Which Metal Pedal?

rgjmce

Okay I don't even know if the pedal i'm looking for exists but not harm asking. Basically I have a metal zone (yawn) and when I first got it, I thought it sounded great but now I hate it. I think it sounds like a ton of arse and want something better. What I want is a pedal which gives me a metal tone for metallica/megadeth etc that type of sound but I would rather it to be overdrive sounding just cause I want to keep the natural tone but I still want that gain that is necessary. The metal zone used to do this sound great for me but not it's just not good enough, it sounds exactly like it is, a sound coming from a box. Again I don't know if what i want exists but I figure someone on here could help me.

Just to round off want a metal pedal that sounds organic.

Squidgy Black

The EHX Metal Muff's are pretty good sounding, preferably the largest one with the boost.

slavetothegrind

i have a goo on me for a suhr riot

this lad got one and seems to like it!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056112192

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQlgSn2D_eU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfX5t854huE

Paolo_M

A valve based metal amp is the answer here. Think 5150s, Dual Recs, boosted JCM800, JMPs etc.etc.

No pedal can ever capture that tone properly.

Boosting a metal valve amp with a simple clean boost (tube screamer) etc. is even better. Think is what most of the big metal bands do, Metallica and Megadeth included, although Chris Broderick is now moving over to the option below.

If you are one a budget (who isn't ) next best best would be a decent amp sim unit like the POD HD 500 into a clean amp.
Chris Broderick uses the AxeFX Ultra which is not really a budget option @ €2k before you even get a power amp and speakers!!

The very worst possible solution will always be a pedal giving the overdrive tone itself. It will always lag well behind.
Pedals can work for rock quite well but I can't think on one single song, band or example of a good sounding metal tone with a pedal into a clean amp.

It's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth none the less, and it could save you a lot of time and wasted energy.

Zombienosh

What he said, digital distortions for the most part are ****e, you want a valve distortion pedal. Black star just brought a load between 100-200 euro, I got the Dist-x filth, its metal as ****. Mesa have some too worth checkin out.

either one of them or just get a tasty valve amp.

boss distortions are awful.

rcaz

Zombienosh wrote: »

What he said, digital distortions for the most part are ****e, you want a valve distortion pedal. Black star just brought a load between 100-200 euro, I got the Dist-x filth, its metal as ****. Mesa have some too worth checkin out.

either one of them or just get a tasty valve amp.

boss distortions are awful.

Who said anything about digital distortion? And some Boss distortions are awful.

I can get sorta metally tones out of my RAT with my Telecaster with a Hot Rails bridge pickup, they can be found second hand at good prices a lot, would you be able to have a go of one of those? Assuming the right kind of amp isn't a possibility of course...

rgjmce

Paolo_M wrote: »

A valve based metal amp is the answer here. Think 5150s, Dual Recs, boosted JCM800, JMPs etc.etc.

I actually have a JCM 2000 TSL and it's brilliant for it, although I can't always bring it with me and for small gigs it can be too big. I'd happy with a pedal that could say nearly get their but I know it won't ever really come close. Oh and also have a Boss Super Overdrive for a boost.

Grolschevik

rgjmce wrote: »

I actually have a JCM 2000 TSL and it's brilliant for it, although I can't always bring it with me and for small gigs it can be too big. I'd happy with a pedal that could say nearly get their but I know it won't ever really come close. Oh and also have a Boss Super Overdrive for a boost.

I'm probably in a minority of one here, but I like the Marshall Guvnor (GV2). It sounds very Marshally, I think. Wide range of EQ options on it, too. Only about €50 new. I started using one instead of an old Boss HM pedal...

I haven't tried the higher gain Marshall Jackhammer, but I have heard mixed reports about them.

feylya

Leaving aside the argument of digital vs valve vs using a wet jam jar, I've always been a fan of the Line 6 Uber Metal for heavier tones. Don't know if they're still available but I'm sure there's one or two over on Adverts

rgjmce

not really a fan of line 6 stuff in general, sounds too generic to me. Might try out one of them marshall pedals though

bad2dabone

the MXR Fullbore Metal gets good reviews - dont have one myself however!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9acls6zx50c

Grolschevik

bad2dabone wrote: »

the MXR Fullbore Metal gets good reviews - dont have one myself however!

I have one of those. Some good sounds, but a bit too sizzly/tinny for me, if you know what I mean. I don't use it.

MarkDPC

Paolo_M wrote: »

A valve based metal amp is the answer here. Think 5150s, Dual Recs, boosted JCM800, JMPs etc.etc.

No pedal can ever capture that tone properly.

Defo using an amp is the way to go. Look at the tiny terror ( orange) they are amazing, small and will blow the socks off you when you crank it up... Pedals have such a digital and forced sound,

CianRyan

MarkDPC wrote: »

Defo using an amp is the way to go. Look at the tiny terror ( orange) they are amazing, small and will blow the socks off you when you crank it up... Pedals have such a digital and forced sound,

Guitarist in my old band had a Tiny Terrorr and despite what people may tell you, it can not play metal.
Rock, hardrock and punk yes but no way can it be used for real metal.

Is the size of the head the problem or the power?
If it's the power, consider switching to the likes of a Blackstar series One. This has a "power knob" that gives you the full range between either 100w-1w or 200w-2w... I think.
If it's the size, suck it up and stay metal.

Or consider a smaller cab, most of the time, a 1X12 will be enough, and I say this with experience of play 600+ people venues.

Demeyes

I'm a big fan of getting most if not all your overdrive from the amp. You just can't get a great metal sound straight from a pedal into a clean channel. You can get a good metal tone using an OD or boost pedal into an already distorted sound. I've got a Boss SD-1, DS-1, Marshall guvnor, tubescreamer, big muff and a Snarling dog od. My favours are the sd-1, guvnor and the tubescreamer but they only really do the trick as boosts.
Also you'd be surprised at how low gain you can go and still get a good metal tone, especially when you're turning up the volume.

Ravelleman

That second Suhr Riot clip sounds absolutely awful, I'm not going to lie.

I agree with Paolo M, you'd be better off saving for some kind of established metal amp like a Dual Rec or a Fireball rather than looking for a pedal. On a more shallow note, they're also way cooler.

rcaz

MarkDPC wrote: »

Defo using an amp is the way to go. Look at the tiny terror ( orange) they are amazing, small and will blow the socks off you when you crank it up... Pedals have such a digital and forced sound,

So far only two of the pedals mentioned in the thread have had any digital parts to them, and even then I'd say they had an analogue distortion circuit. What exactly is a 'forced' sound anyway?

Ravelleman

MarkDPC wrote: »

Defo using an amp is the way to go. Look at the tiny terror ( orange) they are amazing, small and will blow the socks off you when you crank it up... Pedals have such a digital and forced sound,

I don't think the Tiny Terror will get you very far into the realm of crushing brutalz.

boycey

There is the option of trying an EQ pedal to shape your tone. It just might give your existing set up the kick in the balls you're looking for. The MXR KFK pedal would be an obvious 'metal' choice, I'm sure there's plenty of good ones out there.

As an aside, some of the best metal tones I've heard (in the flesh I might add, not recorded and sculpted by a mixing desk ninja) have been from solid state amps. Former poster Doc J's 2x12 Ampeg springs to mind. Randall would be another obvious choice.

Seziertisch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toagqd0508A&feature=relmfu

This could also be a good choice.

Doc_Savage

i'm gonna say we need more info!

are you gonna be gigging? cause if you are then i'd say look out for a second hand tube combo and then pick up a good booster pedal... like a tubescreamer and drive the crap out of the amp!
you won't cure the tone thing with one pedal though! if you want to totally change your sound with one pedal then it'll always sound like a "noise from a box"? your playing and attack will give it more organic sound than any pedal will!

rgjmce

Doc_Savage wrote: »

i'm gonna say we need more info!

are you gonna be gigging? cause if you are then i'd say look out for a second hand tube combo and then pick up a good booster pedal... like a tubescreamer and drive the crap out of the amp!
you won't cure the tone thing with one pedal though! if you want to totally change your sound with one pedal then it'll always sound like a "noise from a box"? your playing and attack will give it more organic sound than any pedal will!

Already said before I have a tube amp and a boost (boss super od) and when it comes to boosts you don't need an expensive one anyway. It's just if i'm not using my amp for a gig, would be handy to have a decent distortion pedal.

Doc_Savage

is tone that important when you're not gigging?
maybe an amp modeler and headphones?

rgjmce

Doc_Savage wrote: »

is tone that important when you're not gigging?
maybe an amp modeler and headphones?

I have the tone when i'm at home, i want it for gigging (when i don't bring amp)

Doc_Savage

alright i'll level with you here.... if you want an organic (from this i'm gleaning responsive and dynamic) sounding pedal not just a one trick pony... you want a medium output humbucker (anything not weak and not active will suffice) shag all and i mean as little as possible electronics in the line (tone pots tuners volume pedals etc.) and an old style distortion. Like a big muff or my personal favourite, an MXR distortion plus. oh and good quality leads!

i can get everything from dave gilmore bell tones... to black album cutting distortion... just by changing the volume on the guitar and changing the way you play....

don't be too tempted by the very high gain pedals, i find they only ever do 2 things... wasp in a jam jar or processed gain!

just my own philosophy!:)

rcaz

Doc_Savage wrote: »

alright i'll level with you here.... if you want an organic (from this i'm gleaning responsive and dynamic) sounding pedal not just a one trick pony... you want a medium output humbucker (anything not weak and not active will suffice) shag all and i mean as little as possible electronics in the line (tone pots tuners volume pedals etc.) and an old style distortion. Like a big muff or my personal favourite, an MXR distortion plus. oh and good quality leads!

i can get everything from dave gilmore bell tones... to black album cutting distortion... just by changing the volume on the guitar and changing the way you play....

don't be too tempted by the very high gain pedals, i find they only ever do 2 things... wasp in a jam jar or processed gain!

just my own philosophy!:)

Great post, I particularly like the way about changing the way you play... I know a few guys who always wanted to 'sound heavier' and equated that with turning the gain up or playing a particular kind of pointy guitar... Sure the right guitar for the job is a good starting point, but 90% of your tone is in your fingers... Playing aggressively is the biggest thing to do to sound aggressive, playing calmly = sounding calm etc... Not that this has much to do with the OP, just going off on a tangent...

I don't know if it's worth worrying a lot about tone for live shows... You mightn't be playing through your own amp, your amp's volume will be dictated by the sound man (and if you don't let the sound man control the variables here, you'll sound terrible anyway, regardless of how nice your tone is), your amp will be mic'd, that mic will have its own preamp, it'll be compressed and equalised, there's so much more going on live than in your practice room that I don't reckon it's worth bothering about.

For playing live, I just look for a decent clean tone on the amp and my pedal board does the rest. So yeah you need a pedal that can get you the tone you want at gigs because everything other than your guitar and your pedals will be out of your control. But for the tone you're looking for, a pedal isn't enough.... I dunno, it's just a big list of compromises, up to you from there

rgjmce

Well to be honest. I'm not the type of person who worries about tone too much, I do most with my fingers anyway, working on picking technique etc.

I just hate stuff that sound crass and sometimes no matter how good your tone playing wise, sometimes if the sound is bad, it's bad nothing i'm gonna play like is gonna change that.

Demeyes

I'd say if it's gigging you're worried about then still get a decent enough head. Stuff like the Laney GH50L is not expensive and will have you sorted for gigs. I've gigged a nice bit and it's pretty much the norm to bring your own head, sharing heads is sometimes ok but a lot of guys don't like. It'll work out better for you anyway if you are playing through your own amp, you'll have a tone you know sounds good instead of trying to work around an amp your unfamiliar with.

Paolo_M

rgjmce wrote: »

Well to be honest. I'm not the type of person who worries about tone too much, I do most with my fingers anyway, working on picking technique etc.

I just hate stuff that sound crass and sometimes no matter how good your tone playing wise, sometimes if the sound is bad, it's bad nothing i'm gonna play like is gonna change that.

In that case then a pedal is probably ok.
What amp do you use?
Often a distortion pedal can be made sound pretty good by putting a graphic EQ afterwards to tame some of the more metalic or buzzy frequencies and really shape the tone the way you want.
I use the MXR 108 and really like it. The Boss graphic is supposed to be pretty good too.
Often it's not a case of finding the ultimate distortion pedal but shaping the one you have they way you want.
Does anyone you know have a graphic EQ so you could try it out?

I'd still maintain that convincing metal toanz can only be gotten with a 100 Watt valve amp designed for the job.
The power is needed for defined, punchy low end, not for the volume.

Grolschevik

Demeyes wrote: »

I'd say if it's gigging you're worried about then still get a decent enough head. Stuff like the Laney GH50L is not expensive and will have you sorted for gigs. I've gigged a nice bit and it's pretty much the norm to bring your own head, sharing heads is sometimes ok but a lot of guys don't like. It'll work out better for you anyway if you are playing through your own amp, you'll have a tone you know sounds good instead of trying to work around an amp your unfamiliar with.

Paolo_M wrote: »

In that case then a pedal is probably ok.
What amp do you use?
Often a distortion pedal can be made sound pretty good by putting a graphic EQ afterwards to tame some of the more metalic or buzzy frequencies and really shape the tone the way you want.
I use the MXR 108 and really like it. The Boss graphic is supposed to be pretty good too.
Often it's not a case of finding the ultimate distortion pedal but shaping the one you have they way you want.
Does anyone you know have a graphic EQ so you could try it out?

I'd still maintain that convincing metal toanz can only be gotten with a 100 Watt valve amp designed for the job.
The power is needed for defined, punchy low end, not for the volume.

Lads, he's already said he has a Marshall TSL and a booster. And that he quite likes the metal tones he can get out of it. What he wants is recommendations for a pedal for when he doesn't bring his own amp to a gig. That is, something that will provide a decent metal sound even if he happens to end up playing through an AC30 or a Fender Frontman...

Paolo_M

Grolschevik wrote: »

Lads, he's already said he has a Marshall TSL and a booster. And that he quite likes the metal tones he can get out of it. What he wants is recommendations for a pedal for when he doesn't bring his own amp to a gig. That is, something that will provide a decent metal sound even if he happens to end up playing through an AC30 or a Fender Frontman...

Hence my suggestion of looking at an EQ pedal (the MXR108 and Boss GE7 were my suggestions) in conjunction with the OD/distortion pedal he chooses.

Grolschevik

Paolo_M wrote: »

Hence my suggestion of looking at an EQ pedal (the MXR108 and Boss GE7 were my suggestions) in conjunction with the OD/distortion pedal he chooses.

Oops! Multiquote mischief...

damonjewel

Doc_Savage wrote: »

wasp in a jam jar

Ha ha I often thought that it sounded familiar but couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks, this has made my day!

Demeyes

Grolschevik wrote: »

Lads, he's already said he has a Marshall TSL and a booster. And that he quite likes the metal tones he can get out of it. What he wants is recommendations for a pedal for when he doesn't bring his own amp to a gig. That is, something that will provide a decent metal sound even if he happens to end up playing through an AC30 or a Fender Frontman...

The point I was kinda trying to make was that he should always bring his amp to gigs. You should always try and present yourself as well as you can and that's not going to happen when you have borrow other peoples rigs for a set. I'd consider someone who regularly turns upto gigs without their own head a bit unprofessional too. Any metal gig I've played I've been expected to show up with my own stuff. Sure things go wrong and sometimes people need to borrow something for a set but no one should make a habit of it.

If you're dead set on getting something that you can use, pick up a decent modelling preamp like the Digitech Gsp1101, pod HD or Boss GT pedal. If you get one of these and learn how to use it properly you should have a flexible base to get you a really good tone regardless of what you play into. You can run into effects loop returns, inputs of amps or even direct and tweak till you're happy. The downside is you'll ideally need a while to tweak it for each gig. They'd be more suitable than a single distortion pedal, because the pedal will react very differently depending on the amp you put it in front of.

Doc_Savage

All of the above is perfectly reasonable and i agree with everything you said.
But the part about taking an amp with you, i'm speculating now but if you are in a band that regularly plays support then you may not get the opportunity to bring your own amp. Especially in Dublin.

Am i close to the mark on this one OP?

slavetothegrind

i suppose the real answer is buy an axefx ultra:p

wouldn't i like to!!!!

Paolo_M

slavetothegrind wrote: »

i suppose the real answer is buy an axefx ultra:p

wouldn't i like to!!!!

Here's a thought;

1. Instrument board collectively buys AxeFX Ultra.
2. Default on payments and hand it over to NAMA.
3. Buy back from NAMA for much less that they paid for it.
4. ?????? Paolo_M keeps it of course!!!
5. Profit.

rgjmce

Demeyes wrote: »

The point I was kinda trying to make was that he should always bring his amp to gigs. You should always try and present yourself as well as you can and that's not going to happen when you have borrow other peoples rigs for a set. I'd consider someone who regularly turns upto gigs without their own head a bit unprofessional too.

It's only for open mic nights with backing tracks, nothing serious ffs lol

Demeyes

rgjmce wrote: »

It's only for open mic nights with backing tracks, nothing serious ffs lol

Well, I wouldn't normally have pictured metal at an open mic night. I thought you were referring to normal gigs with a full band line up, you'd be surprised what notions people have relating to what they should bring to gigs. If it's just for a few songs along with a track then I'd still recommend a modeller.

rgjmce

Demeyes wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't normally have pictured metal at an open mic night. I thought you were referring to normal gigs with a full band line up, you'd be surprised what notions people have relating to what they should bring to gigs. If it's just for a few songs along with a track then I'd still recommend a modeller.

m'kay noted

CianRyan

Have to say, if you don't want to drag a heavy tube amp around this could be alright.
http://www.adverts.ie/guitar-bass/line-6-spider-iii-150w-combo/303365