How do structural engineers get clients?

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman

Seeing as they cant advertise according to the charter of the institute. How do they even hear about jobs to tender for or make submissions and presentations? Is it all just contacts and golden-circle golf-club old boys network connections? It seems like a 5hitty business model if they can't even advertise. How is their business supposed to grow? Through an improved golf game? Through their "likeability" down at the gentleman's club? How many people laugh at their jokes at the bar? Considering engineers are nerds and hobnobbing would be socially awkward and painful for them, their has to be a better way. Just watching "The Social Network" got me thinking, while one guy was getting hazed at the various frat houses and trying to build up contacts, the other was bypassing all that nonsense and going straight to the practical issues, in proper engineering style.

And why haven't the various institutes got their finger out and sorted out the fees? Relative to other professions they are low. Lawyers unite and people pay through the nose for them, why not the same for engineers?

paraicr

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman wrote: »

Seeing as they cant advertise according to the charter of the institute. How do they even hear about jobs to tender for or make submissions and presentations? Is it all just contacts and golden-circle golf-club old boys network connections? It seems like a 5hitty business model if they can't even advertise. How is their business supposed to grow? Through an improved golf game? Through their "likeability" down at the gentleman's club? How many people laugh at their jokes at the bar? Considering engineers are nerds and hobnobbing would be socially awkward and painful for them, their has to be a better way. Just watching "The Social Network" got me thinking, while one guy was getting hazed at the various frat houses and trying to build up contacts, the other was bypassing all that nonsense and going straight to the practical issues, in proper engineering style.

And why haven't the various institutes got their finger out and sorted out the fees? Relative to other professions they are low. Lawyers unite and people pay through the nose for them, why not the same for engineers?

I think you're being a bit naive on the subject here. Like any business engineering consultancies will always do their best to keep valued clients happy, if this means the odd game of golf then so be it.

Generally most firms would have repeat cients who would use them when required. Obviously big projects are awarded based on tendering, which at the moment is crazy competitive.

The fee issue is a thorny one. even in the good times engineers were comparitively badly paid. This is a fault of the profession, but since it didn't really improve during the good times it definitely wont now. As i've said competition is fierce with many firms tendering at cost or below just to maintain a workload and keep themselves going from month to month.
This obviously has a knock on effect on salaries of workers.

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman

You're missing the point. Accusing me of being "naive" assumes I know by osmosis how the system works. Nobody tells you how it works, you're just supposed to read the minds of those "in the know" who maintain their aura of mystery to retain power.

So tell me, how do they get NEW clients? How do they hear about the tenders? What kind of a business model forbids advertising? How are these businesses supposed to grow?

paraicr

didn't mean offence, but my accusations of naivety were focussed on your assertion that there was something underhand about keeping clients happy with a game of golf and the gentlemnas club comment. Engineering is no different from most professions on this matter.

generally for private work clients tend to stick with who they know (unless they have a reason not to, I suppose the seeds of these relationships come from word of mouth or referrals). for public work tenders are generally openm and are awarded based on a nymber of factors (experience, price, resources, etc.).

There is advertising/marketing of sorts in the various journals, and of course firms will put signs up on information boards on their sites, etc. To be honest the very small or independant engineers would tend to advertise locally for any minor jobs, but Its extremely difficult to start up on your own without having previous experience and bringing clients with you/ good word of mouth following you.

I dont really know beyond that how advertising would be of much benefit, I cant imagine a developer of any significant scheme hiring an engineer on the back of radio or newsapaper advertising.

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman

No offense taken pal.

So I guess it really is the old boys network. That would mean that as businesses they will never really be that big as their scope for growth is severely limited. Seems like there are potentially much better areas to go into.

Just out of interest, does anyone have any links to some consultancies turnover/profits in Ireland/UK? Or does anyone have any rough figures for the running of a counsultancy?

Lu Tze

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman wrote: »

No offense taken pal.

So I guess it really is the old boys network. That would mean that as businesses they will never really be that big as their scope for growth is severely limited. Seems like there are potentially much better areas to go into.

Just out of interest, does anyone have any links to some consultancies turnover/profits in Ireland/UK? Or does anyone have any rough figures for the running of a counsultancy?

I think the aim of most consultancies is 8-10% profit on turnover. I doubt many if any are making that now - except in the odd niche.

Robertd_07

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman wrote: »

Seeing as they cant advertise according to the charter of the institute.

The charter of engineers ireland?
Not the case from what I've just read.

John368

Engineers in Ireland and UK have been allowed to advertise for some years now.

As far as I can see, most Institutions have rules basically saying that advertising must be done in a professional and factual manner. In other words you cannot say the engineering equivalent of "Daz washes whiter".

As an engineer myself, I find that advertising brings in very few new clients. Many, if not most, firms of engineers do not have websites and the ones who do put very little information on them. This, I believe is nothing to do with the advertising rules, but just for straight-forward business reasons of not attracting spam, unwanted mail, sales representative and clients who have no intention of employing them, but want free advice. Also, most firms do not want to advertise what they are doing to competitors.

Warchild aka Lupton_Pittman

John368 wrote: »

Many, if not most, firms of engineers do not have websites and the ones who do put very little information on them. This, I believe is nothing to do with the advertising rules, but just for straight-forward business reasons of not attracting spam, unwanted mail, sales representative and clients who have no intention of employing them, but want free advice. Also, most firms do not want to advertise what they are doing to competitors.

Think you're mistaken here John, most firms have websites. Some don't put up email addresses for the reasons you've given, usually one-man bands or very small operations. Past projects are proudly displayed on many of them, but not current projects.