Suggestions for a HTPC please

Khannie

So.....I'm about to get myself some satellite goodness. I need something that can:

hardware decode 1080p mpeg4 video
record the satellite feed (preferably two feeds, one for viewing, one for recording)
has enough disk space to store a reasonable amount of recorded high def video (I presume this is 1080i)
is really frickin' quiet / entirely silent
can run linux (I want to run myth or yavdr)
has a very low power footprint

I'm wide open to suggestion. Happy to build or buy off the shelf.

Alfreado

This doesn't meet your full HD requirement but, I have a dell optiplex gx620 connected via hdmi and I find it fantastic. 3ghz dual core, 1gb ram, 40gb hdd just for the operating system and few programs, 2tb WD external hdd for movies etc, have it running vista (had a copy laying around) with my movies 3 for windows media centre.

As for noise, its as quiet if not quieter than my ps3. The fan spins up a bit IF I use it to copy a film onto the hdd but I don't usually use it for that, the aul laptop does it faster.

I havent tried to copy a blu ray onto it yet, just because of the size of them, so I don't know how much of the quality would be lost but I have read its not supposed to be too noticable to the average joe.

As for recording tv etc, I don't do it but it can be done with a tv tuner through windows media centre as well.

Hope thats some help?

Khannie

Thanks Alfreado. That optiplex is a bit too big and power hungry. I'm thinking along the lines of this bad boy now. It has room in it for a PCI-Express card which I could use for the DVB-S2 card and a 2.5 inch hard drive. I think total cost would come in around the 350 mark which is pretty reasonable.

I definitely want to run something linux based on it. I just can't remember how to use windows any more.

Voodu Child

At this stage I would probably go for an E-350 setup rather than Atom+Ion.

Khannie

Really? I have an ATI card in my current (ancient) HTPC and I hate it. Their linux driver support has always been poor (or at least it was until I stopped considering them for anything linux based).

Alfreado

Oh I forgot to say its one of the small factor ones, the little silver fella with black in the middle... lovely compact little unit. I was kinda of on a tight budget though

The spec on the one in your link looks considerably most impressive than my little system! Whats the going rate for a case for something like that?

Voodu Child

Khannie wrote: »

Really? I have an ATI card in my current (ancient) HTPC and I hate it. Their linux driver support has always been poor (or at least it was until I stopped considering them for anything linux based).

Its a bit faster than an Atom+Ion (particularly the GPU), draws less power, and it should be about the same or a bit cheaper.

It's available in mATX as well, so there's a bit more choice in terms of how slots, ports etc.

kaisersose77

think the nvidia gpu's are preferred for linux.

Using an acer revo 3610, ubuntu, tvheadend with 5 dvb-s2 usb tuners, xbmc and a 2tb esata harddrive. Working great so far and ticks all the requirements in the first post. I'm gone overboard with the tuners atm but the plan is to have xbmc clients in each room (maybe cheap apple tv2's) and they can access the tv channels from the main pc.

Khannie

Voodu Child wrote: »

Its a bit faster than an Atom+Ion (particularly the GPU), draws less power, and it should be about the same or a bit cheaper.

It's available in mATX as well, so there's a bit more choice in terms of how slots, ports etc.

Thanks. I'll look into it more carefully. Like Kaisersose says though, nvidia is generally preferred for linux.

Alfreado wrote: »

The spec on the one in your link looks considerably most impressive than my little system! Whats the going rate for a case for something like that?

The cases are cheap. Like 40 euro ish. I think I could have everything (including hard drive, ram, case and dual DVB-S2 card) for around 350 euro. I might be living in a dream world mind you. I haven't really done the sums yet.

kaisersose77 wrote: »

think the nvidia gpu's are preferred for linux.

Using an acer revo 3610, ubuntu, tvheadend with 5 dvb-s2 usb tuners, xbmc and a 2tb esata harddrive.

Good god man! 5 USB tuners! Have you not got cables all over the place? I hadn't considered streaming though. That could work really well.

What's the CPU load on the revo like with the 5 USB tuners as well?

I think I'd rather get 2 x dual PCI-E tuners and build my own if I was going down a similar route. xbmc on the apple tv for streaming could work really well I think.

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Working great so far and ticks all the requirements in the first post. I'm gone overboard with the tuners atm but the plan is to have xbmc clients in each room (maybe cheap apple tv2's) and they can access the tv channels from the main pc.

Is there a CPU cost for streaming? I'd just be worried that an atom based machine wouldn't have the horsepower to deal with that.

kaisersose77

Have it recording 3 different FTA HD channels now and 2 SD channels while watching a 1080p mkv and cpu isnt maxed out.

I dont think streaming to 5 clients will be a problem with sd channels anyways and hopefully isnt a problem for HD channels either.

With xbmc being ported to the ipad and probably android tablets at some stage, it will be possible to stream tv to them too.


You'll have to do your research when looking for dvb-s2 tuners for linux as a lot have problems.

Khannie

Older ION should be fine for this, right? Half considering this now.

kaisersose77

Ye mine's an older ion. Only problem is finding dvb-s2 cards that work without problems with linux. In my case I got tevii s650's which work great for me, but they were replaced by tevii s660's. Bought one of them and had nothing but problems (slow channel changes was one), so i stopped using it.

Best to see what card you want to get and then look for a system that will work with it.

Khannie

Looks like driver issues with the 660 have been solved. Just as well because I've been looking at this which is basically just two 660's in one card.

kaisersose77

where did you see that the driver issue was solved for the s660? Might get some use out of the 2 i have left in a press.

pug_

Hey Khannie,

I've was doing a little investigation into something similar myself lately for much the same reason as yourself. I didn't get as far as the satellite tuner but I thought you might be interested in a little rundown of motherboards and pre-built systems I came across..

http://www.linuxtech.net/features/nvidia_ion_products_overview.html

My favourite motherboard at the moment is the ASUS ATOM 330 AT3IONT-I S/V/L Mini ITX Motherboard

Can't remember exactly why now, but it's a nice little board.

Khannie

kaisersose77 wrote: »

where did you see that the driver issue was solved for the s660? Might get some use out of the 2 i have left in a press.

Here you go. Looks like the new driver is only a few weeks old.

Khannie

Pug: Myself and Ginja are doing a satellite system (he already has his 95% set up). I'm buying stuff soon if you want to jump in on the buy to save on shipping let me know. The total list of stuff is:

dish
quad LNB
mounting
cabling
(we're paying a guy to do the cabling, though I will mount and align the dish myself).

Then the HTPC:
board (I had also been considering that asus one you linked. It's on hardwareversand for 110 euro)
case
dual DVB-S2 pci express card (this negates the need for an extra external power supply which the USB ones need)
ram
hard drives

It's a total of 3 purchases from what I can see. 1 for the dish stuff, 1 for the DVB card and 1 for the HTPC stuff. Trying to keep the shipping to a minimum.

I'm ditching the raid 5 based file server I have upstairs and probably putting 2 x 1TB 2.5" drives in the new HTPC. Between replacing the P4 based HTPC and turning off the file server I reckon the new HTPC will pay for itself in electricity savings in about 18 - 24 months (I'm guessing though). The current one has been running for 5 years now, so I'm buying this one to run a similar amount of time.

pug_

Oh interesting, I'll have a little chat with Liz later on and see what she says. I've been wanting to move away from paid TV for a while now, complete waste of money for what we watch. I've kind of been waiting for XBMC to get their act together with their PVR support, but there is a myth plugin that could be used in the interm.

Also FYI, little rundown of motherboards etc specific to HTPC from same site as last link...

http://www.linuxtech.net/features/best_linux_htpc_motherboards.html

Khannie

Here's the current hardware list:

RAM (probably overkill, but not to worry ): http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38025&agid=1419
Case (includes PSU): http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=24396&agid=1199
Motherboard / CPU / GPU: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=35706&agid=1391
HDD: http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38561&agid=1284

pug_

I have the very same hdd's in my home server and I can recommend them, nice and quiet.

Alfreado

God I wish I hadn't seen this... Has me seriously thinking of selling my little unit and putting together something more, interesting!! Damn you

Khannie

Parts have all arrived. Let the fun begin. \o/

Khannie

Well, I put it together last night and installed the OS (went with yavdr for now). The hard drive is *incredibly* quiet and it's kinda weird turning the computer on and hearing no noise. The lack of fans is brilliant. The case is larger than it needs to be because of the need for a pci-express slot for the dvb-s card so unfortunately there's a lot of empty space inside. I'll take some pics and post them up at some point over the next few days.

Alfreado

because of this thread I ditched my old optiplex and bought a dedicated htpc... I hope your happy with yourself!!!!!

Khannie

user1842

Hi im currently thinking about the below setup for a HTPC:

Dell Zino PC (3GB RAM, AMD Athlon™ II X2 P360 procecssor, Integrated ATI HD4250 Mobility Radeon graphics)

Running Windows Media Centre 7

2 X TBS Qbox 3 DVB-S2 usb tuners

1 X MyGica T803 DVB-T usb tuner

What you think?

Does anyone have any experience with the above turners/pc? Do they work well etc?

deadduck

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Hi im currently thinking about the below setup for a HTPC:

Dell Zino PC (3GB RAM, AMD Athlon™ II X2 P360 procecssor, Integrated ATI HD4250 Mobility Radeon graphics)

Running Windows Media Centre 7

2 X TBS Qbox 3 DVB-S2 usb tuners

1 X MyGica T803 DVB-T usb tuner

What you think?

Does anyone have any experience with the above turners/pc? Do they work well etc?

would a custom built PC with a PCI tuner, ie. a blackgold BGT3595, not be tidier and cheaper. the zino is a nice machine, but the need for external tuners take away from it a bit

user1842

deadduck wrote: »

would a custom built PC with a PCI tuner, ie. a blackgold BGT3595, not be tidier and cheaper. the zino is a nice machine, but the need for external tuners take away from it a bit

Needs to be as small and quiet as possible.

The external turners can be hidden away I think.

My worry is if the Zino is fast enough for three turners especially when you are recording one channel and watching the other.

user1842

dmclean1842 wrote: »

Needs to be as small and quiet as possible.

The external turners can be hidden away I think.

My worry is if the Zino is fast enough for three turners especially when you are recording one channel and watching the other.

The blackgold BGT3595 looks like a class bit of kit.

Could you recommend the smallest, quietest miro/mini PC this could fit into?

Khannie

Yeah, I have to say, external dvb-s tuners for the lose. They require an external power source that internal ones do not. I got a dual pci-express tuner for around the same price as two external usb ones and it's a whole lot tidier. You can get a tiny usb based dvb-t tuner and that should see you sorted. I'll post you up pics of my lovely build over the weekend. It could definitely have been done in a smaller case (as you'll see from the pics, there is a lot of empty space inside the case), I just wasn't arsed ordering from a different supplier. My whole box will be hidden away though (underneath a piece of furniture that will conveniently completely hide it) with just a usb infra-red receiver for remote control goodness showing itself.

As for quietness....I genuinely had trouble telling if mine had turned on. There isn't a single fan in the system. Well impressed with the motherboard.

Khannie

dmclean1842 wrote: »

The blackgold BGT3595 looks like a class bit of kit.

Could you recommend the smallest, quietest miro/mini PC this could fit into?

It's a very nice piece of kit alright.

As for what it'll fit into: You're looking at a mini-itx board and a box to hold it that has room for an expansion card. There should be quite a few options out there depending on your budget. I am very, very fond of my motherboard though (while I haven't really used it much yet, the silence, dual core goodness + ion2 already make it a winner in my book). You'll probably need a pci-express riser cable so just be aware of that.

Khannie

Here are some cases (some of them suitable).

http://mini-itx.com/store/?c=3

Alun

Khannie wrote: »

I am very, very fond of my motherboard though (while I haven't really used it much yet, the silence, dual core goodness + ion2 already make it a winner in my book). You'll probably need a pci-express riser cable so just be aware of that.

I'm looking at that same MB as a possible candidate, but I'm worried about any pci-e cards mounted on a riser card fouling the heatsink. Have you got your tuner card yet and can you confirm it fits OK? Does the case not come with a riser card, seeing as that's the only way to mount it in that case?

Actually, there seems to be a bit of a dearth of mini-itx cases that a) look OK, b) don't cost the earth (i.e. not Silverstone) and c) can take a pci-e card for an internal tuner so this one looks interesting.

Khannie

Alun wrote: »

I'm looking at that same MB as a possible candidate, but I'm worried about any pci-e cards mounted on a riser card fouling the heatsink. Have you got your tuner card yet and can you confirm it fits OK?

I have the card, but not the riser cable (note: not riser card, it's a ribbon cable that I bought off ebay). In the end, the card will face away from the motherboard. If you look at this picture of the case, the motherboard takes up the right hand side and the expansion cards go on the left. The case actually has room for two pci-express cards.

Alun wrote: »

Does the case not come with a riser card, seeing as that's the only way to mount it in that case?

Fair point, but no, no riser with it.

Alun wrote: »

Actually, there seems to be a bit of a dearth of mini-itx cases that a) look OK, b) don't cost the earth (i.e. not Silverstone) and c) can take a pci-e card for an internal tuner so this one looks interesting.

Yeah, very true. This one isn't even super pretty (though it is nice, it's not drop dead gorgeous or whatever). It's bigger than I would have liked, but as you say, with room for the pci-express card it's generally those horrible cube shaped yokes. Also, for 55 euro including a power supply, it's very reasonable money.

Alun

Interesting .. I'd be interested in seeing some photos of the inside when it's all put together.

Khannie

Image of the insides as promised. Click for larger.



Top right is the hdd. Top left (wires mess) is the cases inbuilt PSU. Bottom right is the tevii card. You can see the ribbon cable attached to it that hooks it up to the motherboard. Bottom left is the motherboard itself. There's a lot of air inside the case. It would definitely be possible to squeeze it into a smaller area, but I'm not terribly concerned about that. The silence is golden.

I couldn't find the top of the case last night. I'll take another pic when it's on.

Alun

@Khannie. That case looks pretty full .. how are the temps in there? Also, is there room for a DVD/BD drive of any sort?
Also how are you getting on with yadvr?

Khannie

Alun wrote: »

@Khannie. That case looks pretty full .. how are the temps in there? Also, is there room for a DVD/BD drive of any sort?

Temps are low enough (though I haven't measured directly, you can touch the heatsink without burning). The only real source of heat is that heatsink and the case has lots of holes directly above it to let the heat out.

There's room for a laptop sized bd / dvd player. It would go on top of the hdd. There's a bracket for it with the case, I just don't have it in that pic.

Alun wrote: »

Also how are you getting on with yadvr?

Getting on ok with it so far. I need about 2 hours to configure it properly that I haven't had yet (no remote working yet for example). Just been mental busy. I'll probably get to it this weekend though. There are some nice plugins for it but it's not as pretty as myth so far (I haven't tried xbmc on it yet mind you).

Khannie

Oh...meant to add. One thing I really like about the case is that the hdd is secured with rubber bungs. This makes it super, super quiet (though it's already a quiet hdd).

I'll shut up about the silence now.

coba

Khannie wrote: »

Oh...meant to add. One thing I really like about the case is that the hdd is secured with rubber bungs. This makes it super, super quiet (though it's already a quiet hdd).

I'll shut up about the silence now.

Nice looking HTPC you got there.
Ive a decent Win7 MCE HTPC but its tuners aren't dvb-s2 compatible?
A couple of questions if i may

• You may have mentioned it along the way, but are you running Win7 MCE ?

• Does your spec have twin dvd-s2 and dvb-t tuners?

• And , ballpark,how much would your HTPC cost to buy, in components if i ordered one.

Khannie

coba wrote: »

• You may have mentioned it along the way, but are you running Win7 MCE ?

No, I'm using yavdr. It's a linux based solution.

coba wrote: »

• Does your spec have twin dvd-s2 and dvb-t tuners?

I have twin dvb-s2 alright, but no dvb-t yet. I'll add it in there at some point.

coba wrote: »

• And , ballpark,how much would your HTPC cost to buy, in components if i ordered one.

I'm guessing because it was a while ago, but 350 ish I'd say.