Car died on motorway

macgabhs

My Ford Focus 1.6 petrol died today while on the motorway. The timing belt going was my initial fear but thankfully the belts ok. Once I was happy that the belt was not broke I tried to start her up but despite the starter turning the engine wouldn't start. Roadside assistance suggested that the alternator or fuel pump might be gone. I'm expecting a phone call tomorrow with a diagnosis but just wanted to get an opinion from some of the experts on here. So my question is given the symptoms what are the likely culprits and what should I expect to pay for a repair? Thanks for any help.

Abelloid

Seriously though, more information is needed.

Owen

Main Motors forum would also be better.

macgabhs

Sorry what do you need to know? I was driving at 120 on the motorway when the engine cut out. The engine light lit up. I coasted to a stop had a look under the bonnet to see if any of the belts had snapped none had so I tried to start it. The engine turned over but would not start. All the electrics were still working and I've noticed no problems with them over the past while. I've had no symptoms like lack of acceleration or anything recently. Seemed a bit heavy on fuel over the last while but that's probably just the price of petrol going up!

LookBehindYou

Could be fuel pump or COILPACK more likely (it gets very hot and stops working, but may work when cold again).

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Ford-Fiesta-Focus-Fusion-Spark-Plug-Ignition-Coil-Pack_W0QQitemZ360339870668QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SILF:IE:105

macgabhs

Sorry mods feel free to move this if it's in the wrong place.

macgabhs

The coilpack was replaced about a year ago. Symptom there was a lack of acceleration.

the_syco

macgabhs wrote: »

All the electrics were still working

How do you know this, and how old is the car? I ask as I know someone who had a newish car die on them due to the electronics in the engine dying. Similar thing to you: driving along, engine stopped, all lights came on.

macgabhs

Hopefully that has not happened me! What I meant was the radio, electric windows, starter motor etc were still working so the battery seemed good. My understanding of an alternator is that it charges the battery. Is this correct? I assumed that if the battery was not dead or dying then the alternator might be ok?

-Chris-

Thread moved from DIY to main Motors forum as there's no element of DIY here.

Mr Magners

OP, did that happen on the M7 yesterday evening at 4 o'clockish?

I saw a huge cloud of white smoke ahead of me on that road yesterday and a maroon Focus drifting in to the hard shoulder.

Didn't look too good from where I was sitting. Hope you get it sorted without too much bother.

stevenmu

Would you know where to look for the timing belt? It's usually not very visible.

When you turned it over did it seem to turn over as normal, or did it turn over quicker as if it was spinning more freely? If the latter it could very well be the timing belt gone.

smokie2008

macgabhs wrote: »

My Ford Focus 1.6 petrol died today while on the motorway. The timing belt going was my initial fear but thankfully the belts ok. Once I was happy that the belt was not broke I tried to start her up but despite the starter turning the engine wouldn't start. Roadside assistance suggested that the alternator or fuel pump might be gone. I'm expecting a phone call tomorrow with a diagnosis but just wanted to get an opinion from some of the experts on here. So my question is given the symptoms what are the likely culprits and what should I expect to pay for a repair? Thanks for any help.

Absolute Cowboys if they called out and couldn't tell the difference between a failed alternator or fuel pump.

Its definitely not your alternator or your car would have slowly died and the starter would not be turning when you turned the key. It could be your fuel pump.

The speed sensors give trouble in those two.

Best to just wait for the call tbh as not really enough information and people will be just throwing any suggestion at you.

Mar4ix

on fords sometimes immobiliser goin off.. ... even if alternator would be gone, car would go with red batery on dash, ... i'd say its fuel pump, ignition coil, immobiliser or one of sensors. I dont know much about ford, but my nissan died on m50 once... and that was camshaft angle senssor ... wich reads exhaust camshaft possition, and ecu from that readings set spark in coils.

yknaa

Something very similiar happened to me and it turned out to be the 3rd fuel injector. I stated it again but it cut out a few more times on my route home. Scary. I got the car serviced and the injector seems to be oke now but I expect I will need it replacing before long.
Actually I wonder if I will be more damage to the car if this happens again? Is it safe enough to continue on a journey if this happens? It is an 08 diesel Focus.

Ev84

My alternator went last year while i was stopped up at traffic lights. I was the first one at the lights too and everyone started beeping for me to drive on but it just wouldn't start. The starter was turning but the engine wouldn't start. radio was still fine. On my approach to the lights the car was driving really sluggish, maybe a 1/4 of the power and when i came to a stop it just died.

I pushed it to the side of road after some embarrassment and rang Quinn Direct. They sent a tow truck a while later and the driver suggested it might be the fuel pump and towed it to my mechanic. Turns out the it was the alternator coil as Lookbehindyou stated... There are many other things it could be though.

Ev84

smokie2008 wrote: »

Its definitely not your alternator or the starter would not be turning when you turned the key.

Not true. happened me and starter turned fine.

Edit- Emphasis on definitely.

Mar4ix

Ev84 wrote: »

Not true. happened me and starter turned fine.

It is possible, there is lot electronic involved... ecu can't see alternator charging, an cut out engine. By the simply car , where is not much electronics, car would drive on battery charge(same time red battery would light up on dash), until it will be flat.

macgabhs

Mr Magners wrote: »

OP, did that happen on the M7 yesterday evening at 4 o'clockish?

I saw a huge cloud of white smoke ahead of me on that road yesterday and a maroon Focus drifting in to the hard shoulder.

Didn't look too good from where I was sitting. Hope you get it sorted without too much bother.

It was around 4 o clock and I do have a maroon focus but it was the M4! Either it was somebody else in some crazy coincidence or you mean the M4 in which case it was me. Didn't notice the white smoke myself but I defintely drifted to the hard shoulder - could it have been the dust kicking up from the gravel in the hard shoulder?

@stevenmu - I was guessing but I could see a belt in to the left of the engine plus the alternator belt both seemed ok so I took my chances that it wasn't the timing belt and tried to start the car. There was no whirring just sounded like the normal startup noise without the engine firing. The roadside assist guy - who may be a cowboy! - agreed that it wasn't the belt. Fingers crossed we were both right on that one.

Thanks for all the replys - I'll just wait on the call from the garage and see what the story is. Just hoping it's nothing too major I could really do without having to buy a new car at the moment!

Mar4ix

macgabhs - let us know where was a problem... good to know for experiance .

Mr Magners

macgabhs wrote: »

It was around 4 o clock and I do have a maroon focus but it was the M4! Either it was somebody else in some crazy coincidence or you mean the M4 in which case it was me.

It's a crazy conicidence so, it was defo the M7 yesterday evening @4ish just after the motorway begins near the Naas exit/entry, a maroon focus h/back and a huge cloud of smoke.

Weird




Twilight Zone music:eek:

smokie2008

Ev84 wrote: »

Not true. happened me and starter turned fine.

Ev84 wrote: »

My alternator went last year while i was stopped up at traffic lights. I was the first one at the lights too and everyone started beeping for me to drive on but it just wouldn't start. The starter was turning but the engine wouldn't start. radio was still fine. On my approach to the lights the car was driving really sluggish, maybe a 1/4 of the power and when i came to a stop it just died.

I pushed it to the side of road after some embarrassment and rang Quinn Direct. They sent a tow truck a while later and the driver suggested it might be the fuel pump and towed it to my mechanic. Turns out it was the alternator coil as Lookbehindyou stated... There are many other things it could be though.

Its 100 percent true.

And theres no such thing as an "alternator coil"

If your alternator goes on a focus the the red battery light will come on and the car will drive fine on the battery power..... when the battery runs out of power the car will slowly stop and there certainly wouldn't be even nearly enough power in the battery at that stage to turn the starting motor.

davidd24

Id put my money on fuel pump.
done three this week.Pain in the ass to do on them.
whole tank has to be dropped...

MrDerp

smokie2008 wrote: »

If your alternator goes on a focus the the red battery light will come on and the car will drive fine on the battery power..... when the battery runs out of power the car will slowly stop and there certainly wouldn't be even nearly enough power in the battery at that stage to turn the starting motor.

Yep, I can vouch for this. I've had my alternator replaced

Ev84

smokie2008 wrote: »

theres no such thing as an "alternator coil"

Of course there is. What are you on about?

Mar4ix

Ev84 wrote: »

Of course there is. What are you on about?

agree.. there is coils in alternator. Actually possible fix it.. i was doing myself on mazda. some soldering work.

kazul

I'm assuming you didn't just run out of fuel?
Could be something very simple but almost impossible to diagnose in this way with so little info/detail.

macgabhs

Just heard back. Timing belt snapped. One word for this - balls!

Ev84

macgabhs wrote: »

Just heard back. Timing belt snapped. One word for this - balls!

Sorry to hear that buddy. bad one.

@smokie2008, Was thinking about it all morning and remembered it was my distributor coil that packed in and not the alternator coil. sorry.

Mr Benevolent

macgabhs wrote: »

Just heard back. Timing belt snapped. One word for this - balls!

Ouch. An expensive mess. When was it last changed?

Mar4ix

google for these engines.. there is some engines which cant be damaged when timebelt snapped. look in forums.

shamwari

It is an interference engine in these, meaning belt failure will valve damage. I wouldn't panic just yet because it might only be two valves gone and it might not be horrifically expensive to fix

macgabhs

The garage where the car was towed to quoted me €1200 just to open up the engine and check how much damage has been done!! That seemed very pricey to me. I'm collecting it tomorrow on the trailer and will bring it to a trusted mechanic for a second opinion. If it will cost €1200 to just assess the damage it's hardly worth the outlay. Out of interest if I don't get this repaired and have a broken car to get rid of where is the best place to try and get a few quid for it - will I get any thing for it??

It's my own fault the belt has been due a change for the last while and I just never got around to it. Lesson learned.

Mar4ix

No point open engine.. shop around scrapyards for used engine .... speek to your mechanic how much would be engine swap + used engine. I would say used engine would cost around 400-600 euro .... and labor would be around 250 - 300 euro. You would be sorted under 1 k euro. Job would be done max 1 day... (i've done some before)... if engine exately same, no need modification or adaptation. + new belt oil and filters. Let us know how you there.

macgabhs

That was a quick post edit there!! To be honest your first response is pretty close to mine. The car is '03 so scrappage might not be an option although Renault are doing scrappage on anything 8 years or older so I might give them a call. Had a look on carzone a working version of mine is going for about €4k so I presume I'd be lucky to get anything for a broken version.

Mar4ix

macgabhs wrote: »

That was a quick post edit there!! To be honest your first response is pretty close to mine. The car is '03 so scrappage might not be an option although Renault are doing scrappage on anything 8 years or older so I might give them a call. Had a look on carzone a working version of mine is going for about €4k so I presume I'd be lucky to get anything for a broken version.

wouldn't go for renault.. never liked :cool: .. depend how long you want drive ... 2 - 3 years max.. then change car.. you never asked why renault scenic 05.. 1.5 tdi cost around 4 grands ?? id say there is reason. keep your ford, get engine swap, and enjoy it for another few years.

macgabhs

thanks for all the replys folks I'll keep looking into getting a repair for now and see how things go.

ZENER

My mechanic told me to look for a new engine when my 1990 Prelude snapped a timing belt last year on the M50. The rebuild company said it's an interference engine "but we've seen them survive a snapped belt !" I replaced the belt ( 70 euro including crank shaft pulley tool) and it worked and is still working 5K on !! Once the belt has snapped turning over the engine can't move the valves so there's a good chanced they haven't impacted with the pistons despite repeatedly turning the engine over !

Could be worth the price of a belt you know !!

Ken

macgabhs

Hmm I'll keep an open mind but based on the experience of friends if mine I'd say you were the exception rather than the rule!

@ev84 yeah it was your post from earlier I was talking about. It disappeared fast!!

Ev84

I thought so. I gave my first opinion based on work done for me a few years back where i needed the head gasket replaced. Then i edited it as i remembered some work my dad needed done also to his ford escort after it over-heated which was way more expensive. He needed the head milled though as the it was warped from the heat. This was a good few years back too. Both of us had old cars... Plenty of room in the engine bay and less awkward to work on.

I then deleted my post altogether as i don't feel i'm qualified/informed enough to be offering you advice on your situation. I have no recent experience so my estimates and prices were probably well off compared to today. Instead of helping i may have been misleading you so i just left it off for someone else to advise you, someone more "in the know" say.

Anyway, let us know how you get on and best of luck whatever you choose to do. Hopefully for your sake you make the right (less costly) choice. Take care.

David09

Pm sent.

lomb

Stick it on donedeal and youl get 2k for it easy, or what I would do and have done is ring up mullingar auto dismantler, ask them for an engine, and if they have one ask them what the name of the mechanic is nearby who fits them(cant remember his name). Tow the car to the mechanic and go walkies to the dismantler, pay them for the engine and delivery a half mile down the road and let them do the rest, cost me 150 for the engine and 350 for the labour in old punts, id say youd get away less than 1k today. Make sure you buy a new belt, timing belt kit,water pump, coolant, oil, filter and give them to him before he does it.