Clamping appeal problem

peposhi · 09-03-2011 3:48am #1

Hi

My friend's wife has parked her car in Dublin, paid for 1 hour parking ticket, left it on dashboard and went to do some biz. She came back in 20min - car was clamped. Called the clamping guys, and was told she had no ticket displayed. Then she discovered the ticket has fallen off the dash. She bought it at 14.27h, she got her car clamped at 14.39h. So, she had to pay 125 Euro to get the clamp removed. Later she filled and sent an appeal form. Today she got letter stating her appeal has been declined. Reason - no ticket displayed. And in a very ironic way she's been told to appeal further if she''s not happy with it. There's a great feeling of injustice here cause she bought a ticket. She's sent them the original to show them and kept a copy of it for herself.
There's a fee of 20Euro if she decides to re-appeal.
Is there a point to do it? It's really frustrating situation. Instead to spend the money in local groceries, she paid for something she shouldn't have to!!!
I have a copy of all the documents and I could post them here so you can see all the details if necessary.

I'd very much appreciate if you share your experience.

Victor · 09-03-2011 4:03am

peposhi wrote: »

Then she discovered the ticket has fallen off the dash. She bought it at 14.27h, she got her car clamped at 14.39h.

As far as they can tell, anyone could have given her that ticket.

peposhi · 09-03-2011 4:27am

Victor wrote: »

As far as they can tell, anyone could have given her that ticket.

Even if someone did give her a ticket makes no difference. They can not prove that, so they can not say it. She has the ticket, that's important here, I believe. OK it has fallen from the dash, but she paid for it. Had she not bought it - that's fine, she's at fault - pay the charge and forget it... but she paid for the "privilege" to park there

Victor · 09-03-2011 4:33am

But she didn't comply with the rules, inadvertently or not.

peposhi · 09-03-2011 4:38am

Victor wrote: »

But she didn't comply with the rules, inadvertently or not.

Here I agree...

Should she re-appeal? What do you think? It's an extra 20 quid... or better use them for a pack of beer to forget about the problem...

ScouseMouse · 09-03-2011 9:23am

peposhi wrote: »

Even if someone did give her a ticket makes no difference. They can not prove that, so they can not say it. She has the ticket, that's important here, I believe. OK it has fallen from the dash, but she paid for it. Had she not bought it - that's fine, she's at fault - pay the charge and forget it... but she paid for the "privilege" to park there

They may be able to prove it. The parking lads outside my place take digital camera photos of the windscreen from all angles and keep them on file. So theses guys at least, CAN prove it was not displayed.

Cabaal · 09-03-2011 9:43am

To be honest I'd see it as a waste of 20e, the ticket wasn't displayed so it doesn't matter if it was bought the Terms of use of the ticket were not complied with.

It not the companys fault the ticket wasn't on the dash as thats the responsbility of the person using the car

Paulw · 09-03-2011 10:28am

peposhi wrote: »

Here I agree...

Should she re-appeal? What do you think?

No point at all in appealing.

It's "Pay and Display". Your friend didn't display, so has no chance of winning an appeal.

Always make sure the ticket is visible, after you close the doors. It can sometimes be blown when you shut the door.

wyndham · 09-03-2011 10:39am

I take it from the amount paid it was NCPS and not DCC? If it were the council I'd say you had a chance but not with a private operator.

09-03-2011 11:32am

A quick trawl through google will show that others did not appeal successfully.

Its totally unfair, but they do have the "display" part in their favour and as a private company, they won't give a toss.

Idea - place the ticket in the little holder displaying the tax disc, or get another tax disc holder just for parking tickets. On a windy day these tickets can move of their own accord especially if there's even the smallest gap in the window.

Idea for insurance company / aa or others. Make a little holder with your branding for these tickets! - Cheap advertising and a great help to motorists. mmmm - I might do it myself

dudara · 09-03-2011 4:03pm

It is "Pay AND Display" - it's your duty to make that ticket is clearly visible. If you don't do that, then you are not fulfilling the T&Cs of the parking arrangement.

DOC09UNAM · 09-03-2011 4:05pm

Should have removed it herself, or got someone to remove it for her.

The Muppet · 09-03-2011 4:12pm

Very same happened my son in a train station two weeks ago except they had him on cctv at the ticket kiosk, still unsuccessful with his appeal, He says he'll take a hacksaw to the clamp if it ever happens again , as an apprentice €120 is a fair chunk of his weekly wage so I would understand if he did.

DOC09UNAM · 09-03-2011 4:42pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Very same happened my son in a train station two weeks ago except they had him on cctv at the ticket kiosk, still unsuccessful with his appeal, He says he'll take a hacksaw to the clamp if it ever happens again , as an apprentice €120 is a fair chunk of his weekly wage so I would understand if he did.

Fancy meeting you here :pac:

But yeah, I'd get someone else to take it off for him though, because even if they are around and they do take pictures, they can't prove it was him :P

peposhi · 09-03-2011 5:09pm

Thanks everyone!
I'll show her the thread and she can decide...

Thanks again for your support and opinions!!!

The Muppet · 09-03-2011 5:15pm

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Fancy meeting you here :pac:

But yeah, I'd get someone else to take it off for him though, because even if they are around and they do take pictures, they can't prove it was him :P

He's a chip off the old block, he'd probably pose for them.

Daisy! · 09-03-2011 7:13pm

Has anyone actually ever appealed and gotten their money back? I've never heard of anyone getting any satisfaction from this lot. I love how the clampers tell you to appeal knowing full well you won't get anywhere.

Paulw · 09-03-2011 7:51pm

Yes, people do win appeals when they have a good case.

A few posts on motors section of people winning appeals.

davo10 · 09-03-2011 8:16pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Very same happened my son in a train station two weeks ago except they had him on cctv at the ticket kiosk, still unsuccessful with his appeal, He says he'll take a hacksaw to the clamp if it ever happens again , as an apprentice €120 is a fair chunk of his weekly wage so I would understand if he did.

Then he'll have to pay the fine PLUS the cost of the damage to the clamp. I'm pretty certain they keep a record of the cars they clamp so would know who had damaged their clamp. As stated it's "pay and display".

DOC09UNAM · 09-03-2011 8:17pm

davo10 wrote: »

Then he'll have to pay the fine PLUS the cost of the damage to the clamp. I'm pretty certain they keep a record of the cars they clamp so would know who had damaged their clamp. As stated it's "pay and display".

They can't legally prove who damaged the clamp without evidence.

dr ro · 09-03-2011 8:20pm

do you not get 10 or 15 mins grace to get to nearest working ticket machine and back. I mean they can't clamp your car as soon as you walk away can they. Your friends wife only got 12 minutes. That's quick work by the clampers. It was obviously the private sector company!

peposhi · 09-03-2011 8:47pm

dr ro wrote: »

do you not get 10 or 15 mins grace to get to nearest working ticket machine and back. I mean they can't clamp your car as soon as you walk away can they. Your friends wife only got 12 minutes. That's quick work by the clampers. It was obviously the private sector company!

She did not borrow a ticket afterwards to cover up nor cheated in any way. She bought a ticket, left it on dash board, ticket goes on car floor, clamping guy sees NO ticket (probably did not even bother checking), clamps the car, she pays the fine, appeals, gets appeal rejected... That's the short story...
I sent her a link of this thread so she could check what other people's experience was and decide what to do.

Thanks again to every single one who shared his/her opinion!
And I wish you to not get in to situations like this one...

The Muppet · 09-03-2011 8:55pm

davo10 wrote: »

Then he'll have to pay the fine PLUS the cost of the damage to the clamp. I'm pretty certain they keep a record of the cars they clamp so would know who had damaged their clamp. As stated it's "pay and display".

I doubt he'd pay, he only paid this time because he was told he would get his money back on appeal. he'll hardly be taken in by that again. perhaps they could appeal his decision not to.

The Muppet · 09-03-2011 10:01pm

Paulw wrote: »

Yes, people do win appeals when they have a good case.

A few posts on motors section of people winning appeals.

Searched and couldn't find anyone winning an appeal, could you link to these successful appeals please.

Has anyone ever taken this to a small claims court? I hadn't realised the grey nature of this game.

dr ro · 10-03-2011 1:17am

glue clamps key hole. That's what the French did. No more clampers over there

dudara · 10-03-2011 9:33am

dr ro wrote: »

glue clamps key hole. That's what the French did. No more clampers over there

We cannot condone the wilful destruction of private or public property. Please refrain stick to the topic at hand which is about appealing a parking fine.

BrianD · 10-03-2011 5:42pm

peposhi wrote: »

She did not borrow a ticket afterwards to cover up nor cheated in any way. She bought a ticket, left it on dash board, ticket goes on car floor, clamping guy sees NO ticket (probably did not even bother checking), clamps the car, she pays the fine, appeals, gets appeal rejected... That's the short story...
I sent her a link of this thread so she could check what other people's experience was and decide what to do.

Thanks again to every single one who shared his/her opinion!
And I wish you to not get in to situations like this one...

DCC seem to refund 50% of the clamping fee if this happens. You need to produce the ticket though.

BrianD · 10-03-2011 5:46pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Searched and couldn't find anyone winning an appeal, could you link to these successful appeals please.

Has anyone ever taken this to a small claims court? I hadn't realised the grey nature of this game.

I've won an appeal against NCPS - took two long letters though. I have also had DSPS remove a clamp without having to pay and appeal!

Other things to note - credit card companies will never put a stop on any money going to a clamper. They will tell you to take it up with "local trading standards".

It is a grey area in that there is no adequate codes of practices or laws on private properties. However, if you park on private property it is on their terms.

Victor · 11-03-2011 12:10am

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

They can't legally prove who damaged the clamp without evidence.

CCTV?

dr ro wrote: »

do you not get 10 or 15 mins grace to get to nearest working ticket machine and back. I mean they can't clamp your car as soon as you walk away can they. Your friends wife only got 12 minutes. That's quick work by the clampers. It was obviously the private sector company!

There is no entitlement to a grace period. For certain offences, e.g. parking in a wheelchair space, there is no grace period.

peposhi wrote: »

She did not borrow a ticket afterwards to cover up nor cheated in any way. She bought a ticket, left it on dash board, ticket goes on car floor, clamping guy sees NO ticket (probably did not even bother checking), clamps the car

You're just making stuff up now.

The Muppet wrote: »

Searched and couldn't find anyone winning an appeal, could you link to these successful appeals please.

Dublin City Council do an annual report. About 1% of clampings are appealed and about half of them are somewhat successful.

BrianD · 11-03-2011 10:56am

Victor wrote: »

CCTV?

Dublin City Council do an annual report. About 1% of clampings are appealed and about half of them are somewhat successful.

Have a look at it. Makes some interesting reading!

Funniest appeal was - woman parks car on street where there are no restrictions. Returns to find car clamped and a brand new 'no parking sign' erected on the pavement beside it.

Appeal successful. The appeals officer remarked on the merit of including photos in an appeal as the wet cement surrounding the new sign was clearly visible!

Clamping appeal problem

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