Are you wearing an Easter Lily this year?

muineachan

I have bought one for the first time this year, I have to admit I hesitated at first given I'm not a Sinn Féinner (and they seem to be the main people supporting them) but I want to wear one irrespective of political party support in the years leading up to 2016, I feel those great people died for their beliefs, ideals & Ireland's path to freedom, and at a time when Ireland is on it's knee's I think it's important to renew the Republic, to build the country we deserve, based upon the dreams of our founders and our own dreams, and no that doesn't mean a 2nd house in Bulgaria, it means looking at what our true core values are and building on them, not overpriced land!

Anyway not a political speech, just a general 'are you wearing one?'

Ardennes1944

where does one buy one?

muineachan

I bought one on the street, if your in the states try ebay, there are some on there, or if not try Sinn Féin's online store

Notorious97

I support Sinn Féin, but thats not why i wear one. I wear one every year, always have since i was in my early teens, im in late 20’s now. I wear it for the reasons you wish to wear it, to remember those who died and who fought for this country in 1916.

Its a gesture in remembrance, its the least we can do, hopefully in the years leading into the 100 anniversary more and more people will show an interest in the 1916 rising.

muineachan

Notorious97 wrote: »

I support Sinn Féin, but thats not why i wear one. I wear one every year, always have since i was in my early teens, im in late 20’s now. I wear it for the reasons you wish to wear it, to remember those who died and who fought for this country in 1916.

Its a gesture in remembrance, its the least we can do, hopefully in the years leading into the 100 anniversary more and more people will show an interest in the 1916 rising.

Good man (/woman), I hope more people do as well, and hope that more people recognise the Lily as a symbol of remembrance and peace rather than tar it with the brush that a few people have done in recent history.

Denerick

Good God no. The calibre of person who normally wears one of these in my community...

Ardennes1944

Denerick wrote: »

Good God no. The calibre of person who normally wears one of these in my community...

...is alot better than those who dont?

The Scientician

I'm gonna get an Easter Lily if I see 'em for sale but then I'll probably wear a poppy in November too.

WilcoOut

Denerick wrote: »

Good God no. The calibre of person who normally wears one of these in my community...

unfortunatly the easter lily, aswell as various other emblems of Ireland, have been hijacked by the republican movement

the easter lily signifies the sacrafice given by Irishmen during the easter rising of 1916

the republican movement, namely sinn fein and the IRA (aswell as its many bastard offshoot organisations and splinter groups), use it as a symbol to commemorate all those who have died for the 'republican cause'. these 'martyrs' included terrorists, muderers and armed robbers

many decent irish patriots, like myself, will not wear the easter lily due to it being devalued and tarnished by sinn fein and its ilk

PatsytheNazi

WilcoOut wrote: »

unfortunatly the easter lily, aswell as various other emblems of Ireland, have been hijacked by the republican movement

the easter lily signifies the sacrafice given by Irishmen during the easter rising of 1916

the republican movement, namely sinn fein and the IRA (aswell as its many bastard offshoot organisations and splinter groups), use it as a symbol to commemorate all those who have died for the 'republican cause'. these 'martyrs' included terrorists, muderers and armed robbers

many decent irish patriots, like myself, will not wear the easter lily due to it being devalued and tarnished by sinn fein and its ilk

Ah yes one of those " I would have been shoulder to shoulder with Collins and Connolly etc if I had been around in 1916 " brigade :rolleyes:

Einhard

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ah yes one of those " I would have been shoulder to shoulder with Collins and Connolly etc if I had been around in 1916 " brigade :rolleyes:

So he's not allowed to have a positive view of the men of 1916 unless he subscribes to SF's view of the Troubles?

I hate that stupid rolly eyes icon. I hate it even more when it's used incorrectly. You completely invented what the other poster had said, and then scorned your misinterpretation of his words. I think he'd be far more justified in rolling his eyes at you than the other way around.

Wolfe Tone

Yes I will wear one this year, never wore one before.

sensibleken

I wont but who sells them and where does the money go?

Morlar

sensibleken wrote: »

I wont

Just out of curiosity is there a reason why not ? Not that they are obligatory or anything, I am just curious to know if there is a particular reason.

sensibleken

Morlar wrote: »

Just out of curiosity is there a reason why not ? Not that they are obligatory or anything, I am just curious to know if there is a particular reason.

I think the proclamation was a beautiful and highly progressive document. When I heard it read out in front of the GPO in december it did stir a little pride inside me. The principles of it were not put into practice by subsequent governments, priciples of equality and cherishing of all the nations children were only noticable by their absence. Therefore I dont see 1916 as the birth of our nation.

uch

Always wear a nice little enamel one to honour all Irish men and women killed in battle/wars/conflict.

Morlar

sensibleken wrote: »

I think the proclamation was a beautiful and highly progressive document. When I heard it read out in front of the GPO in december it did stir a little pride inside me. The principles of it were not put into practice by subsequent governments, priciples of equality and cherishing of all the nations children were only noticable by their absence. Therefore I dont see 1916 as the birth of our nation.

Fair enough & sorry if that seemed like an accusatory sort of question. Generally I will wear one, not religiously though. I have done for some years and some years I have not. It tends to be something I will do if I think of it at the time. Even though there are years when I don't I was just curious about people who never do and never will on principle, what their reasons for this may be and so on.

Felim Uallachain

Certainly not.

uch

Morlar wrote: »

Fair enough & sorry if that seemed like an accusatory sort of question. Generally I will wear one, not religiously though. I have done for some years and some years I have not. It tends to be something I will do if I think of it at the time. Even though there are years when I don't I was just curious about people who never do and never will on principle, what their reasons for this may be and so on.

Felim Uallachain wrote: »

Certainly not.

Reason ? Like morlar, not judging or coming down on one side or another, but just curious why, and also those who do, why ?

Snickers Man

Hope KEvin Myers is happy about all this. He claims to be the one who kick started demands in the media for Irish people to "remember" their fallen compatriots in the First World War and to face up to our heritage by wearing poppies but all he succeeded in doing was having state funerals for the disinterred skeletons of some IRA men hanged by the British in the 1920s and now a load of people saying they will wear an Easter Lilly despite not being "Shinners".

Stickies or Pinnies, guys? Or do you know the subtle difference?

I'm all for learning from the past but this "CO"memmoration bollox really pisses me off. All it is saying is that there is a received view of the past that all must adhere to.

I'll make up my own feckin mind thank you very much.

Move on.

Judgement Day

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Yes I will wear one this year, never wore one before.

I believe you. :rolleyes:

Wolfe Tone

Judgement Day wrote: »

I believe you. :rolleyes:

Why wouldn't you? I have never worn one before.

paky

i'll be wearing one. i normally get one in a florist. they look much better than those sh.itty paper ones sinn fein sell

Rocky Bay

...I will be wearing mine. Have been for years.

Einhard

Two reasons for not wearing one:

First, I think the aactions of the IRA since the War of Independence, and especially during the Troubles, has tarnished the Republican name. I don't wish to be associated, even erronerously, with those I consider to be murderers and terrorists.

Secondly, I'm pretty cold on public expressions of commemoration. Sometimes it seems that private rememberance is the lesser sort somehow. If I remember anyone or anything, I'm perfectly content to do it privately, whether it's purely through thought and reflection, or a private visit to a memorial. I understand why people wear the poppy/lily/whatever, but such public displays aren't for me. Indeed, I often think that some of those wearing such pins and badges, are motivated either by a type of herd mentality, or a desire for their own recognition, rather than genuine rememberance. The bruhaha over Dan Snow's refual to wear the poppy re-enfirced that feeling.

CDfm

I wont be wearing one - though my politics is republican. I am not a Sinn Fein supporter.

Where does the money go.??

If it went towards an Irish Army Charity in the same way the British Poppy does I would not have a problem .

red herring

Its the first time I ever heard of this lily. Why is the lily the flower of choice, is there a reason? To whom does the money generated from the sale of these lilies go to?

CDfm

Einhard wrote: »

First, I think the aactions of the IRA since the War of Independence, and especially during the Troubles, has tarnished the Republican name. I don't wish to be associated, even erronerously, with those I consider to be murderers and terrorists.

OK - I have a problem with this definition.

My grandfather fought in the War of Independence and 1916 and the organisation in the troubles was not the same.

The IRA off that time morphed into the Irish Army etc and the members went back to their ordinary lives. Essentially it was disbanded.

Sinn Fein split into FF & what became FG.

Todays Sinn Fein really do not have a right to the name -yet they use it like a brand name.

It implies succession from other organisations which is not the case.

walrusgumble

CDfm wrote: »

OK - I have a problem with this definition.

My grandfather fought in the War of Independence and 1916 and the organisation in the troubles was not the same.

The IRA off that time morphed into the Irish Army etc and the members went back to their ordinary lives. Essentially it was disbanded.

Sinn Fein split into FF & what became FG.

Todays Sinn Fein really do not have a right to the name -yet they use it like a brand name.

It implies succession from other organisations which is not the case.

You do know that not everyone went home after the civil war. People like Tom Barry remained in the IRA until the 1930's. As did some, ahem lads who got a bit too friendly with the Germans in the 1940's. (Russell, Ryan & McCabe are three to name a few). Other veterans that went to America formed Republican groups that were responsible for the funding of the IRA and Sinn Féin wing right up to the 1970's. Those involved with the IRA in the 1940-1950's (granted it was never the power that it was before or later in the 6 counties) had links to the 1970's movements whether political or military (eg Ruairi O'Bradaigh) It also goes right up to the 1950's, anyone remember that famous court case of Sinn Féin Funds in the 1950's?

Whilst this no way delutes what you are saying, its worth bearing in mind that it is not entirely acturate that the men of the tan war and civil war have exclusivity of the "brand".

CDfm

They were splinter groups really.

When we say IRA we are talking about the "Officials" or "the Provos"

So what I am saying is that people of my grandfathers era would have said - they are not us or our successors as we disbanded and our sucessors are the Irish Army.

Similarly - the political sucessors of Sinn Fein 1918 are FF & FG .

I know that to some it may sound pedantic but Ireland became a democracy and stayed independent probably against all odds.

Other new states and democracies from that era , the Balkans went &Greece, Spain & Portugal were not democratic.

So Ireland as in the Free State and its sucessors have. Other groups calling themselves the same name were a threat to the state.

Thats what something like a national emblem should be celebrating.

And it is our heritage.

Wolfe Tone

red herring wrote: »

Its the first time I ever heard of this lily. Why is the lily the flower of choice, is there a reason? To whom does the money generated from the sale of these lilies go to?

It depends who you buy one off. I believe most give the money to an association which takes care of patriots graves.

Mongarra

I have never worn one and will not change this year. Many of the emblems sold are a fundraiser for Sinn Féin and this is anathema to me.

Also I feel the commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicans.

sensibleken

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It depends who you buy one off. I believe most give the money to an association which takes care of patriots graves.

Some patriots. The National graves association do not look after graves of people who were on the pro-treaty side of the civil war.

Morlar

http://www.nga.ie/history.php

A Brief History Of The National Graves Association
After the rising of 1867, a Memorial Committee was formed in Dublin comprising mainly of Fenians, i.e. James Stritch and surviving members of the rising. They had a number of rules governing the Association, the first being "The Association shall observe a strictly neutral attitude with regard to present day party differences", others being "No speech shall be made at any meeting introducing differences among nationalists" and "Graves of Deceased Patriots should be cared for". Some years later, the organisation became known as The Monuments Committee (of the Young Ireland Society), and later The Graves and Monuments Committee. Under this title many of the best known memorials of the NGA were commissioned, i.e. The Fenian Maid of Erin Memorial, The Stowell Bros., The Amnesty Nolan, The Tallaght Martyrs etc

This Committee was to follow in the footsteps of such patriots as Anne Devlin and her friends who, in 1798, in the dead of night, collected the remains of excecuted or murdered members of the United Irishmen from hedgerows and buried them. In 1898 the "98 Memorial Comittee's" main function was to erect memorials and mark the burial places of executed members of the United Irishmen.

In 1926 the Committee became known as Cumann Uaigheann na Laochra Gael or the National Graves Association, the name which it has retained up to the present day. The continuity link between the original organisation and the NGA in its present form comprises the Fenians, J.W O'Beirne and James Stritch who took part in the rescue of Col. Kelly and Captain Deasy at Manchester in 1867 and who remained on the committee of the NGA until their deaths.

In 1992 the Association decided to form a Private Limited Company registered world-wide to prevent the name being used as a flag of convenience by any political group. In order to maintain the voluntary ethos of the work, a special clause was inserted in the Articles of Association -


"No member of the company shall be appointed to any salaried office, or paid fees and no remuneration of benefit in kind shall be given to any member for work done on behalf of the Association."

The objectives of the Association have always been:

* To restore, where necessary, and maintain fittingly the graves and memorials of our patriot dead of every generation.
* To commemorate those who died in the cause of Irish Freedom.
* To compile a record of such graves and memorials.

The Association is not in receipt of, nor have they ever applied for, state funding of any kind. They depend entirely on voluntary donations from nationally minded people, at home and abroad, and on annual subscriptions from Associate members.

The NGA have erected, or accepted to be placed in their care, in excess of 500 Memorials and Wayside Shrines in the 32 counties of Ireland. The best known of their Memorials, to name but a few, are to Wolfe Tone at Bodenstown, Co. Kildare, Bart Teeling, Co. Sligo, Roddy McCorley, Toomebridge, Co. Antrim, The Croppy Boy in Tralee, Thomas Traynor, Tullow, Co. Carlow and to Páid O Donaghue, Curraha, Co. Meath.

In 1932 they commenced tours of Historic Graves in Glasnevin Cemetery free of charge. These tours are held every Sunday from June to September. In 1934 tours of Kilmainham Jail were conducted by the NGA. In 1938 with the help of Helena Moloney, Maude Gonne McBride and others, they succeeded in preventing the proposed demolition of Kilmainham Jail by the Government of the day. It was later restored by voluntary workers including members of the Association. Many well known names were listed among the Associate membership, Mrs. C. Brugha, Nora Connolly (daughter of James Connolly), the opera singer Margaret Burke-Sheridan, the painter Jack B. Yeats, Nobel peace prize winner Sean McBride, Erskine Childers, Sean T. O'Kelly, Eamonn de Valera, Eileen Davitt (daughter of Michael Davitt), Nurse Elizabeth O'Farrell, Brian O'Higgins, Fr. Ml. O'Flanagan, Count Plunkett and Mrs. Kathleen Clarke (widow of the executed 1916 leader) who chaired the first meetings of 1926, to name a few.
The Association was responsible for the repatriation of the remains of Vols. Dunne and O'Sullivan and Vols. Barnes and McCormack from English prison graves to republican plots in Ireland, also Frank Ryan from East Germany, the Connaught Rangers from India and the reburials of the volunteers executed in Mountjoy and Portlaoise during the period 1940-46.


At the height of the Tan War (War for Independence) the British executed 10 volunteers in Mountjoy Prison, between 1920-21. As was their custom, the bodies were buried in unmarked and unhallowed ground within the confines of the prison walls. In 1923 the relatives of the volunteers requested the remains of their loved ones only to be told by the Free State government that it would stir up trouble for the authorities. The National Graves Association joined in the campaign in the late 1920s to give these men a decent burial. It was with some sense of victory that the Association marked the burial plot within the prison in 1934. Our Committee attended this plot every year up to the late eighties when we realised the authorities were content to allow us to do just that. The National Graves Association never forgot its duty towards these volunteers or indeed towards their relatives. Successive Secretaries campaigned vigorously and our late Secretary, Martesa Kearney (RIP) badgered successive Irish governments and campaigned in both national and international press to have these volunteers interred in hallowed ground with the honour and decency deserved by any volunteer who made the ultimate sacrifice. In 1996 the National Graves Association erected an imposing Celtic Cross in Glasnevin Cemetery dedicated to the forgotten ten. Finally, on October 14th 2001, the campaign culminated in the volunteers being re-interred in Glasnevin Cemetery. Kevin Barry, Patrick Moran, Frank Flood, Thomas Whelan, Thomas Traynor, Patrick Doyle, Thomas Bryan, Bernard Ryan and Edward Foley were buried in Glasnevin Cemetery while Patrick Maher was reinterred in Ballylanders, Co. Limerick. These volunteers were never forgotten by the National Graves Association and indeed will be honoured and remembered by our members when we commemorate the Forgotten Ten.
In 1991, the Association commenced full day and weekend coach tours. The purpose of the tours was to visit thegraves of patriots who might otherwise be forgotten and also as a historic outing for members. As tours are non-profit making, they are not available for the general public. The cost of associate membership is €12 annually (minimum). Associate members are encouraged to have an input into the Association by helping to keep clean and tidy the graves of known patriots in their area, by informing the committee of any memorial in need of repair, by attending commemorations and assisting one of the guides in the Glasnevin tours when large numbers have requested special tours. All members are expected to show the greatest respect for all graves irrespective of the persons interred therein.(The photo shows members of the National Graves Association in front of Cork City Jail.)

The Association has never deviated from its guiding principle "Only a 32 County Irish Republic represents the true aspiration of those who gave their lives for Irish freedom".
grave

Members of the governing body are not allowed by the rules to be a member of any political party. This rule does not apply to associates. The registered office and only correspondence address is National Graves Association, Box No. 7105, 74 Dame Street, Dublin 2. There are no branch committees, there are no County branches, i.e. Belfast National Graves Association, Tyrone National Graves Association. If you are in any doubt, please contact the above address or telephone 087-2282033.


The National Graves Association is an autonomous body, with no affiliation to any political party, organisation or group.

PatsytheNazi

Einhard wrote: »

Two reasons for not wearing one:

First, I think the aactions of the IRA since the War of Independence, and especially during the Troubles, has tarnished the Republican name. I don't wish to be associated, even erronerously, with those I consider to be murderers and terrorists.

CDfm wrote: »

OK - I have a problem with this definition.

My grandfather fought in the War of Independence and 1916 and the organisation in the troubles was not the same.

The IRA off that time morphed into the Irish Army etc and the members went back to their ordinary lives. Essentially it was disbanded.

Sinn Fein split into FF & what became FG.

Todays Sinn Fein really do not have a right to the name -yet they use it like a brand name.

It implies succession from other organisations which is not the case.

The actions of the 'nice' IRA - Collins organising Vinne Byrne and co. to shot policemen in the back, suspected British agents shot in their beds, planting a land mine on the road in Tipperary to blow up a passing British lorry and shooting the wounded left. Kicking in a cottage door and shooting alleged informers in front of their family etc

God, those in the Bogside, the Falls and those of us down here who supported them, should be ashamed of themselves for taking up arms in 1969- against the RUC, Paras, loyalists, orange mobs etc despite decades of unionist thuggery and gross discrimination, as the political parties down in the 'Free' State for decades made political capital with patriotic speeches of the struggle of our forefathers etc

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

Hey Patsy - I wasn't there and even if I had been would have been in my pram.

I was old enough to be aware of the Herema kidnapping, bank robberies, Ben Dunne kidnapping, Senator Billy Fox assasination, Dominic McGlinchey,Mountbatton assasination, and a host of other things that happened in the south.

Now I am not condemning or condoning what happened in the North-what I am saying they dont represent me.

On matters such as economics I strongly disagree with their world view.

PatsytheNazi

CDfm wrote: »

Hey Patsy - I wasn't there and even if I had been would have been in my pram.

I was old enough to be aware of the Herema kidnapping, bank robberies, Ben Dunne kidnapping, Senator Billy Fox assasination, Dominic McGlinchey,Mountbatton assasination, and a host of other things that happened in the south.

Now I am not condemning or condoning what happened in the North-what I am saying they dont represent me.

On matters such as economics I strongly disagree with their world view.

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

(BTW, INLA leader Dominic McGlinchey was one of the greatest, up there with Sean Tracey, Liam Lynch etc His life was sadly typical of many a young man in the six counties at the time. Walking home from a anti internmnet demo, a gang of Brits in a jeep jumped out, beat him senselessly on the street and threw him into Long Kesh for several months. How on earth 'Irish' people can condemn young men like McGlinchey as 'terrorists' while ignoring the terrorism that forced young men like him to turn to the gun is totally beyond me. I hope I'm not been sarcastic, I'm just been honest)

CDfm

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

Well Patsy - you and I are probably what our grandfathers hoped for

brianthebard

Mongarra wrote: »

I have never worn one and will not change this year. Many of the emblems sold are a fundraiser for Sinn Féin and this is anathema to me.

Also I feel the commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicans.

What was the commemoration about before that?

Mongarra

The reason for the commemoration, remembering those who died at various time, but especially at Easter 1916, has not changed. What I am saying, perhaps not very well, is that the memory of those has been tarnished somewhat by the slant being put on it by extreme republicans - Sinn Féin, IRA, Provisional IRA - who appear to think that they are the only legitimate bearers of the torch, whereas there are many, my family included, who would, and did, gladly attend commemorative occasions - remember when there used to be a parade in Dublin, and maybe other places - at Easter. This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

brianthebard

Mongarra wrote: »

This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

Its a commemoration of republicans who held extremist views, that's just a fact of history. Fair enough you don't support the ira campaign in the north for whatever reasons but don't act like their extreme views differ fundamentally from the extreme views of 1916.

PatsytheNazi

One of the things I notice is how some are saying that they don't commerate 1916 etc because of Republicans and 'extremism' etc

Is making speeches for decades about a United Ireland - while doing nothing about it, 'extremism' of the most hypocritical kind ? And then denouncing the those who defended themselves when a whole sale onslaught was made on the nationalists in August 1969, the Falls Road curfew, Bloody Sunday etc in responce to them just asking for civil rights not seen as "extreme" corruption and selfishness ? Indeed is bankrupting the state through corruption, cronyism and incompetence not another form of rotten 'extremism' ?

Seanchai

Mongarra wrote: »

The reason for the commemoration, remembering those who died at various time, but especially at Easter 1916, has not changed. What I am saying, perhaps not very well, is that the memory of those has been tarnished somewhat by the slant being put on it by extreme republicans - Sinn Féin, IRA, Provisional IRA - who appear to think that they are the only legitimate bearers of the torch, whereas there are many, my family included, who would, and did, gladly attend commemorative occasions - remember when there used to be a parade in Dublin, and maybe other places - at Easter. This was stopped when it became a focus for some republicans with extreme views.

So, an "extreme republican" is somebody who believes that Ireland has a right to be ruled by the Irish and finally free from British interference? I see.

Meanwhile, the British nationalist poppy business honours those who died fighting for British rule over indigenous populations across the globe, from the concentration camps of South Africa to the streets of Derry and Cork. And that poppy-wearing rabble are not "extreme" but the Irish who want this tiny country, and this tiny country alone, free from British rule are "extreme". Jesus, and his entire family, wept.

Seanchai

brianthebard wrote: »

Its a commemoration of republicans who held extremist views, that's just a fact of history. Fair enough you don't support the ira campaign in the north for whatever reasons but don't act like their extreme views differ fundamentally from the extreme views of 1916.

It's not a "fact of history", unless the history in question was written by the likes of Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher.

The "extreme" view of Irish history is the one which denies the Irish people the right to rule their own country free from British occupation. It's the same fanatical British colonial mindset which held native people after native people across the world under foot century after century claiming to "civilise" them and other raiméis, while economically, culturally and politically raping them in the name of that supposedly "helpful" British culture. And it is that process of murder, rape and destruction which those British nationalist poppy wearers glorify. It is resistance to that in this country which wearers of the Easter Lily commemorate.

brianthebard

Seanchai wrote: »

It's not a "fact of history", unless the history in question was written by the likes of Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher.

Ok maybe you should back up there and explain why the 1916 rebels are not extremist republicans but the modern ira is. Look I absolutely accept that people will not support the ira in the north, but to say that the 1916 commemoration has been hijacked by extreme republicanism is missing the point in an incredible way.

CDfm

I am within two minds.

The War of Independence and Civil War affected both sides of my parents families. Casualties and emigration. Now the emigration side -everyone had.

The casualty list on one side is very extensive plus one in the Somme. The other grandfather saw comrades go out of control.

So when I see things written - I stop & think.

It is like celebrating Xmas when a relative died at Xmas - bittersweet.

I guess I have gotten that conflicted view.

Take Sean Lemass whose brother Noel got killed up the Dublin Mountains after the civil war ended. I imagine he felt the same.

So there are lots of reasons people did not celebrate.

Einhard

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

God, those in the Bogside, the Falls and those of us down here who supported them, should be ashamed of themselves for taking up arms in 1969- against the RUC, Paras, loyalists, orange mobs etc despite decades of unionist thuggery and gross discrimination, as the political parties down in the 'Free' State for decades made political capital with patriotic speeches of the struggle of our forefathers etc

No, they should be ashamed of themselves for murdering innocent civilians. Not sure how Unionist thuggery and discrimination justifies the plating of bombs in pubs and on busy shopping streets. Maybe though, I'm too sensitive for the kind of things that you obviously believe constitutes a true Republican...

We should have been be 'real' republicans like yourselves and stood "idly by" :rolleyes:

Well considering I was 16 at the time of the GFA, I'm not quite sure what I could have achieved in the 60s before I was even born. Hard to "stand idly by" when one isn't even a tinkle in one's mothers' eye!

However, I'd like to think I would have joined with the protestors in the march and demanded equality of treatment in the North. I wouldn't though have engaged in activities which all too often resulted in the deaths of innocent civilians, including children. You can use that idiotic rolling eyes icon all you like, it won't make me think that the pre-meditated murder and maiming of civilians is justified.

Adrian009

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Ok fair enough CDfm, your a reasonable fellow, I am a bit sharp at times.

(BTW, INLA leader Dominic McGlinchey was one of the greatest, up there with Sean Tracey, Liam Lynch etc His life was sadly typical of many a young man in the six counties at the time. Walking home from a anti internmnet demo, a gang of Brits in a jeep jumped out, beat him senselessly on the street and threw him into Long Kesh for several months. How on earth 'Irish' people can condemn young men like McGlinchey as 'terrorists' while ignoring the terrorism that forced young men like him to turn to the gun is totally beyond me. I hope I'm not been sarcastic, I'm just been honest)

I know where you're coming from, Patsy, but to me joining or supporting the IRA during the Troubles would have just made a bad situation worse.

Defending your people is one thing - I'm no pacifist - but blowing up pubs, geriatics and their grandchildren, Remembrence Day parades, was wrong then and is wrong now.

I've seen for myself what its like to be outnumbered and left to the wolves, but that in no way excuses either of us then doing THE EXACT SAME THING. An eye for a eye leaves both of us blind.