Gregorian Chant with the Ordinary Form

The Brigadier

I will state my position from the start on this. I don't like the majority of most post Vatican II music. I have a personal dislike for guitars, bongos and tamborines. I don't think that makes my devotion any more or less valid.

We sing the chant at mass now in accordance with the liturgical calendar. Anyone else doing the same?

Ash.J.Williams

Jimmy Hendrix would fix that for you.

The Brigadier

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Jimmy Hendrix would fix that for you.

I am a big Hendrix fan - just not as part of the Mass.

Donatello

I love chant but I only saw it used once with the Ordinary Form, and that was at a retreat given by a visiting priest.

Chant is not difficult, but you need one person who knows what they are doing and can lead the others.

The New Mass, in Latin, ad orientem, is beautiful. But that is as rare as hen's teeth.

I suppose we sadly have to accept the fact that some Catholics do not want reverent and sacred liturgy. They like the back-slapping, casual, and banal Masses we have in Ireland. I think the silent majority are those who would appreciate sound and sacred liturgy but have never experienced it so don't realise what they are missing. They just make do.

noel farrell

as a non dom christian and not into chant i hope you dont mind me commenting . there are 24,000 verses in the bible on praise and worship with strings drums dance.. loud i might add. open your bible read psalm 150 . there are 446 verses with chant . god bless

Slav

What is right and good for a non-denominational church does not necessarily fit well the Catholics Mass.

I guess all Catholics would be perfectly fine with strings and drums if they were gathering only for praise and worship. This topic however is about liturgical music. If you look carefully at the Gregorian chant you'll find it's clearly rooted in Temple music: think of such features as antiphon, monophonic, eight Gregorian modes, etc. The chant is a very close relative of the liturgical music that could be heard in the Temple during the sacrifices while the modern pop/rock/folk/blues/gospel/jazz is completely foreign to it.

homer911

Anthing that excludes people or deters people from worship should be looked at critically - that should include both Gregorian chant and drums and guitars - it all depends on what you want your church to be? enticing to those who are in need of a relationship with God, or self serving to existing members? When the mode of worship becomes the object of adoration (from whatever preference or perspective) then I would have to ask if its honouring to God...

mdebets

Slav wrote: »

I guess all Catholics would be perfectly fine with strings and drums if they were gathering only for praise and worship. This topic however is about liturgical music. If you look carefully at the Gregorian chant you'll find it's clearly rooted in Temple music: think of such features as antiphon, monophonic, eight Gregorian modes, etc. The chant is a very close relative of the liturgical music that could be heard in the Temple during the sacrifices while the modern pop/rock/folk/blues/gospel/jazz is completely foreign to it.

I presume you have links to research, to back-up your statement.

This whole discussion reminds me of a discussion we had in our parrish (Lutheran) about music during the service. One member said she doesn't like the modern music, because it is so secular and not fitting for a whorship sevice. She was very quiet, when our organist told her, that the older songs she liked and mentioned earlier, where original were original dance songs.

I also find it very pretenous to think, that it makes an ounce of a difference to God, which music is used in church service or mass, as long as it is used to whorship him.

studiorat

mdebets wrote: »

I presume you have links to research, to back-up your statement.

It's pretty much a given, not something you'd usually cite. However, according to Grove Encyclopedia of Music (one in every library!), Plainsong comes from traditions in Jewish and Pagan ritual. The Gregorian names comes from the 3rd Century (Pope Gregory) I assume it was under him that it was codified using Eastern modalities. The use of Plainsong musical patterns does have proven psychological effects that one would assume to go in tandem with calmness and reflection etc. Reciting tones, of which Plainsong is one, are also used in reading of the Qu'ran as do Jews with the Torah. It seems through experiments with babies etc. that we are "pre-wired" to be pleased by the intervals in Gregorian Chant.

Regarding "drums in church" (a reference I wish I had made up), sociologist Peter Berger argues that both the Protestant and Catholic denominations have suffered due what he refers to as "abuse of the vernacular". Meaning popular music's introduction to church services is an effort to make everything intelligible and understandable. He argues that the use of the unknown or incompletely known heightens and deepens the power of the ritual.

I comment because I have a deep interest in the neurology and psychology of hearing and music. I would suggest certain sounds produce a stimulis that is instinctively mysterious to us which induce fear, awe etc and religious ritual has tapped into these sounds. Plainsong being a version of this, whereas pop music is a conditioned sound which we learn and therefore does not have the gravity of the former.

/* gets coat...

hisname

Hi All,

For all those who love the Gregorian Chat and Sacred Polyphone, and want to worship with dignified and holy Sacred Music that communicates and transmits the person of Christ, I would suggest the Guild of Choristers of St Cecilia who sing at the 9.30 mass at St Mary's Haddington Road.

This is a very special Dublin Choir with over 100 years of history singing sacred music.

They sing every Sunday at 9.30am at St Mary's Haddington Road. If you're interested either come and see us after mass or email the director:
GuildofChoristers@gmail.com

This Dublin Choir is also on facebook and Twitter so do follow us and share!