Civil Defence NCD

Corsendonk

Anyone in the Civil Defence here? Just wondering with the Japanese Earthquake and the tremendous planning that the Japanese had in place for dealing with natural disasters and crisis planning, what the planning is like in NCD in regard to dealing with a major natural disasters or a nuclear or chemical crisis? Those of us all old enough remember the Cartoon "When the Wind Blows".

P.S I never did get my Iodine Tablets.

Martron

i remeber seeing the pack of iodine tablets.

i personally would be worried of the ability to deal with a crisis like that.

not from a goverment point of view. but from a common sense point of view.

But i would imagine money would not be spent on improbable plans. But saying that........ the country was paralysed by the snow essentially ( due to people overreacting most cases. I personally was not too effected by it )

Pigeon Reaper

There are emergency plans in place for major incidents and there is equipment available. However CD has moved away from nuclear incidents since the end of the cold war. They're now focused on more likely events such as flooding, extreme weather, fires etc. CD still have welfare sections for providing food and shelter for large numbers of people in the event of an emergency but if something on the scale of the japanese disaster hit these would be overwhelmed. DFB have resources for setting up decontamination areas in case of a chemical/nuclear accident. As for the snow once extra resources were requested by the county councils all emergency services could function normally again.

Martron

think the powers that be coped as well as they could with the facilities they had. the point i was making was that the actions of some people made their task unnessecarily difficult.

how is ireland fixed for the likes of bunkers and where would the nearest "safe location" be to NCD?

Morpheus

Martron wrote: »

think the powers that be coped as well as they could with the facilities they had. the point i was making was that the actions of some people made their task unnessecarily difficult.

how is ireland fixed for the likes of bunkers and where would the nearest "safe location" be to NCD?

Safest place to NCD?

in the event of a nuclear incident?

THE WEST COAST!!!

Martron

ha ha i dont mean in a nuclear blast as in i dont think i would have oto worry too much about surviving it.

i mean hypothetically in the event of an earthquake or any other event.

as in you see in other countries they have designated Shelters or areas.

where would be big enough to cope with people . Croke park? aviva?

Corsendonk

Martron wrote: »

ha ha i dont mean in a nuclear blast as in i dont think i would have oto worry too much about surviving it.

i mean hypothetically in the event of an earthquake or any other event.

as in you see in other countries they have designated Shelters or areas.

where would be big enough to cope with people . Croke park? aviva?

Earthquake wouldn't be anywhere near the scale of the Pacific Ring of Fire so you can move that off your list.

Irish Times 1997

Ireland is a very stable land with little risk of a major earthquake. The early annals record earthquakes felt in Ireland, but most did little or no damage. An exception occurred in Co. Sligo in 1490 when it is recorded that 100 people were killed along with many horses and cows, and a lake opened up.
Most earthquakes felt in Ireland are minor and many of them originate in Britain or in the Irish Sea. There is a zone along the Irish coast from Cork to Dublin that is active and produces small earthquakes from time to time. The most active area is near Enniscorthy in Co. Wexford. In 1985 this centre produced an earthquake of magnitude 2 on the Richter scale. Activity was also reported in September 1988.

Irish earthquakes are minor events caused by the relaxation of stressed rocks. They are not connected with plate movement. The nearest plate boundary to Ireland is the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which is about 2,500 kms to the west. This is an active area and it is not impossible, although highly unlikely, that a major earthquake on the ridge could cause damage in Ireland. In 1755 such an earthquake destroyed Lisbon, killing 60,000 people. The damage was completed by a tidal wave. These waves are produced at the sea bottom by the earthquake shock. They have great energy and wreak havoc when they reach land. Perhaps ancient tales of huge unexpected waves hitting the Irish coast record tidal waves produced by earthquakes in the Mid-Atlantic.

Nuclear accident would be a Fall out zone rather than destruction in a nuclear blast unless Dublin got hit by a nuclear missile attack.
If its Alien invasion your worried about you better move to Switzerland.

Martron

thanks corsendonk.

i am well aware of the geographical location of ireland in relation to tectonic plate movement.

i was speaking hypothetically and was more intrested in the facilities rather than the event that would cause the disaster.

Corsendonk

Martron wrote: »

thanks corsendonk.

i am well aware of the geographical location of ireland in relation to tectonic plate movement.

i was speaking hypothetically and was more intrested in the facilities rather than the event that would cause the disaster.

Well we dont have shelters, the Civil defence control centres were set up as bunkers but they were never really more than communication stations. I think this Dail question and answer from 1996 is still relevant perhaps the publications mentioned have been updated and are available online otherwise you better hope the Swiftpost option is pretty good:D

Dáil Éireann - Volume 463 - 26 March, 1996

Written Answers. - Nuclear Shelters.

Mr. D. Ahern Mr. D. Ahern

855

[855] 415. Mr. D. Ahern asked the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications the current position regarding existing, or proposed, nuclear shelters in Dublin and throughout the country; the persons authorised to use them in the event of a nuclear disaster; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6530/96]

Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications (Mr. Lowry) Michael Lowry

Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications (Mr. Lowry): There are no plans in existence or proposed for nuclear shelters in Dublin and throughout the country for use in the event of a nuclear accident in peacetime. In the event of an accident involving a nuclear installation, the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland will provide advice to the Government on measures to be taken for the protection of members of the Irish public. These measures will depend upon the severity of the accident and the degree to which Ireland would be affected. It is not envisaged that such an accident would require the provision of special nuclear shelters.

Details of the nuclear accident emergency plan are set out in the booklet “National Emergency Plan for Nuclear Accidents” published in 1992 by my Department.

I am informed by the Department of Defence that in a wartime emergency situation, special purpose-built shelters are not considered necessary and policy is based on the idea of domestic refuge rooms prepared by householders themselves with the aid of advice provided by the Department of Defence. Such advice is conveyed in a booklet which is available from the Department of Defence.

Dáil Éireann 463 Written Answers. Nuclear Shelters.

Questions

It seems the Irish policy on bunkers was that we are neutral and nobody would bother attacking us or a nuclear accident will never happen. Its really the same policy that we equipped the Irish armed forces with, hide behind the white flag and sure everyone likes us.

The Swiss remark I made is very interesting because they are also famously neutral too and they have took a different route. Under Swiss law local governments must provide shelter space for everyone. Incidentally a modest sized Swiss village most likely has enough arnaments to wipe out Gormanstown Military Camp.


BBC 2007

Many historians will agree the fall of the Berlin Wall marked the end of the Cold War, but in Switzerland the threat of nuclear war has left an unexpected legacy.


The Sonnenberg tunnel contains the world's largest nuclear shelter
If you are driving through Switzerland, south to Italy, you are likely to take the route via the charming town of Lucerne and that means driving through the Sonnenberg tunnel.

Those tunnels around Lucerne can be quite irritating, especially in fine weather. Just as you are enjoying a spectacular view of the lake and the mountains, you are plunged into darkness.

But when you get to the Sonnenberg, make sure your eyes adjust, and take a closer look, for this is much more than a tunnel. In here is the world's largest nuclear shelter.

Under Swiss law, local governments are required to provide shelter spaces for everyone, and in the early 1970s Lucerne was short by several thousand. The new Sonnenberg motorway tunnel, just being built, seemed a neat solution: kit it out as a nuclear shelter as well and it could hold 20,000 people.

The Sonnenberg, in theory, is able to withstand a one megaton nuclear bomb, as close as half a mile away

"Actually we got the idea from you British," explains Werner Fischer, the local civil protection chief, as he shows me around. "Londoners used the underground as shelter during the blitz."

Well maybe, but believe me, there are things in the Sonnenberg that you will never find down the Finchley Road tube station.

'Engineering feat'


It starts with the doors, which are a metre and a half thick (5ft), and weigh 350 tonnes each. The Sonnenberg, in theory, is able to withstand a one megaton nuclear bomb, as close as half a mile away.


The shelter was designed to be self-sufficient
One megaton is 70 Hiroshimas. That means the Sonnenberg residents would have emerged to a world reduced not to smoking rubble, but to ash.

Inside, the tunnel is a surreal monument to neutral Switzerland's desire to survive a total war which would, naturally, have been started and waged by someone else.

Every eventuality has been thought of.

There are vast sleeping quarters, with bunk beds four layers deep. There is an operating theatre, a command post, and as Mr Fischer points out, a prison. "Just because there's a nuclear war outside doesn't mean we won't have any social problems in here," he says.


Some of my friends have private ones in their own houses, used, these days, mostly to store wine or skis.


There were even, it is rumoured, plans for a post office, until someone asked the obvious question "when the world outside is burning, who would you write to? What would the address be, not to mention who would deliver your letter?"

Then there are the coloured lights, indicating whether it is night or day outside. Obviously the country which produces the world's top watches would not like to lose track of time.

There are some truly impressive feats of engineering: the air filters, designed to supply those 20,000 souls with 192 cubic metres each of non-radioactive air every day, are indeed breathtaking. So large, the hall they are housed in has the dimensions of a medieval cathedral.

But while the Sonnenberg may be the biggest shelter, it is by no means the only one. Many shelters are now being used a storage spaces In fact, there are over a quarter of a million of them in Switzerland, because, 17 years after the end of the Cold War, the policy of providing shelters for the entire population still stands.

Some of my friends have private ones in their own houses, used, these days, mostly to store wine or skis. My house, though does not have one. An anxious telephone call to my local civil protection office brings a reassuring answer. "Actually your community has 40% overcapacity in shelters," I'm told.

It turns out that, should the unthinkable happen, I have got a luxury of choice. I can settle into a cosy neighbourhood shelter designed for 10. Sounds good, as long as my family and the neighbours we get on with get there first.

Or, there is a larger shelter, beneath the local fire station, which those without private shelters would share with the firemen. I can see it is not going to be the easiest of decisions.

And down on the main street of my village, new houses are going up, the bulldozers are digging remarkably deep and blast resistant concrete is arriving by the tonne.

But why add an estimated 4% to the house price, just to carry on preparing for a threat that has gone away?

Until the law changes, bunkers will continue to be dug

Karl Widmer, deputy director of Switzerland's civil defence department, looks a little sheepish when I put this to him.

"We asked ourselves this question," he admits. "But then we thought, we've built all these things, so let's just carry on. And there could be new threats around the corner."

"What threats exactly?" snorts a Social Democrat member of parliament. "Bird flu? Terrorism? An underground bunker won't protect against that. It's time we stopped this nonsense, all we're doing is building very expensive wine cellars."

Later this year, the Swiss government will decide whether to continue the shelters-for-all policy, but this week, sirens right across Switzerland were tested, and the population had to check their bunkers were up to scratch.

The monstrous Sonnenberg shelter though, is being gradually dismantled. But not because it has finally been deemed unnecessary: no, no, the real problem is those 350 tonne blast doors. When they were tested, they would not shut.

midonogh

Martron wrote: »

think the powers that be coped as well as they could with the facilities they had. the point i was making was that the actions of some people made their task unnessecarily difficult.

how is ireland fixed for the likes of bunkers and where would the nearest "safe location" be to NCD?

There is a nuclear bunker outside Ballymena. You could make a break for there but you would have to share it with a bunch of us nordies

Corsendonk

Perhaps I should contact my local TDs about the lack of bunkers in NCD?



BBC News

3 May 2011
Sellafield nuclear site terror arrests made Five men are being held under the Terrorism Act after being arrested close to the Sellafield nuclear site in Cumbria, according to police.

The men, who are all from London and aged in their 20s, were arrested on Monday shortly after 1630 BST.

The arrests were made after Civil Nuclear Constabulary officers conducted a stop check on a vehicle close to the Sellafield site, in Cumbria.

The men were held in Carlisle overnight and are being moved to Manchester.

The BBC's Fiona Trott said the men were thought to have been filming and were all Bangladeshi.

The North West Counter Terrorism Unit is leading the investigation

LeoB

If there was an attack on Sellafield I would not like to be even here in N.C.D with the wind we have had since last week.

Events over the week end might make Sellafield a target for extremists.

Congrats to Elton John on his new hit single the tribute to Bin Laden, "Sandles in the Bin";)

I do think however we should have a bigger and better Civil Defence to assist at times of extreme weather and serious accidents to just support the great men and women who are on the front line, Gardái, Fire and Ambulance crews, search and rescue.......