 2 Da Thief wrote: »

Any idea where one can get the best deal on a set of these? They're €351 in CRC.

About 240 euro on ribble including delivery I think.

morana

Tire pressure and tyre type can make a big difference. if you hand pumop your tyres then you probably arent getting them to the right pressure. when at your next race ask one of the lads for a loan of their Track pump if you dont have one. Pump to 130psi or whatever it says on the sidewall. If you are using a heavy tyre think about changing it to something more like a michelin pro or Vittoria corsa etc.

I bang on about tyre pressure because having ridden a course a couple of times with different pressure the increase in watts required to do a similar speed was dramatic so get pumpin (your tyres)!

Chips Lovell

1. The gains you make from better wheels are fairly small. They are not going to be the difference between getting dropped or not, or the difference between struggling and feeling fine. Take it from me. I've lots of nice wheels and still can get dropped if I'm not in shape.

2. Buying lightweight clinchers like Fulcrum 1's is probably the worst way of spending your money if you're looking for faster wheels.

thekidd147

billaustin wrote: »

I did my first race on Saturday in Clonard and struggled if I'm being honest. This was mainly down to not being good enough full stop! However I was wondering whether when people fitted new wheels to their bikes they found an improvement. Essentially I only have the stock wheels that came on the bike and I am going to get new ones (maybe Fulcrum Racing 1s?!) but I was just interested in other people's experiences.
Lol Eventhough I was hammered at the end of the race I did enjoy it and will be back for more until I can stay up there!

To be honest bill, I have a set of rusted manic askiums and a set of cosmic carbones slr's and there is very little difference worth talking about. I'm just as crap riding either sets.

Ryaner

macnab wrote: »

I dont know about wheels, but I just changed from a Trek 1.2 which weighs 9.5kg to a Boardman Team Carbon which weighs just under 8kg. I have just done my usual 37km route 6 minutes faster than I ever did it before. Given that my Garmin 305 indicates that both my average and maximum heart rate were only 2bpm above my previous ride, I think it looks like the lighter bike gets the glory. For reference I am a 42 year old male who just got back in the saddle last October, now averaging 28km/h as of today. I have about 250m of climbing on my route with a max of 6%. My time today was 1 hour 18 minutes 2 seconds.

The weight difference between the bikes will make quite a large difference on the hills.

As for the wheels, my Cosmic Carbones definitely make me go faster. They have they lovely whoosh noise while sprinting which adds a couple of km/h.

murph226

My bike looks better with the Aksiums on it, thats good enough for me:D

almost forgot, the freewheel hub sounds way better!

petethedrummer

Since getting wheels built on ultegra hubs, I much prefer silent wheels.

morana

I slightly disagree with most of the people here tbh. I got Zipp 404's 3years ago and as soon as I put them on I noticed a huge difference. Also I remember in a race with a hill (Doreys forge) I flew up it after riding eyeballs out to the foot of it. Now I was well trained at the time but I know the wheels give you an improvement.

But I do agree with the others a good period of training correctly will give you bigger dividends than a set of 1.7K wheels...

BryanL

morana wrote: »

I slightly disagree with most of the people here tbh. I got Zipp 404's 3years ago and as soon as I put them on I noticed a huge difference. Also I remember in a race with a hill (Doreys forge) I flew up it after riding eyeballs out to the foot of it. Now I was well trained at the time but I know the wheels give you an improvement.

But I do agree with the others a good period of training correctly will give you bigger dividends than a set of 1.7K wheels...

Are they Tubs? they are a very light wheelset in tubs and more Aerodynamic than most.

Sacred_git

train harder!! just set out a distance/challenge, you don't have to piss it just make sure you finish it, vary the routes, add a little more to the distance each week/2 weeks. try do it 2 times a week or more, within a month you will notice a difference. Im a mtber, the above is what i do and it works for me, i do have a good bike with high end wheels, i found changing the crank made probably the biggest difference though!!

blorg

Better wheels might help you with the extra centimetre that is the difference between 1st and 2nd in the sprint, but they are not going to stop you getting dropped. The more you race (best training for racing) the better you will get at it.

pprendeville

morana wrote: »

Tire pressure and tyre type can make a big difference. if you hand pumop your tyres then you probably arent getting them to the right pressure. when at your next race ask one of the lads for a loan of their Track pump if you dont have one. Pump to 130psi or whatever it says on the sidewall. If you are using a heavy tyre think about changing it to something more like a michelin pro or Vittoria corsa etc.

I bang on about tyre pressure because having ridden a course a couple of times with different pressure the increase in watts required to do a similar speed was dramatic so get pumpin (your tyres)!

Totally agree with you on this. Got a Joe Blow recently and pumping tyres to 120Psi (thought it would blow up first time I did it even though it said it on tyre to pump to this).

Had previously been using BBB hand pump and I reckon it was only getting tyre ur up to about 60-70Psi if that'd have noticed major difference including unfortunately much more uncomfortable ride when on rough sections of road. I think the pros use lower pressure for races like Paris-Roubaix?

Also recommend getting a bike fit and when off the bike do these exercises in your free time.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/article/training-exercises-you-can-do-off-the-bike-28320

Jawgap

Just curious, but how much do you weigh?

I'm all for spending greater proportions of my diminishing income on blingy bike bits but I've found my biggest increases in speed come when I shed some beefage - not so much on the flat, but my climbing speed increases dramatically from pathetic to just crap with every kilo lost.

Is there scope for dropping some kilos through extra training and might that help with adding some speed, especially on climbs?

billaustin

Thanks for all the good advice guys. Yea I have no intention of going crazy on new wheels, I'm a realist and I know that right now I am not good enough, but that just means I will be entering more races to get better. Experience will help me alot! I will be upgrading my wheels but only in so far as I'll be changing the stock wheels that came on the bike which are name branded to something a bit more rigid that will serve me better. Zipps etc are waaaaaay beyond my ability and price range at the moment, one day maybe. I'm pretty light and don;t carry much weight but it's pretty much an issue of training harder. Thanks again for the good advice guys.

manwithaplan

Sorry to revive this.

I took my newish Fulcrum Zero wheels out for their first spin last night. I had been using the heavyish set that came with the bike.

I found that the ride was much smoother and the cornering was very precise (although the GP 4000s may have more to do with that than the wheels). They also look rather tasty on the bike.

However, the point of this post is that I decided to time myself up the Howth hill climb and I can report that I more or less matched what I had managed on my other wheels (8:40, for those familiar with the route). There may have been a marginal improvement in that I am comparing a March version of myself on a very cold night (but with little wind) with a probably fitter me at an Autumn Boards TT on a warmer evening. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be relying on new wheels to make dramatic improvements.

Jawgap

manwithaplan wrote: »

........

They also look rather tasty on the bike.

.........

Piccies or GTFO!!!:)

billaustin

yes pics please!!

billaustin

Although it is a bit hilarious as I started cycling last year and bought a fairly decent entry level bike, kitted it out, quite happy. Unfortunate accident left me with some money to play around with and as I've grown to love cycling more and doen sportives and now started some racing every time I go on the net I'm picturing tasty new treats for my new bike, man this is expensive!

manwithaplan

Jawgap wrote: »

Piccies or GTFO!!!:)

Don't make me clean the poxy thing!

Will post pics whenever I stick the wheels on again. It's only an Allez but the I think the black tubing goes well with the red spokes.

I will have to buy a new frame to do justice to the wheels. This is like painting the Golden Gate Bridge!

on_the_nickel

My new wheels didn't make much difference, but when I got those new legs, :eek: !

not sane

I have mavic askiums and ksyirum elites and am hard pushed to tell the difference. I think i would go for the ksyrium equipes the next time.

morana

billaustin wrote: »

I'm pretty light and don;t carry much weight but it's pretty much an issue of training harder. Thanks again for the good advice guys.

Dont forget smarter as well...

As for tyre pressure I put in 160psi they are tubs but can go to 220psi but I think at that pressure the fillings would definitely rattle out....and with that saddle I have....sore!

Lumen

morana wrote: »

As for tyre pressure I put in 160psi they are tubs but can go to 220psi but I think at that pressure the fillings would definitely rattle out....and with that saddle I have....sore!

I assume you know that high pressures give worse rolling resistance on rough roads?

uberwolf

Why is that?

Lumen

uberwolf wrote: »

Why is that?

Maybe this helps.

At some point, and this varies depending on the particular tire, the load, and the road surface, the stiffness becomes high enough that some of this energy, instead of being absorbed/returned at the contact patch, is transmitted into the wheel and eventually into other portions of the bike. Since the rider of a bike contacts it in 3 spots, 2 of which can be described as “squishy bits”, this energy is then dissipated (and lost as heat) in the rider itself. That “lost” energy cannot be returned to the road surface and therefore represents an additional “load” that the rider needs to overcome.


And empirically...

fat bloke

Lumen wrote: »

Maybe this helps.

At some point, and this varies depending on the particular tire, the load, and the road surface, the stiffness becomes high enough that some of this energy, instead of being absorbed/returned at the contact patch, is transmitted into the wheel and eventually into other portions of the bike. Since the rider of a bike contacts it in 3 spots, 2 of which can be described as “squishy bits”, this energy is then dissipated (and lost as heat) in the rider itself. That “lost” energy cannot be returned to the road surface and therefore represents an additional “load” that the rider needs to overcome.


And empirically...

Ahhh!!! *Smacks palm to forehead*

Of course!!!!

THAT's why I keep getting dropped at the races!

kennyb3

Just to chip in i doubt there is much difference between say aksiums and elites but i defo think there is a big difference between bog standard wheels and a pair of stiff wheels.

I recently switched from my 2yo giant stock wheels to a set of fulcrum 5's and the difference climbing, sprinting and descending is pretty big. no more brake rub when climbing!:)

doozerie

On the topic of very high tyre pressures leading to worse performance on rough roads, here is a view from Zipp themselves (from here, click on the "Rolling Resistance" tab). Basically the same as what Lumen posted above but in different words but also interesting due to the source of this view:

The Corsa Evo CS will be perfect for that wheel, and I would recommend 100-125 psi (6.9-8.6 bar) depending on your weight. You will want to run 0.2-0.5bar more in the rear than the front to account for weight bias. I personally weigh 155lbs (70kg) and run my tires at 105 psi front (7.2 bar) and 110 psi (7.6 bar) in the rear. When I was racing and lighter I ran them at 100/105, but now that I'm heavier it is safer to run a few extra psi and I may go even higher on bad roads, which has worse rolling resistance, but better protects the wheels from damage in the event of hitting a pothole or something else which could damage a rim or tire. The better option is to run a wider tire at lower pressure on rough roads, but that is just not always feasible, so I would rather have higher rolling resistance and protect the wheels than lower rolling resistance and increased risk of damage to the wheel.

Higher pressure is definitely slower on anything other than perfect surfaces. Think of it in terms of a bunch of 1mm tall bumps in the road. If you have a lower tire pressure, the casing of the tire will deflect over each bump (we'll assume the casing deflects the entire 1mm) converting a small amount of energy into heat as the casing deflects, but the amount of energy necessary to compress the air is almost non-existent. Now at a higher pressure, we will assume that the tire deflects half as much. Now the bike and rider are lifted by 0.5mm and the casing deflects by .5mm, the energy necessary to deflect the casing by .5mm is less than it takes to deflect it by 1mm, but is nothing compared to the amount of energy necessary to lift the bike and rider by 0.5mm, so the end result is that the total energy requirement for the high tire pressure condition is much greater.

The other thing that happens is that on smoother roads, high tire pressures keep the casing from deforming over and into small cracks and crevices and over pebbles, which means that some of the deflection is transferred into the tire tread, which is not as elastic as the casing. Excessive tire wear comes about as the tire rubber begins to fail in shear as it is deformed by the road surface, and this generates heat as well as breaks down the cross-linking within the tread material.... overall, you are using more energy to go slower and you're wearing your tires out faster. The problem is that high tire pressures feel fast as your body perceives all the high frequency vibrations from the road surface as being faster than a smooth ride.

Lennard Zinn had a great analogy when he said that 100kph in a Jeep will scare the crap out of you but 200kph in an S class Mercedes feels effortless...the same is true of bike tire pressures, but it's just hard to convince ourselves of that. As athletes we tend to buy into the 'if some is good, more must be better' philosophy, but this is rarely true. Of course the tire manufacturers have given up on this and continue to try and make higher pressure tires as that's what the consumers demand, as I think that they've decided that it is easier to just give people what they think they want than to try to educate and argue with them :-)

doozerie

And on the topic of the potential benefits of "better" wheels, whatever about the quality of the wheels themselves one thing you should definitely check is how well adjusted the bearings and freehub are. Even very good wheels will not roll very well if the hub bearings are very tight, and very loose isn't good either. You should be able to assume that new wheels of any decent quality will be well adjusted from the day you buy them and that they'll remain like that for many miles of use but it isn't always the case so it is worth checking the hubs every now and again.

As an example, the freehub on my Mavic Ksyrium SL's didn't roll very smoothly from the start, but improved after I cleaned and re-oiled it.