Question about electrics

Saruman

My camper is a homebuild but one I did not do myself (previous owners).

My leisure battery is charged while driving. I have a switch up front to do that.

It does not get recharged when on the mains.
Also the camper electrics such as pump and lights run off the battery but not the mains.

This means that even if I'm on a campsite and hooked up to the mains, my lights run off the leisure battery which will eventually die, perhaps by the next day.

I would like my leisure battery to be recharged by the mains and so keep my lights etc working.

That is the way your average camper works right? If I'm going about it wrong then let me know.

Do I just need one of these? Or something simpler?

spaceHopper

That or a zig unit which does 12 V distrobution to lights, fridge, water pump and mostly simple charging ...... depending no how far from charls camping you live you could go up an talk to them and get first hand advice but the unit you've linked looks like a very good charger and it wouldn't be hard to fit but make sure there is plenty of ventulation around it. It only works up to 50C and will get hot if the battery in very low. No real risk of fire just will work better and live longer if you keep it cool.

You existing battery is charged by a split charge relay off the engine or in your case a switch? Normally that will charge you battery to about 70% and you shoudn't let it go below 20%. If it's only lasting none night then I put it on a mains charger for a while to bring it up to 100% and see how you get on. Halfords do a good one. http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_11101_catalogId_15551_productId_210939_langId_-1_categoryId_212463 I use it on my car but it does leisure batteries as well. If you are still having problems then your battery may be shot and you'd be better off getting a new one. Soon after I got my camper the battery died. Any idea how old the battey is?

If you have a volt meter measure the battery voltage when the engine has been off for while and see what it is. If it 12V OK if it's 10.5 then you have one dead cell and it's time for a new battery.

Buford T Justice

That unit you've linked to is just the ticket. I've got a very similar one in my own self build conversion.

If you're not confident with the wiring, then I'd suggest you get someone to do the install for you.

Saruman

Came across this youtube video which seems to be along the lines of what I have and what I want to do.

Essentially I can run a circuit off the 240v system to the charger space hopper linked to. That would charge my leisure battery on the hook up.

It also looks like it might be useful to fit an inverter like he has but its not a priority right now. I imagine I just run it off the leisure battery.

Ah the money pit that is a camper van. There is always something that needs doing.

Right now I am putting in a reversing camera and learning the electrics layout as I go along.

spaceHopper wrote: »

If you have a volt meter measure the battery voltage when the engine has been off for while and see what it is. If it 12V OK if it's 10.5 then you have one dead cell and it's time for a new battery.

Is that the same as a multimeter? I have a multimeter, not that I know what most of the functions do

spaceHopper

Saruman wrote: »

Is that the same as a multimeter? I have a multimeter, not that I know what most of the functions do

Yes the same thing.
Maybe your battey is dead? Ask around and see if you can borrow a charger for a few days.

If you are using the van for just weekend I wouldn't worry to much about a mains charger. Took the battery out of my van and put it on charge so that it's 100% full for this weekend and to give it a good start to the year. Charger switched over to mantiance after two minutes so the engine must be keeping it full. I use the camper a good bit over the winter surfing....

Saruman

I set the multimeter to 20v and tested the battery. Van has not run in days. It read 1275 which I imagine is 12.75v?

Chuffed with myself for getting the reversing camera wired up. Actually I wired it as a rear view mirror so I can leave it on if I like and see what is behind me but it will mainly be used for reversing/parking.

It is running off the 12v leisure battery system which charges when I drive. I have a separate switch so I can turn it off completely just in case it uses power when the unit itself is turned off (soft button so might be in standby otherwise).

Aidan_M_M

yep thats correct , and is a good reading . turn on a light , and see if it drops rapidly.

Saruman

I have had enough tinkering with the camper van today. I am wrecked and I reckon it's time for a beer (Good thing I have 2 on tap )

I will probably test it out over the weekend. The lights in the camper seem to be ones from B&Q. They are low voltage ones but I have seen them in B&Q. It is probably the pump which uses most of the electricity though.

There are twin DVD players which are supposed to work but never have since I got it. Probably a bad cable somewhere. It goes in behind paneling which would be a nightmare to take off.
Any idea how to use the multimeter to test one of those round ac adapter plugs? The regular kind you use for laptops etc. Like this one.

spaceHopper

Saruman wrote: »

Any idea how to use the multimeter to test one of those round ac adapter plugs? The regular kind you use for laptops etc. Like this one.

Set it to Volts DC an put the one probe in the centre (this is normally positave) and the other on the outside metal part. Should read about 15V it will say on the lable what the output voltage is.

Buford T Justice

Just remember as its DC when you measure between two terminals you may get a negative reading.

EG, if you put the red probe from the meter to the - of the battery and the black to the + then it will give you something like -12.75V whereas if you swap the terminals then you will get 12.75V if you get what I mean.

IS that what's powering the DVD players? If so, then its a mains powered system and won't work unless there's 240V or an inverter in the van.

What van do you have?

Saruman

It's a converted van but converted by the previous owners.

I am not sure what is powering the DVD players but they warned me to unplug the power chord when not in use or it will drain the main battery so I reckon it is simply hooked up to the van electrics and not the leisure system.
It is certainly not 240v as they would use it for the kids on the way to a camp site. There was never an inverter on the van either.

The pic I linked to was only to show the end point, or what it pretty much looks like. They are car dvd players that would normally use a cigarette lighter connection which has probably been cut off and hooked up to a cable running to the van battery.

It is also possible the dvd player is simply dead. I will know when I can confirm if there is any power coming from the cable or not.

If there is no power, I will probably be better running a new cable than trying to find out where the problem lies.

Buford T Justice

Probably yes. If you look at the transformers that are there, what's the input voltage and the output voltage respectively?

You can test the power going in to see if you are getting 12V in to the traffo, and if not you can try a separate supply into it, to see if that sorts it. If not it could be the traffo's themselves.

Any chance of some pics of the van? I'd be interested in seeing another example of a self build, as i'm nearly finished mine.

Saruman

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Any chance of some pics of the van? I'd be interested in seeing another example of a self build, as i'm nearly finished mine.

I am pretty sure you have seen the pics

Unless you mean the pics of the wiring etc?

Buford T Justice

Saruman wrote: »

I am pretty sure you have seen the pics

Unless you mean the pics of the wiring etc?

Aah yes, the aul 'I have an audi in my ass' trick. I remember it now.

How did you get on with the DVD players?
Easier said than done, but the wiring shouldn't be overly complicated.

Just an assumption, but if the people that built it had any sort of cop, there would be a main area for all the wiring routes back to. Kinda like what there is in my conversion. If so, it could make fault finding much easier with the likes of a toner.....


Question... The four seats in the back of the van with belts.. do they form a bed too, or do you just kip across them?

Saruman

I will report back on the DVD player testing today.

I don't think they had enough cop on for a central place for the wiring like yours. With the exception of the consumer unit for the mains of course. The 12V seems to be all over the place. I think there is a lot of splicing going on. Some I can see, the rest I can't because it's behind panels that I have no interest in taking out.

The 4 seats down the back do convert in to a bed yes. It is not quite a double though so while you can get 2 people in it, it's a tight squeeze.

The front seats by the driver turn in to a single bed as well.

The other bed areas are just not designed with adults in mind, they were custom built for their kids but we have no need for them as we have no kids.

Buford T Justice

I know what you mean. One of the beds I'm putting in will be child size only, but then I do have two little ones coming along with us.

Out of curiosity, how do the back seats make a bed? They look like bus seats, which would seem uncomfortable lying across them if you get me.

Saruman

Quite simple. There is a board that sits in storage/bed area above. That board is on hinges so you take it down, open it up and lay it over the seats.... Another board gets shoved in between the middle seats to the floor to support as well as supports on the van walls.

Then a mattress/spongy yoke gets put down.

I will take a picture for you later.

Saruman

OK so I tested the AC adapter. I put my multimeter probe in the DC port, Attached a little wire to positive as the probe did not fit in the hole. Then touched black off the outside. I turned it on and got a reading that jumped between 12 and 13 so I am going to assume that is a good sign.
I guess that just means that the DVD player itself is borked.

Oh and here is a pic of the back bed (without the mattress)


It's not too bad, there is a slight dip towards the back where the seats slope down a little but it is comfortable enough.

Buford T Justice

Don't rule out that there is the possibility that you have a bad negative connection somewhere. What you've done is bypass the neg in the circuit and used the chassis instead. Try it by using both terminals on the traffo.

Were you measuring the power into the transformer or out of it?
What is the power rating of the DVD players themselves? It should be printed on the units themselves.

Saruman

I will have to take the DVD player off the wall and check.

I was going to try and power on the monitor unit directly, it usually gets its power from the main unit via another cable.

Buford T Justice

So one is linked to the other then?
Fwiw I'd find out the input voltage of the unit an d maybe get a variable transnformer to check it with. It's more likely to be the power supply IMO

Saruman

Hmmm all I can say now is arse.

Last week I hooked up my reversing camera which works perfectly.

Today I was going to jump in the camper and drive my wife to the bus stop to give it a bit of a run. I had driven it a few weeks to Athlone and back after jumpstarting her. The battery had drained over the harsh winter. Anyway today it would not start (nothing at all, not even lights on the dash) so I took her in the car instead.

Got back and tried again, this time it tried to tick over but failed in the end. After 2 attempts it was back to being dead again.

Now I don't think what I did with the reversing camera should have made a difference since I am sure it runs off the leisure system. It still works fine along with the lights but I never tried starting the van after I installed it either.

Now I suppose it is always possible that the winter killed my battery in some way but it has only been 2 weeks since I drove it to Athlone. It started up fine when I stopped in Athlone for a few hours and drove home then.

I dread having to take the battery out and giving it a full charge. It is such a pain in the arse to get it out.

Buford T Justice

If you are mates with anyone in a garage then ask if you can borrow a battery tester. It'll make it easier to chech if it's the battery at fault. How sure are you that the camera was connected to the leisure side of things? Did you leave you're charging switch on by any chance?

Saruman

No the charging switch was set to off.

The only way I know that the camera is on the leisure system is because I have had the lights dim and pump struggle when the van battery is fine and starts without issue.
The camera and monitor are physically connected in to one of the light switches (normal household switch) which run off the leisure system. The camera has it's own switch to cut off all power. It all works as I expected.

One thought is that for some reason the immobiliser (if there is one) is cutting in but I am probably way off.

Saruman

Aha.... Success.

I had the thought that surely I did nothing wrong... it did not make sense so I took a look at the battery itself.

The bloody positive clamp was not tightened all the way so it was a little loose.
Tightened it and the van started perfectly

I must not have tightened it correctly when I put the battery back in the last time.

Buford T Justice

Thats a relief

I know the feeling. The dread of finishing a job and something then not working that was working before hand. Just the thoughts of having to go back through things again................///shudders

Aidan_M_M

Saruman wrote: »

Aha.... Success.

I had the thought that surely I did nothing wrong... it did not make sense so I took a look at the battery itself.

The bloody positive clamp was not tightened all the way so it was a little loose.
Tightened it and the van started perfectly

I must not have tightened it correctly when I put the battery back in the last time.

remind me , is this a Ducato , and what year? The inner , positve connection on the '03 on models is a disaster.

Saruman

No it's an LDV convoy.

Aidan_M_M

is that laid out like a Tranny still?

Saruman

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

is that laid out like a Tranny still?

I'm hoping you mean Transit

Aidan_M_M

Yes , sorry for the Confusion.

paddyp

Saruman wrote: »

I'm hoping you mean Transit

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Yes , sorry for the Confusion.

Damn I thought you were referring to Dr. Frankenfurter.

Aidan_M_M

paddyp wrote: »

Damn I thought you were referring to Dr. Frankenfurter.

haha:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Saruman

Is there an advantage over a deep cycle leisure battery compared to a standard car or van battery? I ask because I suspect mine is a car battery but I need to confirm when I take a proper look.

Buford T Justice

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be charged and discharged many times, as you would do when using it in a camper or caravan. Regular car batteries are not designed to be drained completely.

Car battery will work, but it won't last as long as a deep cycle leisure one. The one I got was a 70AH Leisure battery from Halfords for i think it was €130.

Halfords weren't my preference but the motor factors would have had me waiting about another two weeks before he got one in for me, and was only about €15 cheaper.

Aidan_M_M

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Car battery will work, but it won't last as long as a deep cycle leisure one.

Tis rare that I don't fully agree with you FMG , but in my personal experience , the high rate of charge that modern alternators give out seems to over charge Deep Cycle batteries , especially Gel ones . Not so much acid pnes though tbh . they all seem to last fine getting a charge from mains tho .

Buford T Justice

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Tis rare that I don't fully agree with you FMG , but in my personal experience , the high rate of charge that modern alternators give out seems to over charge Deep Cycle batteries , especially Gel ones . Not so much acid pnes though tbh . they all seem to last fine getting a charge from mains tho .

Fair point, and no argument from me. I'm here to pick up bits here and there, as well as help out when I can.