Dealers pretending to be private

quad_red · 09-03-2011 2:59pm #1

:mad:

It seems like every decent condition low mileage car I look into on donedeal is a dealer or somebody selling multiple vehicles (but not stating it in the ad).

Wtf? Am I right to be instantly put off by this?

Cookie_Monster · 09-03-2011 3:01pm

Yes

pretending to be private means no warranty, no come back, possible tax evasion as should really be trading as a business and paying appropriately or a whole host of other things they may be trying to avoid to reduce costs and make more cash.

E39MSport · 09-03-2011 3:03pm

meh - a good car is a good car. I've had a terrible time with some so called reputable dealers.

the_syco · 09-03-2011 3:09pm

quad_red wrote: »

Wtf? Am I right to be instantly put off by this?

Yes. By selling as a private seller, they want to sell the car without having to offer a warranty, and for you to have no come-back should faults occur the moment you pay the cash, and drive off.

bazz26 · 09-03-2011 3:29pm

But surely if searching for a car on the likes of donedeal you assume before hand that they are private sellers who offer no warranty. Surely that doesn't change when you find out that it is a dealer selling the car at a similar price and is up front about it having no warranty?

Henry Ford III · 09-03-2011 3:40pm

Yes Bazz but Joe Public might properly be wary of a "sold as seen" car from a dealer.

Posing as a private seller might allow an unscrupulous dealer pass a substandard car off as a good'un and avoid the cost of buying a warranty for it, never mind the tax issues already mentioned.

carface · 09-03-2011 4:08pm

Try not to be so smallminded. Its not a crime for a car dealer to sell cars nor is it a crime for a car dealer to advertise on donedeal @3euro per add in hard times it makes great sence. The decent low milage cars you seek are often traded against new cars and sold on within the trade to independant secondhand dealers so it should not be a surprize nor a concern to you that a car dealer has a decent car for sale. If you have called about a car and the seller is a dealer you should be delighted as regardless of what an add says you will have the protection of the sale of goods act.
In my opinion you should go and view as manys cars as possible(the fact a dealer may have other cars for sale would be a bonus rather than a drawback) besides limiting your choice to private(no comeback)buys.

BigEejit · 09-03-2011 5:39pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes Bazz but Joe Public might properly be wary of a "sold as seen" car from a dealer.

Posing as a private seller might allow an unscrupulous dealer pass a substandard car off as a good'un and avoid the cost of buying a warranty for it, never mind the tax issues already mentioned.

+1

bazz26 · 09-03-2011 8:25pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yes Bazz but Joe Public might properly be wary of a "sold as seen" car from a dealer.

Posing as a private seller might allow an unscrupulous dealer pass a substandard car off as a good'un and avoid the cost of buying a warranty for it, never mind the tax issues already mentioned.

But not all dodgy motors for sale are sold by dealers in hiding. A private seller could dupe a buyer into buying a dodgy motor just as easily, in this case it is down to how savy the buyer is or isn't rather than who is selling the car. When buying in this manner there is an element of risk involved.

the_syco · 10-03-2011 12:16am

carface wrote: »

Its not a crime for a car dealer to sell cars nor is it a crime for a car dealer to advertise on donedeal @3euro per add in hard times it makes great sence.

It's a crime if they sell... I think more than 3 cars a year(?), and not declare themselves as a dealer to the tax man.

Henry Ford III · 10-03-2011 12:26am

bazz26 wrote: »

But not all dodgy motors for sale are sold by dealers in hiding. A private seller could dupe a buyer into buying a dodgy motor just as easily, in this case it is down to how savy the buyer is or isn't rather than who is selling the car. When buying in this manner there is an element of risk involved.

I agree. The risk is balanced by the lower private price however.

Del2005 · 10-03-2011 1:28am

carface wrote: »

Try not to be so smallminded. Its not a crime for a car dealer to sell cars nor is it a crime for a car dealer to advertise on donedeal @3euro per add in hard times it makes great sence. The decent low milage cars you seek are often traded against new cars and sold on within the trade to independant secondhand dealers so it should not be a surprize nor a concern to you that a car dealer has a decent car for sale. If you have called about a car and the seller is a dealer you should be delighted as regardless of what an add says you will have the protection of the sale of goods act.
In my opinion you should go and view as manys cars as possible(the fact a dealer may have other cars for sale would be a bonus rather than a drawback) besides limiting your choice to private(no comeback)buys.

Dealers can advertise as dealers on all the sites. If they aren't advertising as a dealer then they are selling a car they don't trust, so why should we.

I've been looking at cars and any I like I always google the number, several have come back with loads of ads so I just looked elsewhere.

bazz26 · 10-03-2011 1:39am

Del2005 wrote: »

Dealers can advertise as dealers on all the sites. If they aren't advertising as a dealer then they are selling a car they don't trust, so why should we.

I've been looking at cars and any I like I always google the number, several have come back with loads of ads so I just looked elsewhere.

Not necessarily, they could simply be selling on a car that they took in as a part exchange that is either too old to sell on their forecourt or offer warranty on.

carface · 10-03-2011 1:52am

the_syco wrote: »

It's a crime if they sell... I think more than 3 cars a year(?), and not declare themselves as a dealer to the tax man.

Why do you assume a car dealer that you have never meet nor have had any dealings with is not paying tax?? there are lots of soletraders in the motortrade who need to sell cars to survive in business and donedeal is the cheapest means of getting their vehicle to the market.
I know of several people who changed cars more than 3 times in one calender year for different reasons ie.crashed their car bought cheap runabout then bought something fancy decide they dont like it or cannot afford to run it then need something more practical and change it again all this within a couple of months are these people criminals if they dont register as car dealers in your mind.

the_syco · 10-03-2011 2:27am

carface wrote: »

Why do you assume a car dealer that you have never meet nor have had any dealings with is not paying tax??

If they hide the fact that they are a dealer, why do they hide this?

carface wrote: »

there are lots of soletraders in the motortrade who need to sell cars to survive in business and donedeal is the cheapest means of getting their vehicle to the market.

That's cool, and I understand this, but at the same time, why pretend you are a private seller selling only one car, if you are a dealer?

carface wrote: »

are these people criminals if they dont register as car dealers in your mind.

Where did I say that I thought they were criminals? I did point out that if you sell more than maybe 3 cars in a year, you'd be classed as a dealer. Could be more. Think it's 6 cars or more in the UK.

Senna · 10-03-2011 4:21am

Every-time i'm looking for a car and phone someone up, i always say "i'm calling about the car for sale", if their a dealer they'll have to say which car, if its private they'll start talking about the car.

Its not that it makes any difference, but i do like to know whose selling it, the past owner or a dealer.

Del2005 · 10-03-2011 5:58am

bazz26 wrote: »

Not necessarily, they could simply be selling on a car that they took in as a part exchange that is either too old to sell on their forecourt or offer warranty on.

There is no requirement to offer a warranty, but when you buy from a dealer you have legal protection.

If the dealer takes a trade in that's too old for their forecourt they'll sell to the trade, and have priced that into the trade in price, or put it into auctions. If they are pretending to be a private seller then the car must be really bad.

They are trying to avoid their legal responsibility by not advertising as a dealer and therefore shouldn't be trusted.

SuperGrover · 10-03-2011 11:34am

Any time I've looked at buying a car, I've googled the phone number. If it is being sold as a private sale but they are clearly dealers, due to the results from the search, I will move on.

The reason is this... they are being dishonest. End of. It's just not a good start to buying a car. It's an immediate insight into the person's trustworthiness. There may be no guarantees with a genuine private seller but at least you're not definitely dealing with a dishonest person.

I would always get a car checked over by a mechanic anyway and I realise this would also apply to hidden dealers' cars but I just don't want to deal with them or encourage the practise, so I ignore them.

Henry Ford III · 10-03-2011 11:36am

Did you ever hear of a private seller posing as a dealer?

I thought not.

carface · 12-03-2011 9:26pm

[HTML]

the_syco wrote: »

If they hide the fact that they are a dealer, why do they hide this?[/HTML]Because they need to sell cars and smallminded people wont view a car if a dealer is selling it. Once a buyer views a good car they are less bothered as to who is selling it. There is also a security aspect for a seller.

[HTML]That's cool, and I understand this, but at the same time, why pretend you are a private seller selling only one car, if you are a dealer?
[/HTML]A small independant cardealer may only have one car for sale at a time and again it may be cheaper to advertise privately. As for googleing phone numbers its old news anybody selling anything dodgy can simply buy a new 10euro simcard for the purpose of advertising and beat the google detectives.

Del2005 · 13-03-2011 1:06am

carface wrote: »

Because they need to sell cars and smallminded people wont view a car if a dealer is selling it. Once a buyer views a good car they are less bothered as to who is selling it. There is also a security aspect for a seller.

A dealer can't pick and choose when they are a dealer.

As for security for a seller. If they buy a dog it's there though ****, they should have checked it out better. There are strong consumer laws for buying off a dealer and pretending to be a private seller doesn't remove these rights.

If I bought a bad car off someone who turns out to be a dealer pretending to be private seller. If/when it goes to court they'll definitely loose as they misrepresented themselves to avoid the law.

carface wrote: »

A small independant cardealer may only have one car for sale at a time and again it may be cheaper to advertise privately.

While it may be cheaper to advertise privately, they should be taking the cost of advertising into account when they buy the car not when they sell it.

carface wrote: »

As for googleing phone numbers its old news anybody selling anything dodgy can simply buy a new 10euro simcard for the purpose of advertising and beat the google detectives.

There's always dishonest people, but unfortunately the 2nd hand car trade seems to have a larger proportion then most other trades

youcrazyjesus! · 13-03-2011 2:52am

For myself and family members I've looked at loads of cars very recently and would run a mile if I even suspected the private seller was in fact a dealer. Even trying to arrange a viewing for the cars I've had so much trouble with them to a man I'd say you're taking a massive chance on the car itself.

carface · 13-03-2011 12:11pm

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

For myself and family members I've looked at loads of cars very recently and would run a mile if I even suspected the private seller was in fact a dealer. Even trying to arrange a viewing for the cars I've had so much trouble with them to a man I'd say you're taking a massive chance on the car itself.

What would you do when you meet someone to view a car and the car met your requirements the price is right and then they disclose that they are in the motor business and that they are comitting to offer you a warranty on the vehicle........ would you still run a mile??

BigEejit · 13-03-2011 12:24pm

carface wrote: »

What would you do when you meet someone to view a car and the car met your requirements the price is right and then they disclose that they are in the motor business and that they are comitting to offer you a warranty on the vehicle........ would you still run a mile??

Would that be legal?

(and I would run a mile, the dishonesty of the dealer would put me off - what else is he hiding?)

carface · 13-03-2011 12:50pm

BigEejit wrote: »

Would that be legal?

(and I would run a mile, the dishonesty of the dealer would put me off - what else is he hiding?)

IF you can run a mile at short notice you dont need a car.............how would a car dealer offering you a car in good condition with the backup of a warranty at a decent price be illegal or dishonest????

Dues Bellator · 13-03-2011 1:05pm

As was posted here earlier if you want to find out if the seller is a dealer , just say your ringing about the car , he will say which one then hes a dealer , personally i would give 3 months warranty on engine and gearbox on any car i sell , i would also state that i have a couple of cars to sell , this way the buyer will trust you and also recommend you to the friends, the amount of sales i have gotten from happy customers passing on my details to friends and family .
but there a more dodgy dealers out there compared to honest ones , so you really have to beware. i would recommend an AA check rather than asking a mechanic to have a look as you would be suprised how many mechanics know dealers and vice verca .

i think an AA check is 80 euro which is a small price to pay for the piece of mind your getting.

-Chris- · 13-03-2011 4:06pm

carface wrote: »

What would you do when you meet someone to view a car and the car met your requirements the price is right and then they disclose that they are in the motor business and that they are comitting to offer you a warranty on the vehicle........ would you still run a mile??

If the person you are buying a car off identifies themselves as someone who works in the motor business and offers to provide a warranty on that car, then how is that possibly a private sale?

Dealers pretending to be private

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