Lent / Ash Wednesday

Newaglish

Two quick questions (I can't remember the specific rules)

1) I know most Christian religions forbid eating meat on Ash Wednesday - is it also the same rule for every Friday during Lent?

2) I know you can eat fish but not beef/chicken/pork etc. - is there a specific reason for this? Or is it because fish is not considered to be meat?

georgieporgy

1. You are right. We abstain from meat on Ash Wed and on all the Fridays of Lent. In addition to this, Ash Wed and Good Friday are also Fast days.

2. Fish is ok as it's not meat. But I don't think gourmet lobster dishes for example are considered penitential. I think the idea is to keep it plain and simple.

Newaglish

georgieporgy wrote: »

1. You are right. We abstain from meat on Ash Wed and on all the Fridays of Lent. In addition to this, Ash Wed and Good Friday are also Fast days.

2. Fish is ok as it's not meat. But I don't think gourmet lobster dishes for example are considered penitential. I think the idea is to keep it plain and simple.

Thanks - and am I right in saying it's two small meals and then one larger meal that isn't greater than the sum total of the two earlier ones? Or is the same size? I vaguely remember reading that somewhere...

johnfás

The abstaining from meat is a largely Catholic phenomenon - it does not arise within the Protestant denominations.

The Brigadier

Newaglish wrote: »

Two quick questions (I can't remember the specific rules)

1) I know most Christian religions forbid eating meat on Ash Wednesday - is it also the same rule for every Friday during Lent?

2) I know you can eat fish but not beef/chicken/pork etc. - is there a specific reason for this? Or is it because fish is not considered to be meat?

We don't eat meat on any Fridays. It is a practice still upheld by many Catholics as well as Anglicans and members of the Eastern Church.

Fanny Cradock

Newaglish wrote: »

Christian religions...

A small point of order. The Christian religion (singular) is comprised of various denominations (plural).

Newaglish

The Brigadier wrote: »

We don't eat meat on any Fridays. It is a practice still upheld by many Catholics as well as Anglicans and members of the Eastern Church.

I thought the Pope changed that as some stage though?

The Brigadier

Newaglish wrote: »

I thought the Pope changed that as some stage though?

It stopped being compulsory after Vatican II. It was never abrogated.

georgieporgy

The Brigadier wrote: »

It stopped being compulsory after Vatican II. It was never abrogated.

Friday remains a day of penance however. Instead of abstaining from meat we are left free to substitute something else. ( in practice most people do nothing).

Abstaining from meat is a territorial thing as far as I know. I think they still abstain from meat on fridays in Italy and USA. But I could be wrong there.

georgieporgy

Newaglish wrote: »

Thanks - and am I right in saying it's two small meals and then one larger meal that isn't greater than the sum total of the two earlier ones? Or is the same size? I vaguely remember reading that somewhere...

Your memory is not bad. Nothing like learning the catechism as a kid!

The 2 small meals when added together should not be greater than the main meal. And the main meal should be "ordinary". This is not a day when you go to the local "all you can eat restuarant".

No snacks or drinks in between meals. Water and medicine is ok. Exceptions made for pregnant mums, sick people etc.

Morbert

georgieporgy wrote: »

2. Fish is ok as it's not meat.

What about capybara?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

georgieporgy

Morbert wrote: »

What about capybara?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Look at what our friends in wikipedia have to say:


The meat is said to look like pork.[6] During Lent, capybara meat is especially popular in parts of South America, especially in Venezuela, as it is claimed that the Catholic Church, in a special dispensation, allowed capybara meat to be consumed on days that consumption of meat was otherwise not allowed. There are differing accounts of how the dispensation arose.[6][15][29] Capybaras are occasionally kept as pets in the United States[30] and in Canada.

prinz

georgieporgy wrote: »

Abstaining from meat is a territorial thing as far as I know. I think they still abstain from meat on fridays in Italy and USA. But I could be wrong there.

The university my wife attended in Germany, was a state uni not religiously affiliated with any religion but in the student and staff canteens served only fish every Friday, as it was tradition in the region. Imagine the outcry if that was brought in somewhere here.

PDN

Newaglish wrote: »

I know most Christian religions forbid eating meat on Ash Wednesday

No, most don't.

I had a good beef stir-fry for dinner tonight.

zoomtard

Hear hear PDN!

I went for a chicken sandwich. But I had a delicious beef chilli for dinner. God is not aggrieved.

liamw

PDN wrote: »

No, most don't.

I had a good beef stir-fry for dinner tonight.

You had better hope you picked the right denomination.

Onesimus

In the United States pregnant women, nursing women, people over 60 and children under 14 are not obligated to fast, nor to abstain from meat. Here's what the current Code of Canon Law says:

Can. 1250 The penitential days and times in the universal Church are every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference [for Americans, this refers to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops], is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence [not eating meat] and fasting [not eating food - see clarification below] are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year [translation: no meat for those fourteen and up]. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority [18], until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.

According to the United States bishops, "fasting" on Ash Wednesday for a Catholic Christian entails two collations (small, light snacks) and one full meal on Ash Wednesday - all without meat.

SOURCE: "Penitential Practices for Today's Catholics". United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://cantuar.blogspot.com/2011/03/ash-wednesday-official-catholic-rules.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+taylormarshall+%28Canterbury+Tales+by+Taylor+Marshall%29

I find it funny though how they always say ''united states'' and yet such a teaching is universal. America is the world when it comes even to Catholicism? :rolleyes:

Anyways enjoy.

Keylem

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

A small point of order. The Christian religion (singular) is comprised of various denominations (plural).

The Catholic Church isn't a denomination, all other christian religions outside of it is!

http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1296-jindal

PDN

liamw wrote: »

You had better hope you picked the right denomination.

Nope, it doesn't matter one jot if I picked the wrong denomination. Salvation is not in a denomination.

Slav

PDN wrote: »

No, most don't.

I wonder are Roman Catholics are the only ones who abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday in an organised way? Is it that common among Anglicans and Lutherans? Are there any other denominations where Ash Wednesday fasting is recommended or mandatory?

The Brigadier

Slav wrote: »

I wonder are Roman Catholics are the only ones who abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday in an organised way? Is it that common among Anglicans and Lutherans? Are there any other denominations where Ash Wednesday fasting is recommended or mandatory?

Plenty of Anglicans abstain as well.

Seaneh

normally I wouldn't treat any day in lent any different than any other day of the year.

But this year two friends (one Catholic, one pentecosta; same denomination as myself) asked me to join them doing a Daniel Fast.
So for lent I am only eating fruit, veggies, seeds, nuts, whole grains and water.

No meat, flour, yeast, etc.

Should be an interesting 40 days...

liamw

PDN wrote: »

Nope, it doesn't matter one jot if I picked the wrong denomination.

You're getting closer to reality PDN but not quite there yet

PDN

liamw wrote: »

You're getting closer to reality PDN but not quite there yet

And you're getting closer to trolling, but not quite there yet.

georgieporgy

Some words from the pope on the meaning of Lent. I wonder if all of us (Christians) agree with these sentiments.It would be nice to have more things in common.
Pope: Lent Is Intense Time of Meaning, Not Sadness

Underlines Reflection on God's Merciful Love

VATICAN CITY, MARCH 10, 2011 (Zenit.org).- Although Lent is commonly thought of in terms of darkness and sadness, it is rather, an intensely meaningful time for the Church, says Benedict XVI.The Pope stated this in a homily for Ash Wednesday, during a Mass he presided over in the Roman Basilica of St. Sabina.
"In common opinion, this time runs the risk of being marked by sadness, by the darkness of life," the Pontiff stated. "Instead, it is a precious gift of God; it is an intense time full of meaning in the journey of the Church; it is the itinerary to the Lord's Easter."
He noted that Lent is "about putting into practice an attitude of genuine conversion to God -- of return to him -- recognizing his holiness, his power, his majesty."
"And this conversion is possible because God is rich in mercy and great in love," the Holy Father said.
"His is a regenerating mercy, which creates a pure heart in us, renews our interior in a firm spirit, restoring to us the joy of salvation," he added.
Benedict XVI affirmed, "God, in fact, does not will the death of the sinner, but that he be converted and live."
Lent is "a journey of forty days where we can experience in an effective way the merciful love of God," the Pope said.
Conversion
He noted that we are "called to convert our hearts to God, conscious that we cannot carry out our conversion by ourselves, with our own efforts, because it is God who converts us."
"He offers us once again his forgiveness," the Pontiff stated, "inviting us to return to him to give us a new heart, purified from the evil that oppresses it, to have us take part in his joy."
He urged, "Our world needs to be converted to God; it needs his forgiveness, his love; it needs a new heart."
The Holy Father observed, "We can all open ourselves to God's action, to his love, with our evangelical witness.
He continued: "We Christians must be a living message; in fact, in many cases we are the only Gospel that the men of today still read.
"This is our responsibility, following the steps of St. Paul; here is another reason to live Lent well: to give witness of a lived faith to a world in difficulty that needs to return to God, which is in need of conversion."
Benedict XVI urged, "Let us begin this Lenten itinerary confident and joyful."
"Forty days separate us from Easter," he said. "This 'intense' time of the liturgical year is a propitious time to attend, with greater commitment, to our conversion, to intensify listening to the Word of God, prayer and penance, opening our hearts to the docile acceptance of the divine will, for a more generous practice of mortification, thanks to which we will go more readily to help our needy neighbor: a spiritual itinerary that prepares us to receive the Paschal Mystery."
--- --- ---

On ZENIT's Web page:

Full text: www.zenit.org/article-31980?l=english

The Brigadier

The Bishops Conference of England and Wales give their guidance on the Friday Penance and options available.

a) by abstaining from meat or some other food
b) by abstaining from alcoholic drink, smoking or some form of amusement
c) by making the special effort involved in family prayer, taking part in the Mass, visiting the Blessed Sacrament or praying the Stations of the Cross
d) by fasting from all food for a longer period than usual and perhaps giving
what is saved in this way to the needy at home and abroad
e) by making a special effort to help somebody who is poor, sick, old or lonely, or committing time and effort
to working for justice.

http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Penance/Fasting.pdf

I personally think this modern take on things is confusing.

dvae

i just thought id add this, a couple of scriptures i found in 1 Timothy 4 1:5

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

georgieporgy

dvae wrote: »

i just thought id add this, a couple of scriptures i found in 1 Timothy 4 1:5

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Those quotes would be usefull when supporting an argument against vegetarianism or avoidance of pork products.
Can you find any scripture passages that support the idea of fasting and personal mortification?

PDN

georgieporgy wrote: »

Those quotes would be usefull when supporting an argument against vegetarianism or avoidance of pork products.
Can you find any scripture passages that support the idea of fasting and personal mortification?

That support fasting, or that support the ordering of others to fast?

georgieporgy

PDN wrote: »

That support fasting, or that support the ordering of others to fast?

that support fasting