VCR on way out, replacement suggestions?

2 Wheels Good

Hi, my parents vcr is on the way out and they like to record the odd show.
We have free to air and terrestrial so sky+ isn't an option. As we'll be getting saorview sooner rather than later any suggestions on what way to go with replacing the vcr?
I've been trying to think if I should get a dvd/hd recorder or wait and see what options are with saorview. Thanks

watty

Terrestrial: "Freeview HD" PVR/HDR (works with Saorview)
Satellite: "Freesat HD" PVR/HDR (models with Diseqc may work with Saorsat after May 2011 as well as Freesat).

A Standalone recorder is pointless.

There are a few expensive models with BluRay recorder/Player built in (will play DVDs and CDs too).

tmcw

If it was my cheap-ass, I'd be looking at getting another vcr. People are throwing perfectly good machines away, or offering them for nothing on adverts or freetrade sites. If you could get yourself a nice JVC with SVHS, it'll probably outlive most TVs made today. If your current vcr is chewing tapes, it probably just needs a good clean, and I don't mean with a cleaning tape; find a good cleaning guide online, and learn how to do the job properly, there's a huge difference, and it makes a big difference.

Personally, unless I needed to replace equipment now, like a FTA receiver or DVD player, I would stick with the vcr solution. For example, if Saorsat takes off, I may look at getting a HD sat receiver with PVR, but it may be overkill for me right now, as I can still get good analogue or DVB-T through a cheap-ass USB stick on the HTPC, have a perfectly fine FTA sat receiver, and I don't need a new HD TV.

But then I'm a cheap-ass...

watty

I'd only use a VHS to play existing VHS. Quality is criminal for recording... I still have 12 unopened S-VHS blank tapes

rlogue

A HTPC is the best possible route at the moment, but it's not an option for the technically faint hearted.

I've got the Irish terrestrials and Freesat working nicely on mine but to be honest it's a project that suits folks who don't mind spending the time getting their setup right.

Mr. Rabbit

Can you still get blank VHS Tapes ? Don't think I've seen them in the shops for quite some time now.

Personally, I'd be looking at a DVD recorder, or DVD recorder with a hard drive. Are DVD recoders with Freeview/Saorview ???? that are sold in the ROI MPeg 4 compatable ?

watty

Really forget about a DVD recorder unless you want a kludge in SD only via SCART.

A DVD recorder "might" exist with "Freeview HD", but the DVDs wouldn't play on anything else and might not have the storage for a longer HD program. A "Freeview" DVD recorder will not work.

Recorders with Digital Tuners record an exact copy of the the Transmission. Freeview HD is MPEG4 and HD. Saorview is SD or HD and only MPEG.

DVDs can't play HD at all. The spec doesn't include MPEG4, some that do play MPEG are referring to to PC files with DivX, not H.264 AVC in DVD format.

You need a built in BluRay recorder if you want more than Hard Drive recordings.

Do not buy a non-HD "Freeview" only recorder of any kind. Only "Freeview HD" or "Freeview+ HD" recorders will work on Saorview, no "Freeview" recorders or Set-boxes at all, unlike TVs.

Generic MPEG4 HD Set-boxes with USB port for recording are unreliable for recording, unlikely to support series link and don't do MHEG5. A proper PVR/Recorder for Saorview is Saorview certified (there are none yet), or next best is a "Freeview HD" recorder. I don't know if the "Freeview HD" will support the Series Link feature when it's added.

Mr. Rabbit

A DVD recorder "might" exist with "Freeview HD", but the DVDs wouldn't play on anything else and might not have the storage for a longer HD program. A "Freeview" DVD recorder will not work

Which is why I was wondering whether DVD/DVD hard drive recorders sold in the ROI, that are the equivelent of Freeview ones up here, are MPeg 4 campatable (i.e. Saorview compatable), but not necessarily Freeview HD ones ?

In other words, do Freeview HD/DVD recorders sold in the ROI conform to the ROI's broadcasting standards ? Or, to put it another way, are there Saorview equivelent standatd definitian models (e.g. Sony, Panasonic etc) of UK DVD/DVD hard drive recorders for sale in the likes of Currys or Argos in the ROI ?

Freeview HD DVD/hard drive recorders are still very expensive. Can you even record Freeview HD ? I thought there were still copyright issues over recording HD programmes on a recordable Blu Ray disc ? Can you buy blank recordable Blu Ray discs ?

watty

There *ARE* "Freeview HD" PVRs. At least one has Recordable Bluray.

The laws about recording HD from broadcast are no different to SD or Analogue.

No "fully integrated" Digital tuner DVD recorder can produce compatible DVDs from Saorview or "Freeview HD". It's not possible. Only by recoding to SD Only at lower quality, later. Not a real recording solution.

Absolutely NO "Freeview" only DVD recorder works at all with Saorview. Nor ever will. No MPEG4.

The only compatible method for DVD recording is a standalone box connected to a real set-box via SCART. Totally daft solution.

Yes you can record "Freeview HD" and Saorview, even in HD.

There are ZERO actual Saorview recorders on the market.

There are some generic MPEG4 + HD tuners with built in HDD or external USB drive. They will Record Saorview channels, including HD. Not recommended.

There are LOADs of "Freeview HD" set-boxes that are also HDD recorders. Replay is is live quality, including HD. These all "work" on Saorview. At least one model has BluRay record /Playback.

Making real DVDs from Saorview or "Freeview HD" signal directly isn't possible at all, without re-encoding at lower quality and down-scale of HD. The signal has to be decoded from MPEG4, down converted from HD to SD, if HD, and re-encoded in MPEG2. This is a great loss of quality, especially if in real time. There may be one or two "cheap junk" "Freeview HD" setbox that can do this. They are a waste of money compared to a Humax Fox T2 "Freeview+ HD" HDR. http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/product_stb_terrestrial_hdrfoxt2.aspx (works on Saorview).

Forget about DVDs.

BluRay players will play DVDs and CDs, but don't have SCART. Only HDMI.

A "Freeview HD" or "Freeview+ HD" PVR with Hard Drive gives playback equivalent to Live. It will have SCART for non-HDTV older TVs. If you want discs the cheapest route is PC with BluRay recorder, BD authoring SW and USB Dual DTT Tuner stick. If you want "consumer friendly" go for "Freeview+ HD" PVR with Hard Drive and built in BluRay recorder/Player.

Forget about DVD recorders, except to archive VHS tapes or Camcorder easily. Or maybe for "archive" on Sky or UPC PVR (though Macrovision may prevent recording).

The BBC does want to add "DRM" to "Freeview HD" and especially "Freesat HD". A PC based recorder will ignore it, but then may not have the 7 day EPG on Freeview/Freesat. Saorview and Saorsat are a little less encumbered in EPG.

Mr. Rabbit

Absolutely NO "Freeview" only DVD recorder works at all with Saorview. Nor ever will. No MPEG4.

That's what I wondered Watty i.e. if the likes of Panasonic and Sony made models specifically for the ROI market (rather than the UK).

Obviously not then although, I'm sure I've come across both Sony and LG models that had MPeg 4

watty

There are some DVD players and Recorders that support MPEG4 playback. Nothing to do with MPEG4 H.264 AVC L3 (SD) or L4 (HD) Broadcast (reception from Aerial or Dish). They are referring to playback of PC files on a DVD as data, not DVD Video, These MPEG4 files are stuff like DivX, not H.264 AVC usually. There is no MPEG4 in DVD spec. Some new models may create PC files in MPEG4 encoding such as DivX or H.263 from Recording via SCART, or analogue tuner to save space. They are not creating DVD video discs, nor recording live MPEG4 transmissions directly.

So forget about DVD in relation to Saorview or Freeview HD, unless you want to re-encode, have no HD and have lower quality.

Jpmarn

watty wrote: »

There are some DVD players and Recorders that support MPEG4 playback. Nothing to do with MPEG4 H.264 AVC L3 (SD) or L4 (HD) Broadcast (reception from Aerial or Dish). They are referring to playback of PC files on a DVD as data, not DVD Video, These MPEG4 files are stuff like DivX, not H.264 AVC usually. There is no MPEG4 in DVD spec. Some new models may create PC files in MPEG4 encoding such as DivX or H.263 from Recording via SCART, or analogue tuner to save space. They are not creating DVD video discs, nor recording live MPEG4 transmissions directly.

So forget about DVD in relation to Saorview or Freeview HD, unless you want to re-encode, have no HD and have lower quality.

There is a special DVD format called AVHD. This format can be used on PCs. It is a useful format after editing HD video on a PC without a Blue ray recorder. It won't play on an ordinary DVD player. It can only fit an hour of HD quality video. Some if not all BD players should be able play this AVHD DVD format.

watty

Pointless for Off air recording and essentially obsolete now with lower cost BD recorders. And as you remark, it's an ad-hoc format.