David McWilliams -Keep an eye on your savings

femur61

Sorry about the long link I'm not sure how to shorten it into a name.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/03/09/keep-an-eye-on-your-savings-you-can-be-sure-the-state-is?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Davidmcwilliams+%28DavidMcWilliams.ie%29http://search.imesh.com

Did anyone read this, seems to think the state may rape our private pensions and if they do this will our savings in the bank be safe. I am very serious about opening a bank account in N. Ireland.

rumour

femur61 wrote: »

Sorry about the long link I'm not sure how to shorten it into a name.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/03/09/keep-an-eye-on-your-savings-you-can-be-sure-the-state-is?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Davidmcwilliams+%28DavidMcWilliams.ie%29http://search.imesh.com

Did anyone read this, seems to think the state may rape our private pensions and if they do this will our savings in the bank be safe. I am very serious about opening a bank account in N. Ireland.

Take a pragmatic look around and judge for yourself. Of the new government we know little of what they will do and know what they won't do.
They won't dismantle the croke park agreement.It is intact with labour and the unions having a firm grip on power.

The only source of money/cash for the government is the EU where we have very little sway. We agreed something with them in November by March we want more. How long do you think this will go on for?

The elction despite the media hype has delivered an old guard of guys who have waited so long for power it is their primary concern and they will deliver stale policies.

We know we are about to run about of money, the government need it from somewhere, who do you think Labour will take it from? For it is Labour now who drive economic policy.

In desperation they will come up with moves to take money in any way possible. After they screw up the pensions as Mc Williams says they will start looking elsewhere. This state did introduce a tax in the past based on the size of the roof on your house. We are all being warmed up for a property tax....but when it comes to taking money off people with the institutions of the state at your disposal all it takes is imagination.

If you have any wealth in this countr do what most serious investors have done....pull out.

COYW

rumour wrote: »

If you have any wealth in this countr do what most serious investors have done....pull out.

I have moved all my savings to the Ulster bank for the moment and I am seriously considering moving the whole lot to a bank that does not trade in the Irish market, leaving a few grand in a current account here for general living. I dont have hundreds of thousands of euro saved but I do have a tidy sum, which I have worked hard for and there is no way on earth that I am giving it to the likes of Anglo or even worse some lifer tramp on the dole.

I work in the financial sector and the possibility of a new savings (deposit) tax has been mentioned to me by 3 or 4 people very much in the know. It is a very viable option for Labour. There are not going to face any opposition from the hard left (SF/ULA), as they will view it as a tax on the rich.

liammur

femur61 wrote: »

Sorry about the long link I'm not sure how to shorten it into a name.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/03/09/keep-an-eye-on-your-savings-you-can-be-sure-the-state-is?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Davidmcwilliams+%28DavidMcWilliams.ie%29http://search.imesh.com

Did anyone read this, seems to think the state may rape our private pensions and if they do this will our savings in the bank be safe. I am very serious about opening a bank account in N. Ireland.

Pity McWilliams advised the last government on the bank guarantee :mad:

ei.sdraob

I am off Switzerland in few weeks, had enough of the so called "banks" here.

Thankfully I refrained from starting a pension pot few years ago and ploughed money into business, since it would have been decimated like the rest of them.

dan_d

I have a little issue....in my last job I was paying into a pension. However as I am unemployed, that pension is now just sitting there. There's not a huge amount in it, but it's a tidy sum, and it's my money. I can't keep paying into it as it's through a company scheme, and as I'm now not working, they won't do it for me. So I don't know what to do, and I'm getting a bit concerned at this stage.......

alan85

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I am off Switzerland in few weeks, had enough of the so called "banks" here.

Thankfully I refrained from starting a pension pot few years ago and ploughed money into business, since it would have been decimated like the rest of them.

It's something I'm looking into myself. I want to have an option to move out in case. There's zero certainty at the moment here. What have you to do to set up in Switzerland? Would you mind explaining it to me? Is there a fee on the account?

gigino

You would not know where to keep your money now. A few colleagues are retiring soon and they are wondering what to do with their 18 month salary lump sum gratuity from the government. Do they put the couple of hundred grand in to a savings account, or put it abroad or what ? Divy it up to children / grandchildren ?

To keep the money in the country, I would not be surprised if the government came up with a scheme to tie the money here. The retiring public servant has an average lump sum from the government ( as well as their pension of 50% of finishing salary ) which would almost buy a couple of brand new 2-bedroom apartments in a nice large town on the Shannon, which are tax incentive and built to all government standards and regulations.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830

They are on offer for less than 55k each. Put in an offer of 50 or 52 k and you may get one. Supposing each retiring public servant was forced to buy a couple of Irish apartments like this with their lump sum, it would keep the money circulating in Ireland. If they used one as a holiday home, it would generate business in restaurants , the local economy etc. Its surely better than ghost estates laying unused and empty, and getting vandalised.

ei.sdraob

@alan85 pm me in 3 weeks once im done with my meeting to setup an account for new business, ill have more details then, top of my head you need to keep a 5000 min deposit, bills + passport, and quarterly fees of ~100 CHF (80euro or so)
for personal accounts it might be cheaper to go with hsbc or lloyds if you are leaving the country or travel alot

alan85

Does anybody know is it as good to have savings with these banks here as it is to have an offshore account? What are the implications of banking with these banks?

I don't think a tax will be put on savings. It's hard enough to maintain deposits here without having them taxed. That's unlikely. My main concern is default and our banks not being supported from Europe.

HellFireClub

rumour wrote: »

Take a pragmatic look around and judge for yourself. Of the new government we know little of what they will do and know what they won't do.
They won't dismantle the croke park agreement.It is intact with labour and the unions having a firm grip on power.

The only source of money/cash for the government is the EU where we have very little sway. We agreed something with them in November by March we want more. How long do you think this will go on for?

The elction despite the media hype has delivered an old guard of guys who have waited so long for power it is their primary concern and they will deliver stale policies.

We know we are about to run about of money, the government need it from somewhere, who do you think Labour will take it from? For it is Labour now who drive economic policy.

In desperation they will come up with moves to take money in any way possible. After they screw up the pensions as Mc Williams says they will start looking elsewhere. This state did introduce a tax in the past based on the size of the roof on your house. We are all being warmed up for a property tax....but when it comes to taking money off people with the institutions of the state at your disposal all it takes is imagination.

If you have any wealth in this countr do what most serious investors have done....pull out.

Couldn't agree more with you... Another thing the government are doing is they are eyeing up the deposit base in the Credit Unions. I was talking to a woman who is on the board of my local Credit Union and she said they are under no illusions whatsoever that the government are actively eyeing up the deposit base in their organisation for what could be described, "more efficient usage", read into that whatever you will.

I think anyone who still has substantial savings in any Irish institution at this juncture needs their head examined...

P. Breathnach

gigino wrote: »

... Supposing each retiring public servant was forced to buy a couple of Irish apartments like this with their lump sum, it would keep the money circulating in Ireland....

In line with the header of this thread, I'm keeping an eye on my savings. You keep your beady eye off them.

Red Hand

gigino wrote: »

To keep the money in the country, I would not be surprised if the government came up with a scheme to tie the money here. The retiring public servant has an average lump sum from the government ( as well as their pension of 50% of finishing salary ) which would almost buy a couple of brand new 2-bedroom apartments in a nice large town on the Shannon, which are tax incentive and built to all government standards and regulations.

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=310830

They are on offer for less than 55k each. Put in an offer of 50 or 52 k and you may get one. Supposing each retiring public servant was forced to buy a couple of Irish apartments like this with their lump sum, it would keep the money circulating in Ireland. If they used one as a holiday home, it would generate business in restaurants , the local economy etc. Its surely better than ghost estates laying unused and empty, and getting vandalised.

Keep your fantasies to yourself!:pac:

It's hard to know what to believe and who to trust. McWilliams has said many things and only some have come true.

ninjasurfer1

HellFireClub wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you... Another thing the government are doing is they are eyeing up the deposit base in the Credit Unions. I was talking to a woman who is on the board of my local Credit Union and she said they are under no illusions whatsoever that the government are actively eyeing up the deposit base in their organisation for what could be described, "more efficient usage", read into that whatever you will...

What do you think this means? Is it that the govt will take the money out of the credit unions without the investors permission? Would this be legal?

ei.sdraob

The pensions reserve is all but gone (sorry invested in bankrupt banks) :P

AlekSmart

The pensions reserve is all but gone (sorry invested in bankrupt banks)

It really all returns to that fateful night in Oct 2008.

Mr Lenihan (remember him ?) made some remarkably far reaching all-encompassing decsions on-the-fly with a selection of besuited heavies sitting around outside.

Remember as of yet,we do not know EXACTLY who was in or around the room on the night.

Why was/is Mr Lenihan and those other parties so concerned with maintaining the absolute secrecy which continues to surround the decision making process ?

The decomposing corpse of Anglo-Irish Bank and it`s principals remain the single largest obstacle to any Irish Citizen having the ability to make informed decisions about their savings/future.

AlekSmart

COYW wrote: »

there is no way on earth that I am giving it to the likes of Anglo or even worse some lifer tramp on the dole.

Ain`t that the truth,but sadly this particular wagon-train continues to roll ever onwards :mad:

ei.sdraob

yep like @liammur said we know whose idea it was and who supported it

* WHAT WE MUST DO TO GET THE MONKEY OFF OUR BACKS
* STATE MUST ACT AS A SAFEGUARD
* STATE GUARANTEES CAN AVERT DEPRESSION :eek:
* LENIHAN’S MASTERSTROKE HAS BOUGHT US TIME TO SORT OUT OUR OWN PROBLEMS

sorry for caps thats how he keeps his titles on his blog....

look at it this way, McWilliams has helped guarantee himself a nice and steady income with his mouth, just thinking out loud....

bradlente

Would you lads include the credit union as a place to steer clear of depositing as well?

ressem

re: HellFireClub, The same thought is going around the credit unions here.

If the credit unions that did not mess up (a large majority I think) were allowed to loan normally and prudently then they would be ok.
But I'm told that the regulator has put such strict regulations on their lending that they've got a cash pile building up that they are not allowed to relend except on extremely limited terms.

30,000 max over a max 3 year term I what I've been told. The short allowed duration is the deal-breaker. It rules out all sorts of small business loans such as a new car or van.

And as a result under the regulations the credit unions have to put the money that they can't lend out to it's members (and owners) into an Irish bank deposit. They shouldn't be putting money in anything less than a triple A rated institution but the regulator insists that the government guarantee means it's allowed. I don't think that the current rules allow them to invest elsewhere,

So you have credit unions with about 5 billion in cash that they want permission to lend out to people and small business, but have been forbidden from doing so by the government appointees.

Ulster Bank probably the safest in Ireland?

bradlente

I have an account in Ulster and a bit in the Credit Union.Think I might move it over to Ulster to be safe.

Byron85

bradlente wrote: »

I have an account in Ulster and a bit in the Credit Union.Think I might move it over to Ulster to be safe.

I've got just over €2,000 savings in the credit union but can't touch it due to a loan i'm paying back. Grrr.

alan85

I've got just over €2,000 savings in the credit union but can't touch it due to a loan i'm paying back. Grrr.

Would it not be better to plough that 2K into the loan? Not sure how interest rates affect credit unions but with potential rises this year it's what I'd be doing.

Quiet you

I may be miles off topic here and sorry if I am but I have been saving through prize bonds since I started working ten years ago.

I decided on prize bonds as I had no knowlege of investments and wasn't willing to risk my money on something I didn't fully understand.

Basically, what I'm asking is, is are my savings safe or are they going to spend all that money too?

ressem

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

What do you think this means? Is it that the govt will take the money out of the credit unions without the investors permission? Would this be legal?

Under "The Credit Institutions Stabilisation Bill" that they rushed through in December 2010 they have the power to transfer deposits between institutions at a whim.
So the guess is that they're looking at forcing the merging of credit unions into a much smaller number to make it easier to regulate. Then they'll appoint their own 'professionals' to manage the funds, getting rid of the volunteer directors.

Quiet you wrote:

I may be miles off topic here and sorry if I am but I have been saving through prize bonds since I started working ten years ago.

I decided on prize bonds as I had no knowlege of investments and wasn't willing to risk my money on something I didn't fully understand.

Basically, what I'm asking is, is are my savings safe or are they going to spend all that money too?

Yeah it's safe (except from inflation, but you've been losing that for ten years), as are the other deposits.

Really the worst case (based on what happened in Argentina) is that taxes would have to be put up and govt spending cut to return you your money, and withdrawals might be delayed if it's a large amount.

alan85

I may be miles off topic here and sorry if I am but I have been saving through prize bonds since I started working ten years ago.

I decided on prize bonds as I had no knowlege of investments and wasn't willing to risk my money on something I didn't fully understand.

Basically, what I'm asking is, is are my savings safe or are they going to spend all that money too?

I was thinking about that today too as I have some as well. I would imagine bank deposits would come first if ever things came to a head. Problem is worst case scenario has never been tested so nobody knows what position you would be left in regards accounts, bonds etc...

I think you'll have to make up your own mind I'm afraid. Have you won anything out of interest? Might be worth sticking it in an account earning a bit of interest for the short term to insure you're covered...

southsiderosie

ressem wrote: »

Really the worst case (based on what happened in Argentina) is that taxes would have to be put up and govt spending cut to return you your money, and withdrawals might be delayed if it's a large amount.

The worst case scenario from Argentina is that the government both defaults and drops the euro, converts all deposits to punts at a given rate, freezes the accounts, and then floats the new currency which immediately plummets, thus destroying the savings of middle and working class people (the rich pulled out a long time ago).

So realistically, the only way that an Argentina-style total meltdown could happen is if Ireland pulls a late-night withdrawal from the euro. A partial meltdown could happen with a default, however.

I have to say, I think McWilliams' columns are becoming increasingly irresponsible. I don't know if he thinks that publishing speculation is a means of waking up the public or what, but I think he needs to offer some kind of context and concrete information, and leave the wild speculation to talk radio.

gigino

southsiderosie wrote: »

The worst case scenario from Argentina is that the government both defaults and drops the euro, converts all deposits to punts at a given rate, freezes the accounts, and then floats the new currency which immediately plummets, thus destroying the savings of middle and working class people (the rich pulled out a long time ago).

The scenario above is a scary thought, but one thing for sure, any of my colleagues retiring are not putting their lump sum pension gratuity in to an Irish financial institution. Suppose they went bust + the government could not borrow enough to reimburse the depositers ? Who would want to lose over 100,000 ? I would not be surprised if the government tries to stem this flow of capital though. Even if only 30,000 people retire from the public service in the next 3 years, as is widely expected, each with say an average net gratuity of 18 months finishing salary of 100,000, that adds up to € 30,000,000,000. If that money could be kept circulating in Ireland, it could be used to create a lot of jobs / help stem the flow of emigratrion....which could only be a good thing.

Any ideas for the best way to do this ? Insist some of the lump sum is invested in Irish property ....say some of the ghost estates being used as holiday homes, so further revenue is generates for local restaurants etc. Better than leaving properties get rundown / vandalised etc. Or insisting that some of the tax free pension lump sum is invested in a basket of state approved Irish manufacturing / renewable energy / tourism firms or whatever for a period of years e.g. four years. If some or all of the 30,000,000,000 was invested in Ireland, even if just for say the next 4 years of the finianial crises, it could create an awful lot of badly needed employment. The only way we can get out of the crises is by the country exporting more goods + services , and by developing our tourism and resources etc.

The country is bust, its time for radical ideas to help stem the flow of emigration.

bradlente

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ulster Bank probably the safest in Ireland?

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/IRELAND_bail_out-002.jpg

I robbed this off someone who put it up on the Shane Ross "lower CT" thread.
It's a bit off topic maybe but it just goes to show how mad the situation is,how all the banks are connected and such.

I presume the same as yourself with Ulster Bank.Even though it's well in arrears according to that little diagram,it seems safer to me as it's not included under the finance bill,so if things take an "unforseen" turn for the worst here the government can't take funds outta there.

Honestly looking at that diagram right now it looks like under the mattress is the best place for the bank notes!

jank

Are Ulster Bank and Rabo better bets because they are foreign owned?

Black Rock

PRIZE BONDS

Some useful background information on Prize Bonds.

Prize Bonds are part of the range of "State Savings" products offered by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) to personal savers. Full details on the StateSavings ie website in NTMA Brochure 1 on the home page - see following extracts -
• When you put money into State Savings™ you are placing your money directly with the Irish Government.
• All State Savings™ money is under the management of the NTMA.
• The repayment of all State Savings™ money is a direct, unconditional obligation of the Government of Ireland.
• Repayment of your money includes principal, interest and bonus payments if due, and in respect of Prize Bonds, cash prizes.
• State Savings™ form part of the National Debt of Ireland which is managed by the NTMA.
• There is no upper limit on the amount protected
• There is no expiry or end date for this protection
How much money is in State Savings™?
End Dec 2010
Prize Bonds ........................................€ 1.3 billion
Deposit Accounts & Instalment Savings ..€ 2.8 billion
Savings Bonds ....................................€ 4.2 billion
Savings Certs + National Solidarity Bond.€ 4.3 billion
.................................................Total €12.6 billion