getting dis-illusioned with dating/relationships/what women want

LegacyUser

I am 33, single male and its come to the stage now where i have lost all interest in women, whether ONS, dating or relationships.

I'm just a regular guy in the city, 'good looking', with a professional job but have started to have doubts about if i am right for women these days.

Even when I go out I don't approach them anymore or make an effort to befriend them even, as I know nothing will become of it. It used to lead to something doing this, but that is when i didn't take it too seriously - now I feel paranoid and serious and feel women are out to get me once they see my face.

Yes I have been hurt by a handful of women - perhaps I tried too hard and was too agreeable and accessible, though not all the time mind, thought I got the balance right. I have kind of come to the conclusion that it's just best to stay away from them and it's their loss etc etc.

It's a cruel world out there, girls around my age and well into the 30s should be wanting something steady, reliable and safe (like me!!), they go on about 'mr right' etc. but trust me it's the last thing they want.

Without sounding cliched, to me women want and will stay with the following: a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....These to me are the qualities and type of guys women find attractive now. I have had first hand experience of this or I have observed from a far. I have been the 'other guy' who has been dumped or finished last. I am not bitter or feeling sorry for myself and lots of good guys will agree with me.

It's not fair!

LegacyUser

Hurt_, I could have written your post except I'm a woman! Last time I broke up with a bloke I loved to bits it was because of a combination of things that lead me to understand he had no respect for me or for women generally. He saw it as some sort of prudish crime that I didn't:

- Wear thongs
- go down on him every single day
- Like having fingers shoved up my arse during sex

I guess he'd just watched too much porn for his own good, or mine. It was sad. I really loved him. Dont know why I'm telling you any of this. Just to give you an idea of what women have to put up with I suppose.

solovely

Going around with those attitudes, you are never going to find anyone!! Don't tar all women/ men with the same brush. Be a bit more open minded. Don't be a pushover. Yes, people want "Mr. Right", but that means also being "Mr. Confident", "Mr. Good Craic", "Mr. Stand Up for Me"...

I am single and do agree with you one point - I would go for any of the above over "Mr. Safe, Steady, Reliable"....that's probably why I still am single (and in your age bracket), but I'm not at a stage where I'm willing to settle just yet. I'm far from giving up.

perhaps I tried too hard and was too agreeable and accessible

Yes, sounds like you do try way too hard.
Be a bit more selfish. We don't want bastards, far from it, but we do want guys who aren't a pushover, who are happy with themselves. Being single and in your 30s, you've lived enough of life to be in a situation where you should be happy in yourself and not be living your life trying to please others (or potential others).

Although it sounds like you have already given up...

LegacyUser

A man will stay with a girl with big boobs, a girl who likes to party a lot, a girl who is considered hot by his friends, a girl who does not have children, a girl who is well off, a girl who can cook, a girl who is his friend, a girl who does have children, a girl who is funny, a girl who is herself!!!!! The list goes on and on and on and on!!

A man will stay with a woman who he has feelings for and so will a woman regardless of whether he is a drug addict, has children or is unemployed. Women stay with men that they connect with on some level whether that is emotional or sexual or both.

Maybe you are trying to hard. Think about what you want in a woman. What kind of woman would make you happy. Is she funny or smart! Is she goodlooking?

You do sound bitter. Take a break from the dating scene. And when you get back on it. Look for more than the shallow what do you work at ? where do you live? how good looking are you?(its only important that you find them attractive) Look beyond these factors because it does not say much about the person at all.

You cannot say what women should want. All women are not the same. Women do want someone to rely on however they also want someone who they connect with, who they can fall in love with, who they can have great sex with and a man does not need to be wealthy, hugely sucessfull, college educated and good looking to provide this for a woman.

dory

hurt__ wrote: »

Without sounding cliched, to me women want and will stay with the following: a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....These to me are the qualities and type of guys women find attractive now. I have had first hand experience of this or I have observed from a far. I have been the 'other guy' who has been dumped or finished last. I am not bitter or feeling sorry for myself and lots of good guys will agree with me.

As a bystander to male/female relationships (being gay and all) it seems men are after women with no personality, no hobbies, no drive in life, just an ability to sit in at night watching DVDs and putting on weight together, or else go get hammered on the weekend and spend all day hungover. Having no noteworthy talent and cheating are also fine.

So it works both ways. I do believe they say life is a b1tch. One thing I have noticed from women is that they do not like pushovers, so don't leave your back bone at home when you step out for the evening.

SlimCi

I would say women don't actually know what we want.....! We know more what we don't want if you get my drift. I would agree with the last poster that we don't want a pushover. I am in my 40's but think that younger women are far more mercenary nowadays. That said in order to meet the right person you have to put yourself out there and risk rejection and hurt. I would say though be choosy and don't just chat someone up in the pub for the sake of it....a bit of mystery in a man is nice too, don't give everything away about yourself first go....and do play a little hard to get, but not too hard..... It is my experience that pubs etc also are not the best places to meet your life companion if thats what you are looking for. People who have interests in common often seem to me to have really solid relationships, so maybe join a club or something that you are interested and let the rest happen naturally..

RuthieC

It's very easy to get jaded when you get into your 30s, and life hasn't been as good to you on the whole romantic front as you'd have liked. I'm there too (though I'm a woman), and yes if I had the choice between being single and falling in love, I'd choose love every time.

One thing I would say from your post, is that meeting someone or chatting someone up in a bar is probably not the way forward. For me, that's something I did in my teens/20s and usually led to nothing more than casual flings. The older I've got, when I go out with my friends it's to hang out with my friends. It's not to score or pick up. That might be just me... but if you're not getting a good response in that area it could be the reason.

I'd suggest taking a step back. Find some other way to meet people. A way that means you get to know them before you date them. Like a club, or even those bootcamp things, something that you enjoy - so that it's not just about meeting someone, but also having a laugh too.

And for the record... women don't fall in love with labels, the fall in love with personalities.

Distorted

dory wrote: »

As a bystander to male/female relationships (being gay and all) it seems men are after women with no personality, no hobbies, no drive in life, just an ability to sit in at night watching DVDs and putting on weight together, or else go get hammered on the weekend and spend all day hungover. Having no noteworthy talent and cheating are also fine.

So it works both ways. I do believe they say life is a b1tch. One thing I have noticed from women is that they do not like pushovers, so don't leave your back bone at home when you step out for the evening.

So true in so many cases. Me and my gay male friend have often agreed on this.

OP - do you have any interests outwith work and trying to meet someone? Its just that I think you need more than a common desire to settle down to gel with another person. At least you can meet people like this, but its a bit shallow and dull, and more like a contract than a relationship.

Also, I often think some men are looking more for a role to be filled than to hit it off with someone's personality, and it can be quite off-putting.

Also, where are you trying to meet women? If its pubs and clubs, then you're more likely to meet women interested in having a good time than settling down there and then.

LegacyUser

Its OP here. Some good replies.

It's not just in pubs and clubs I try to meet girls. Yes, I have in the past that thought that you could win a girls heart and get her to like you even more by being 'there' and being like a helpful big brother, to have them never doubt you, even when you're on a night out with lads. Seems I was wrong...oh if I could turn back time!

Its hard to have faith in girls now, I know this is getting deep but i feel I will end up alone and the bad boys will be happily attached with my ex's (sorry for sounding cliched).

As they say 'once bitten, twice shy'...It's best to be lonely rather than lonely & hurt.

By the way, Do any other guys purposely play things cool and mysterious with girls (even though you don't want to) so that they don't get hurt?

Can't believe I have just copped on to women....at 33!!

You seem a tad bitter toward women. It's no wonder you don't have much success anymore
Add that to "I've tried to be agreeable" and it's heading down to "but I'm a nice guy" territorry.

As for the poster who says women don't know what we want - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


"Do any other guys purposely play things cool and mysterious with girls (even though you don't want to) so that they don't get hurt?"
Playing games is not going to help you get anywhere

"Can't believe I have just copped on to women....at 33!!"
You haven't "copped on" to anything except being bitter and angry because you've been rejected.

Women like confidence, that's what I will tell you. A guy who is too agreeable and bends over backwards too much and doesnt stand up for himself - that's what women don't want. Some women can confuse arrogant guys with confident ones which is maybe where the bad boy stereotype comes from.

LegacyUser

I'm a 30 something woman and I was friends with a guy who had women (pretty, intelligent, well dressed and nice women) fall weak at the knees for him. He was quite tall but definitely not handsome, very quiet at work, quite serious about his job but he had this way about him that made women fall head over heels for him. What I noticed is that he protrayed a maturity beyond his years, would give a girl all his attention in a way that made you feel special but the next day he (intentionally) behaved like it never happened. I stress here that he isn't gay, he was incredibly manly yet sensitive, most of his friends at work were women but would throw back the pints with the lads too. The key thing was he was elusive. I saw women literally throw themselves at him and he took the higher ground and didn't explain why he wasn't interested., just behaved like a gentleman. He ended up hooking up with a girl but never gave too much away to her. I think he was a bit nervous about getting close and she was crazy about him. He just had this way about him. It was never intentional with him, it was just the way he was and it made him irresistable. There were a lot hotter guys at work but this guy over took them all. We found it fascinating. I guess my point is for both women and men, they want someone who has a 'something' about them. I'm not sure if that's helpful but I saw it with my own eyes.

James400

bluewolf wrote: »

Women like confidence, that's what I will tell you. A guy who is too agreeable and bends over backwards too much and doesnt stand up for himself - that's what women don't want. Some women can confuse arrogant guys with confident ones which is maybe where the bad boy stereotype comes from.

I think the thing here is how different women define 'confident', 'too agreeable', 'bends over backwards' and 'doesn't stand up for himself'.

You see it and hear it all the time from single women 'looking for a decent, genuine guy' etc.

The problems start arising when the guy who's dating the particular women (or even when he meets her before dating), thinks in his own mind that he is exactly that- a genuinely decent bloke. But the woman in question labels him as 'too agreeable'. Then you have situations like how the OP feels when guys think that they can't do anymore..they're suddenly being labeled...and eventually dumped/got rid of.

The OP's reaction is understandable, what does a guy have to do?

LegacyUser

OP here again...

What does a guy have to do? I'm not so sure, modern life has made relationships so complex...text messages, facebook (if you're on it, which i'm not)....everyone is walking around paranoid about how they stand with their other half!!

There are decent guys out there sitting in on their own every night and weekend cause they have been emotionally hurt by women. Yes, they can go out and try to move on with others and stop being bitter, but who wants to go into the boxing ring again?? It's a big game (even though 'games' may not be played between 2) at the end of the day.

beks101

hurt__ wrote: »

Without sounding cliched, to me women want and will stay with the following: a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....

What a bizarre list. A drug user? A married man? A waster? I don't think I'm just speaking for myself when I say :rolleyes::rolleyes: No thanks mate...never have, never will.

There's a hint of arrogance in your post to be honest. You're measuring yourself against other men and coming to the conclusion that because you tick the superficial boxes that these other lucky-in-love men don't...good job, 'good looking'...you're the 'Mr Right' that girls are passing over for the assholes and losers who are below you. As if 'women' should know better and the world owes you a break.

No it doesn't and no we shouldn't. I like a man who's ambitious, hard working and easy on the eye as much as the next girl, but far more important is his respect for me, how he treats me and how he makes me feel. Compassion, sense of humour, someone who doesn't take himself too seriously. I doubt while you are shying away from women in the bar because we're all 'out to get you', you're exuding an air of confidence and ease with yourself that that these other men you perceive as 'losers' seem to have on you.

Dating is not easy, not always fun and at worst, downright frustrating, but you have the same chance as any other guy out there and it's your own attitude that's making it worse. The Me-Versus-Women is too easy to be honest, it lets you off the hook, when the fact is if you want to change your dating pattern, you're going to have to drop the attitude and generalisations and start approaching women again. If you're meeting the wrong ones - learn from it - go to different places, change your approach, change your haircut, whatever...just quit the judgements and bitterness and get rid of the chip on your shoulder because we can smell it a mile away.

beks101

beks101 wrote: »

What a bizarre list. A drug user? A married man? A waster? I don't think I'm just speaking for myself when I say :rolleyes::rolleyes: No thanks mate...never have, never will.

There's a hint of arrogance in your post to be honest. You're measuring yourself against other men and coming to the conclusion that because you tick the superficial boxes that these other lucky-in-love men don't...good job, 'good looking'...you're the 'Mr Right' that girls are passing over for the assholes and losers who are below you. As if 'women' should know better and the world owes you a break.

No it doesn't and no we shouldn't. I like a man who's ambitious, hard working and easy on the eye as much as the next girl, but far more important is his respect for me, how he treats me and how he makes me feel. Compassion, sense of humour, someone who doesn't take himself too seriously. I doubt while you are shying away from women in the bar because we're all 'out to get you', you're exuding an air of confidence and ease with yourself that that these other men you perceive as 'losers' seem to have on you.

Dating is not easy, not always fun and at worst, downright frustrating, but you have the same chance as any other guy out there and it's your own attitude that's making it worse. The Me-Versus-Women is too easy to be honest, it lets you off the hook, when the fact is if you want to change your dating pattern, you're going to have to drop the attitude and generalisations and start approaching women again. If you're meeting the wrong ones - learn from it - go to different places, change your approach, change your haircut, whatever...just quit the judgements and bitterness and get rid of the chip on your shoulder because we can smell it a mile away.

^^ This is exactly what I wanted to say

James400

James400 wrote: »

The OP's reaction is understandable, what does a guy have to do?

Stop lumping all women into one category and announcing "I've figured out women", maybe?
As beks said, the world doesn't owe him a break, he's not entitled to a girlfriend, and arrogantly calling himself "mr right" and assuming women "don't really want mr right" just because they don't want him...

solovely

+ 1 to Beks101 and Bluewolf.

Sounds like it's your attitude that is running down your luck, not all the shallow, selfish women out there.

RuthieC

I'm not siding with generalisations here, but we women are just as guilty of having the 'all men are b*stards' rants. We all get a little bitter and jaded from time to time. I figure that something hurtful has happened recently for the OP, and like the rest of us when that happens we go 'FFS what am I doing wrong!'. And honestly, fair play to you (OP) for knowing your own worth - it's all too easy to internalise rejection.

As this thread has gone on, I've noticed you (OP) saying that you were being agreeable, being there for them... as if it was an obligation. Would that be right? If so, you're not being yourself. Maybe being yourself, warts and all will stop this becoming a 'but i did everything right' situation, and turn into a 'ah well, we just weren't right for each other'.

Don't give up hoping, just maybe give up the chase. And just let it happen naturally.

ash23

OP, you sound a wee bit lazy to be honest.
In terms of women I mean.

You seem to think that you've done all you need to do, by being good looking and having a job, but as your own post has shown, thats not what women value in a relationship. Personality is key.

It's like you think women should flock to you because you have a job and looks. Like wtf is wrong with an unemployed builder? If he's the nicest guy in the world, why wouldn't a woman stay with him if she loves him? Because he's broke? How shallow do you think women are?

Most of us are about the chemistry, the personality, the way a man treats us (and I don't mean financially).
We're about being comfortable with someone, being fulfilled and happy, having someone enrich our lives.
Now, I don't know you from adam, I can only go on your OP, but the negativity there is draining. And you come across as quite superficial and bitter. And the ego is a bit on the big side. If you can't attract/keep a woman you decide the problem is all women everywhere? Look at the common denominator in your failed relationships. It's you.
I'm not saying you're totally to blame but in fairness, you can't blame an entire gender for your failure to keep a relationship going.
And if you can't be bothered anymore, thats fine too.
But you most definitely won't meet someone if you're sat in a corner blaming all women for your woes.
As for what women in their 30s should want. Well, thats not up to you to decided. All women in their 30s aren't clones of each other. We are all quite unique in our own ways. I know men in their 30s who feel they are far too young to settle down, some who are dying to settle down and (the best kind) the ones who are content with living their lives and open to the idea someone will come into it who make it even better than it already is.

Don't put all women in the same pile. You wouldn't want to be lumped in with all those

a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....

although I'm still bewildered as to what the problem is with a man with children or an unemployed man. Or an extrovert, big loud drinker (once not an alcoholic).

LegacyUser

I think the OP's general message he is trying to get across is that girls will go for guys who they say they wouldn't go for. They won't intentionally go for a 'bastard' but a guy they meet will start out being a good guy, with an air of charm and over confidence. He will probably then turn out to be a 'bastard' and the girl will have got hooked at this stage and will do her best to hold on to him.

Chances are the OP will never turn into a 'bastard' or have these traits.
This leaves the OP and countless others out of the initial running.

SarahG91

hurt__ wrote: »

It's a cruel world out there, girls around my age and well into the 30s should be wanting something steady, reliable and safe (like me!!), they go on about 'mr right' etc. but trust me it's the last thing they want.

Why should a woman compromise her ideals just because she's over 30? You're essentially saying that once a woman reaches that ripe old age, she should just put her hopes and dreams and fantasies aside and settle for the first steady, reliable, safe catch that comes her way.

Without sounding cliched, to me women want and will stay with the following: a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....These to me are the qualities and type of guys women find attractive now.

That's nonsense. I know dozens of women who are with men who are not drug users, sportsmen, wasters, or cheats. Yes, I have friends whose boyfriends are unemployed. But guess what, there are 450,000 unemployed people in this country right now. You may be lucky enough to have your job, but not everybody in the country has been so fortunate.

All of my friends have qualities they find attractive or sexy in their other halves. Even if he has his faults and flaws, there is always some reason why it's him, as opposed to somebody else. I don't know anyone who's with a man simply and only because he's safe and reliable.

shellyboo

hurt__ wrote: »

What does a guy have to do?

He has to meet the person (singular, not one hive-mind of women) who is right for him. And that boils down to pure chance.

You've no more figured out women than I've figured out men who are exactly 6'4... because they're all different. If you're constantly meeting the same type of women who aren't right for you, look elsewhere. You're self-selecting the wrong kind, because the right kind for you is out there somewhere, you just haven't bumped into her yet. Perhaps you're ruling out a certain category of women, or perhaps you're waiting for them to come to you and watching them go off with (to your mind) inferior men instead? Hard to know.

hurt__ wrote: »

I'm not so sure, modern life has made relationships so complex...text messages, facebook (if you're on it, which i'm not)....everyone is walking around paranoid about how they stand with their other half!!

No they're not. I'm not. My boyfriend's not on Facebook, I don't use that as a means of communication with him or anyone, and I'm sure as hell not paranoid about how I stand with him. I KNOW how I stand with him because I'm secure in myself and my relationship and we're both (gasp) grown-ups who are capable of communicating when something is wrong.

I'm 27, by the way.

mood

hurt__ wrote: »

Without sounding cliched, to me women want and will stay with the following: a big loud drinker, a drug user, a bigheaded sportsman, an extrovert, a waster, an a**shole, a married man or a man with children, a guy who is up to his eyes in debt, even an unemployed builder!!....These to me are the qualities and type of guys women find attractive now. I have had first hand experience of this or I have observed from a far. I have been the 'other guy' who has been dumped or finished last. I am not bitter or feeling sorry for myself and lots of good guys will agree with me.

It's not fair!

OP women fall for such men in spite of such thing not because of them. It's often that they fall for the person then later find out they drink too much or whatever. You can't honestly thing girls want to meet someone tall, dark, handsome, drinks too much, married etc!

And OP being an extrovert or unemployed or in debt or having children are not necessarily bad things. For example once a man who has children is not in a relationship already he is single and the majority of people who are unemployed are unemployed through no fault of their own (we are in a major recession remember).

mood

hurt__ wrote: »

There are decent guys out there sitting in on their own every night and weekend cause they have been emotionally hurt by women.

OP the same can be said of women. I'm a single woman but I'm keeping an open mind and get out and meet people. Being bitter or stressing about meeting someone won't help.

beks101 reply is 100%. I totally agree.