Motor Tax and arrears

Trampas

Purchased a new (2nd hand) car last month and tax was out.

Got new log book and motor tax form yesterday.

Went to pay it this morning online and says I have to pay one month arrears of 33.

I don't mind paying the month but I find it a bit harsh that I have to pay extra fee for something out of my control as I had to wait on the garage to send in the old log book.

If I ring up the motortax office will they cancel the surcharge?

tallaghtmick

get a form off the garda,i got one yesterday for a car i bought that was out of tax 5 months:eek:

Trampas

Will try that but it is hard since the local garda station is only opened from around 10-12 I think. Some crazy time like that

Eoin

You're only liable for motor tax from the start of the month that you bought the car. Sucks a little if you bought it at the end of the month (like I did).

-Chris-

You're only liable for tax from the day you bought it, so if arrears are due I presume they relate to a period you had the car on the road.

How much is the charge you're querying?

Atlantic Dawn

The arrears are correct, you got the car last month so you are liable for that back month a plus whatever period you plan to tax it for.

MarkR

You can fill out a form in the garda station to swear a period of non-use. If you weren't using the car of course. If you were driving the car, then you'd have to pay the back tax.

Eoin

It's from the start of the month Chris - the motor tax form doesn't take into account the day of a month.

Eoin

Eoin wrote: »

It's from the start of the month Chris - the motor tax form doesn't take into account the day of a month.

So if you bought a car on the 27th of February and drove it on the road you have to pay motor tax for February

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

So if you bought a car on the 27th of February and drove it on the road you have to pay motor tax for February

My father once bought a car on the 29th Feb and was liable:D

Eoin

RoverJames wrote: »

So if you bought a car on the 27th of February and drove it on the road you have to pay motor tax for February

Correct. I got stung last year - I bought my car at the end of November and had to pay the arrears for the whole month.

-Chris-

Eoin wrote: »

It's from the start of the month Chris - the motor tax form doesn't take into account the day of a month.

Absolutely true, but we don't know what date the OP bought the car .

Trampas

-Chris- wrote: »

Absolutely true, but we don't know what date the OP bought the car .

bought the car in Feb. Tax was out in December but change off ownership went through in March as garage didn't send it in until March.

-Chris-

What date in Feb?

bazz26

Trampas wrote: »

bought the car in Feb. Tax was out in December but change off ownership went through in March as garage didn't send it in until March.

The DOE will go by the date that was signed by you and the seller on the change of ownership section on the back of the old Vehicle Registration Document. For example if you and the seller filled out the change of ownership section on 25th February but the garage didn't post it to the DOE in Shannon until 3rd of March. The DOE will put you down as the new registered owner from 25th of February. That means that you are liable for motor tax for the entire month of February unless you didn't pick the car up from the garage until 1st March.

Check the date ownership transferred to you on the new Vehicle Registration Cert. I bet it is dated February.

gravityisalie

i bought a car in november , i havent insured it so can't tax it ( at least that what i make from the motor tax form ) don't worry i'm only doing the odd lap in the field , i just got an insurance quote yesterday so should have the forms fairly soon , do i go to the motor tax office first to get a form for the gardai to fill out saying the car wasn't being used ? am i gonna get a telling off ? the car is registered to my parents address where i keep the car , but i live at a different address and my license is in the different address , does it matter ? sorry for all the stupid questions , i'm new at this and have noone to ask:o

CiniO

Trampas wrote: »

bought the car in Feb. Tax was out in December but change off ownership went through in March as garage didn't send it in until March.

Take a look at your registration certificate.
What does it say in the field C9?

Trampas

Bought in Feb and signed for Feb but tax office didn't receive this March.

I understand I have to pay for Feb but just feel not fair than I am getting an arrears fine for over a couple of days.

C9 is Feb

-Chris-

What date in Feb?

bazz26

Trampas wrote: »

Bought in Feb and signed for Feb but tax office didn't receive this March.

I understand I have to pay for Feb but just feel not fair than I am getting an arrears fine for over a couple of days.

C9 is Feb

They are not fining you but pressuming you used the car in February (I know only a few days) so you are being back dated. It's unfair but that is the way the motor tax system is unfortunately.

mayflyatr

I bought a car the end of last April and signed the logbook on the 28th without thinking about the roadtax dates. Just got a form signed by the Gardai to say it was off the road until the 1st May. Job done.

Gardai will sign it no probs once your not taking the p*ss.

bazz26

mayflyatr wrote: »

I bought a car the end of last April and signed the logbook on the 28th without thinking about the roadtax dates. Just got a form signed by the Gardai to say it was off the road until the 1st May. Job done.

Gardai will sign it no probs once your not taking the p*ss.

Gardai don't care if you lie or not about the car being off the road. They are only stamping the form as a witness to the declaration that the owner is making.

mayflyatr

Some will ask questions or look for proof if it is for an extended period of time, like I said taking the p*ss.

bazz26 wrote: »

Gardai don't care if you lie or not about the car being off the road. They are only stamping the form as a witness to the declaration that the owner is making.

Eoin

The arrears isn't a fine - I think it's that they don't issue a disc for a month that's already finished. So the arrears is just the tax for Feb, and you will now be paying for the tax from March till whenever.

Eoin

Eoin wrote: »

So the arrears is just the tax for Feb, and you will now be paying for the tax from March till whenever.

The arrears are slightly more than a 1/3 of a 3 month tax disc though Nothing huge, but a bit more.

-Chris-

Arrears for the month costs €33.30
Tax for the year costs €333

€333 divided by 12 is €27.75.

So the extra fee for paying arrears for one month is €5.55.

I still don't know when Trampas bought the car, so I don't know if he's paying €33 arrears for 1 day's use of the car, or for 30.

Certainly, if it's anything more than 15 days I'd move on.
If it's less than 15 days, I'd rapidly become aware of the fact that there's nothing I can do about it, grumble a bit, and move on.

Trampas

I'll just grumble and move on.

Thanks for your feedback lads.

Something to learn from in future

unkel

-Chris- wrote: »

we don't know what date the OP bought the car .

-Chris- wrote: »

What date in Feb?

-Chris- wrote: »

What date in Feb?

-Chris- wrote: »

I still don't know when Trampas bought the car

You're a bit slow today, Chris

It doesn't matter whether the OP bought the car on the 1st of February or on the 28th. He still owes one full month arrears when he is taxing the car in March...

Unless the car has not been on the public road at any moment in February since the day the OP bought the car, in which case he can have his signed tax renewal form stamped by a Garda and not pay any arrears...

-Chris-

unkel wrote: »

You're a bit slow today, Chris

It doesn't matter whether the OP bought the car on the 1st of February or on the 28th. He still owes one full month arrears when he is taxing the car in March...

Yup, I realise that, but what I was getting at was this: :P:)

-Chris- wrote: »

I still don't know when Trampas bought the car, so I don't know if he's paying €33 arrears for 1 day's use of the car, or for 30.

Certainly, if it's anything more than 15 days I'd move on.
If it's less than 15 days, I'd rapidly become aware of the fact that there's nothing I can do about it, grumble a bit, and move on.

Really I was looking for context - how much use of the car Trampas got in February should dictate whether the complaint about extra fees/arrears is a "legitimate" one or not...

unkel

-Chris- wrote: »

Really I was looking for context - how much use of the car Trampas got in February should dictate whether the complaint about extra fees/arrears is a "legitimate" one or not...

It really doesn't matter, Chris, how much use of the car the OP got. Even if he didn't get any use of the car and it was just parked on the road, the arrears are due. The rule is crystal clear, no legitimate complaint is possible

-Chris-

unkel wrote: »

It really doesn't matter, Chris, how much use of the car the OP got. Even if he didn't get any use of the car and it was just parked on the road, the arrears are due. The rule is crystal clear, no legitimate complaint is possible

We'll agree to disagree...

unkel

-Chris- wrote: »

We'll agree to disagree...

Not sure what you can disagree with?

Unless you are advocating the OP does not pay the tax he owes?

-Chris-

unkel wrote: »

Not sure what you can disagree with?

Unless you are advocating the OP does not pay the tax he owes?

I'm primarily thinking of this:

Trampas wrote: »

I don't mind paying the month but I find it a bit harsh that I have to pay extra fee for something out of my control as I had to wait on the garage to send in the old log book.

If I ring up the motortax office will they cancel the surcharge?

You can't cancel the surcharge, you have to pay your arrears. That's it, tough luck.

I'm mainly thinking I'd have sympathy for Trampas (or anyone in that situation) if they bought the car at the end of the month, whereas if you bought the car in the first week or two of the month I'd say you got fair use of it and there's no point in cribbing over the additional cost of paying the arrears rate.

No debate over whether the arrears should be paid, just whether you got "value for money" for the arrears (if you know what I mean).

CiniO

unkel wrote: »

. He still owes one full month arrears when he is taxing the car in March...

Unless the car has not been on the public road at any moment in February since the day the OP bought the car, in which case he can have his signed tax renewal form stamped by a Garda and not pay any arrears...

To be exact not "has not been on the public road" but "has not been used on public place"
I don't know if it makes a difference, but maybe it does.

unkel wrote: »

It really doesn't matter, Chris, how much use of the car the OP got. Even if he didn't get any use of the car and it was just parked on the road, the arrears are due. The rule is crystal clear, no legitimate complaint is possible

It's not so clear.
Because what does "using a car in public place" mean?
Is it just when you are driving it, or even when car is parked then it means it's being used.

-Chris-

CiniO wrote: »

It's not so clear.
Because what does "using a car in public place" mean?
Is it just when you are driving it, or even when car is parked then it means it's being used.

It is clear, Victor's addressed it already. Parking is the same as driving in the eyes of the law.

CiniO

-Chris- wrote: »

It is clear, Victor's addressed it already. Parking is the same as driving in the eyes of the law.

The law only requires vehicles to be taxed when used on public roads.

1.—(1) On and after the 1st day of January, 1953, there shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, be charged, levied and paid in respect of mechanically propelled vehicles used on public roads duties of excise at the rates specified in the Schedule to this Act.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1952/en/act/pub/0024/print.html

The whole thing now is about what exactly "to use a vehicle" mean.
Is it defined anywhere?

To make it more funny, when signing declaration of no use on motor tax renewal form rf100a, you are the following:

I declare that the vehicle has not been used by me or with my consent in a public place
in the period

Is "public place" the same as "public road" specified in the act?

-Chris-

Why are you getting into this pedantic analysis?

Trampas hasn't brought up any of these issues and none of them seem to be relevant to his query.

CiniO

-Chris- wrote: »

Why are you getting into this pedantic analysis?

Trampas hasn't brought up any of these issues and none of them seem to be relevant to his query.

I can open a new thread then.

-Chris-

Of course you can. Knock yourself out.