Sky + and Landlord dish removal...Advice needed.

Lord Trollington

Landlord contacted me recently and told me that I need to take down my Sky Dish.

Its a 2 story apartment block with 3 bed apartment upstairs and 2 bed on ground floor.

I'm on ground floor and my dish needs to be on the upstairs wall.
All the other ground floor apartments have their dish on the upstairs wall, in fact next doors ground floor apartment have their dish on the upstairs wall next door to me. There are 3 dishes on 1 wall.

Anyhow landlord rang me, says I need to take it down. I think he has new tenants going upstairs. But I see all the other dishes are still up and have had no movement on them.

What should I do. UPC in the area is non exsistant, only offer Digital, no digital +, broadband or home phone packages.
I'd have no problem with UPC Digital + if i could get it.

My partner and I work so we like to record on sky + and watch back.

Any idea's?

Paulw

You have two choices -

1) serve notice and find somewhere else to live
2) Take down the dish.

Lord Trollington

Paulw wrote: »

You have two choices -

1) serve notice and find somewhere else to live
2) Take down the dish.

How would they be my only 2 options in all seriousness?
Absolutely pointless post.

stephendevlin

Simple ...

Ask whoever owns one of the other dishes can you put a dual lnb on it. (wont affect thier service) and then run a cable from thier dish to your flat.

quad_red

whycliff wrote: »

How would they be my only 2 options in all seriousness?
Absolutely pointless post.

Because presumably affixing any sort of dish requires specific landlord consent.

If he isn't willing to give his consent (and 99% of the time apartment regulations are quite specific on not allowing dishes whether it's enforced or not) then Paulw is correct.

If the landlord insists either comply or move out.

quad_red

stephendevlin wrote: »

Simple ...

Ask whoever owns one of the other dishes can you put a dual lnb on it. (wont affect thier service) and then run a cable from thier dish to your flat.

Isn't a dual Inb required for each sky + anyway?

Lord Trollington

quad_red wrote: »

Because presumably affixing any sort of dish requires specific landlord consent.

If he isn't willing to give his consent (and 99% of the time apartment regulations are quite specific on not allowing dishes whether it's enforced or not) then Paulw is correct.

If the landlord insists either comply or move out.

I could be wide of the mark here, but I would presume that everyone in all the other apartments didnt receive his consent either.

I've no issue with taking it down whatsoever if the service provided by UPC was anyway near up to scratch.
I'd actually prefer UPC they have free setanta and broadband speed are faster than eircom.

All they are providing in the area is Digital TV, NO digital +, broadband or phone whatsoever.

I'd also have no problem taking the dish down if there weren't dishes in every other part of the development.
Upstairs next door has 3 dishes on the wall, one for himself i presume, one for down stairs and one for downstairs next to me as i can see the wires running from it...

stephendevlin

quad_red wrote: »

Isn't a dual Inb required for each sky + anyway?

Quad LNB then smart arse

Paulw

whycliff wrote: »

How would they be my only 2 options in all seriousness?
Absolutely pointless post.

What other options have you??? You asked for options, and those are the two I can see.

The landlord owns the property (well, more likely the management company do), but it is up to him if he will permit you to erect a dish or not. He has come back and required you to remove it. So, you must remove it.

If you're not happy, then you can serve notice and then find somewhere else to live.

Theboinkmaster

whycliff wrote: »

How would they be my only 2 options in all seriousness?
Absolutely pointless post.

He's right - if you don't like it move on

silja

Are you saying the same landlord owns all the properties? if so, check with neighbours if they have been asked to take their dishes down too. If yes, then there is little you can do. If no, ask the landlord straight out why you have been asked; not sure he can make one tenant take it down if it is not a universal policy.

Lord Trollington

I actually didnt ask for my options, I asked for Idea's.

I'm not necessarily looking for a way of not taking down the dish.
I could try get it from another dish, try get the landlord/management company to get a communal dish.

There are many possibilities.

Its juat me and my partner. We both work. Never any house parties, noise or bullsh*ttin about.
I'm an excellent tennent and any landlord should be glad to have those in this day and age.

Victor

stephendevlin wrote: »

Quad LNB then smart arse

Keep it constructive.

stephendevlin

whycliff wrote: »

Its juat me and my partner. We both work. Never any house parties, noise or bullsh*ttin about.
I'm an excellent tennent and any landlord should be glad to have those in this day and age.

Doesnt give you any rights unfortunatley

If the landlord wants it down it has to come down... end of.. unless you can persuade him otherwise...

If the comes down use someone elses dish ...

If ya cant do that then maybe freeview (if its in the area)

ztoical

whycliff wrote: »

I actually didnt ask for my options, I asked for Idea's.

I'm not necessarily looking for a way of not taking down the dish.
I could try get it from another dish, try get the landlord/management company to get a communal dish.

There are many possibilities.

Its juat me and my partner. We both work. Never any house parties, noise or bullsh*ttin about.
I'm an excellent tennent and any landlord should be glad to have those in this day and age.

What does your lease say with regards to fixtures on the outside walls? Is there a set of rules for the complex from the management company? Do they say anything regarding fixtures to the outside wall? Did you ask the LL when you put the dish up? How long has the dish been up? Does your LL own all the other apartments in the property? How do you know the other tenants haven't also been asked to take theirs down?

Lord Trollington

stephendevlin wrote: »

Doesnt give you any rights unfortunatley

If the landlord wants it down it has to come down... end of.. unless you can persuade him otherwise...

If the comes down use someone elses dish ...

If ya cant do that then maybe freeview (if its in the area)

I dont think it should give me any extra rights or better treatment, its his property after all.

What I cant get over is he says no dishes in the complex, without looking too hard driving in other day I counted 25.

jd

whycliff wrote: »

I dont think it should give me any extra rights or better treatment, its his property after all.

What I cant get over is he says no dishes in the complex, without looking too hard driving in other day I counted 25.

It's possible that the management company have decided to enforce the lease conditions and that the other apartment owners with satellite dishes have been also asked to take them down.

Jaysoose

OP you shoudl contact sky about getting a communal dish on the roof, problem solved. If the landlord wont go for this solution then he is being an arse and your gonna have to take the dish down unfortunately.

Lord Trollington

Jaysoose wrote: »

OP you shoudl contact sky about getting a communal dish on the roof, problem solved. If the landlord wont go for this solution then he is being an arse and your gonna have to take the dish down unfortunately.

From what I gather the landlord and the management company are all the one. when i mentioned about a communal dish he just said there is one there already for UPC.

As I've already said, I have no problem with removing the dish, but the UPC service is nothing short of shocking in 2011 in a place that is 15 minutes from Dublin.

Everyone else there are tennants. So all the dishes that are up I presume shouldn't be.

ztoical

What does your lease say? At the end of the day that is the contract that you have with the LL, doesn't matter what any other tenant in the area is doing, they may have signed a different lease. If your lease says you can't attached anything to the outside wall then the LL is within their rights to ask you to take it down.

Have you tired speaking to the your LL and expressing your issues with the communal service? Unfortunatly Sky is not a service that a LL is obligated to supply [unless it says so in your lease] so if they say tough to you your options are take it down and deal with the communal service or leave it up and deal with your LL who could terminate your lease if your breaking it by having items attached to the outside wall.

Jaysoose

No reason why sky cant put one on the roof aswell, he sounds like he is being awkward to be honest and its not gonna end well for you unfortunately.

Paulw

ztoical wrote: »

What does your lease say?

I doubt there is anything in the lease about mounting a dish on a different unit, even if the same landlord owns both.

demixed

stephendevlin wrote: »

Quad LNB then smart arse

Most sky plus satellites actually come with a quad LNB,

If your friendly with one of the neighbors, plug the cables out of your satellite and plug it into the 2 spare spaces on the neighbors. Sorted.

Marcusm

demixed wrote: »

Most sky plus satellites actually come with a quad LNB,

If your friendly with one of the neighbors, plug the cables out of your satellite and plug it into the 2 spare spaces on the neighbors. Sorted.

You might want to talk to an installer/electrician before doing this. My understanding is that properties with different electrical supplies should not simply connect o the same LNB as can cause electrical problems. Communal systems are different to simply running wires.

listermint

whycliff wrote: »

From what I gather the landlord and the management company are all the one. when i mentioned about a communal dish he just said there is one there already for UPC.

As I've already said, I have no problem with removing the dish, but the UPC service is nothing short of shocking in 2011 in a place that is 15 minutes from Dublin.

Everyone else there are tennants. So all the dishes that are up I presume shouldn't be.

UPC dont have dishes, What exactly is the problem with the UPC service that is there?

Also you need to actually speak with your neighbours and see if they have similar letters to remove. None of the posters here can answer that. You need to ask your neighbours.

the_syco

whycliff wrote: »

I'm an excellent tennent and any landlord should be glad to have those in this day and age.

I'm guessing the landlord said no dishes, and you put up a dish. Not such an excellent tenant...

slimjimmc

stephendevlin wrote: »

Simple ...

Ask whoever owns one of the other dishes can you put a dual lnb on it. (wont affect thier service) and then run a cable from thier dish to your flat.

If you look over on the OP's other thread on Satellite on this very thread topic you will see there electrical safety concerns of sharing someone else's dish. Apparently there is the potential (excuse the pun) for a leak or short in the other guy's gear to be transmitted via the LNB and coax down into your equipment.

Dublin_Gunner

Technically, if the property is for rented accommodation, you are entitled to use whatever service provider you like.

To be told you cannot have a dish on your rented accommodation, and he will not put a communal dish up - this is in effect an anti-competitive behaviour.

You could easily challenge the rule in the lease if you wish (as its in effect an illegal clause in a contract). But its probably more of a PITA than anything else.

I think under the EU Freedom of Service laws, you are entitled to erect a dish regardless of what it says in the lease.

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Technically, if the property is for rented accommodation, you are entitled to use whatever service provider you like.

You could easily challenge the rule in the lease if you wish (as its in effect an illegal clause in a contract). But its probably more of a PITA than anything else.

The OP is not forbidden from using any provider. The OP is simply forbidden from erecting a satellite dish on another unit (not the unit he is renting). The fact that the unit he is renting is not in a position to receive a satellite signal is not the fault of the landlord, so therefore is not an illegal clause in the contract.

There is also no case law in Ireland which shows that forbidding of the mounting of a satellite dish is an illegal clause in the Lease Contract.

Dublin_Gunner

Paulw wrote: »

The OP is not forbidden from using any provider. The OP is simply forbidden from erecting a satellite dish on another unit (not the unit he is renting). The fact that the unit he is renting is not in a position to receive a satellite signal is not the fault of the landlord, so therefore is not an illegal clause in the contract.

Ah, I seem to have missed this nugget of info.

Paulw wrote: »

There is also no case law in Ireland which shows that forbidding of the mounting of a satellite dish is an illegal clause in the Lease Contract.

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

Its certainly not straight forward, but a case could be made.


Its been discussed many times in the satellite forum oer the years.

Here's a post with relevant info and links
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57366766&postcount=11

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Ah, I seem to have missed this nugget of info.

Vital nugget.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

It's not the landlord who is making the rules, it's the management company.

Aside from which, you are forbidden from mounting a dish, but not from receiving a satellite signal. Dishes do not have to be mounted outside, and can be used through a window, so even then, I doubt this European directive (it's not an actual law), would apply.

The competition law would not come in to play either, since again, you are only forbidden from erecting a dish externally. You can have one internal.

robd

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

That's not really going to solve the problem in the short to medium term though. The likely winners in this one would be the solicitors. God only knows the costs.

The best the OP can do is talk to other tenants and establish a relationship with them, finding out if they've the same issue, all with a view to getting a communal dish. A workable solution basically.

It's a good bit of work but if he generally feels that UPC is no good and absolutely wants Sky then that's what he needs to do. Get a petition going, set up a committee etc.

No amount of complaining or tooing and froing on this board is going to resolve the issue.

Dublin_Gunner

Paulw wrote: »

Vital nugget.

It's not the landlord who is making the rules, it's the management company.

Aside from which, you are forbidden from mounting a dish, but not from receiving a satellite signal. Dishes do not have to be mounted outside, and can be used through a window, so even then, I doubt this European directive (it's not an actual law), would apply.

The competition law would not come in to play either, since again, you are only forbidden from erecting a dish externally. You can have one internal.

I'd love to know how to receive a satellite signal without a dish of some sort!

If no other placement of a dish apart from externally to the property, allows you receive a signal, then their rules are restricting your right of service.

As I said its not straightforward.

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I'd love to know how to receive a satellite signal without a dish of some sort!

If no other placement of a dish apart from externally to the property, allows you receive a signal, then their rules are restricting your right of service.

As I said its not straightforward.

Definitely not straightforward, and it's so complex no one is ever likely to take a case to court over it.

Firstly, I can't see how a court can grant you a right to mount a dish on property you don't own (you only have a lease. Technically the management company own the property.

You can receive a satellite signal with a dish mounted indoors (through a window). The dish doesn't need (absolutely need) to be mounted outdoors.

Yeah, this is something that can be discussed in many many ways, but until there is case law, the management company have the legal right to enforce the no dish policy.

So, bottom line for the OP in this case, is that he must obey the landlord.

Bazzy

i've seen dishes mounted on tripods on balconies not braking any rules with regards to moutning of dishes.

There are some management companies that went and removed peoples satellite dishes in a complex in dublin. As they didnt own the dishes they left them for the residents in there parking space.

They then sent the residents a bill for removing said dishes and filling in the holes left by them ....

JustAddWater

There are quite a lot of smart arses and people giving you opinions (not options) I shall give you an option that no-one else has suggested yet (can't believe nobody mentioned it!)

why not get UPC standard (since you get setanta as you liked) and simply buy a PVR or DVDR/PVR

Something like this http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2662253/art/lg/rht-497h-dvd-recorder.html would work

I'm sure that you can find your own that suits your budget.

RE: The dish.... I'm afraid that it'll have to come down. Never mind the other apartments, they may or may not be in a similar situation

The everyone else is doing it so why can't we attitude isn't going to help or cut it in this situtation... It's only going to make you look bad if you push the maintainence company or landlord

athtrasna

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Merely because a case hasn't be taken as yet. EU law would supercede here, making the clause illegal.

I'm pretty sure the case could be made under the competition act too, as to enforce these rules, the landlord would essentially be giving 1 company a monopoly in the complex.

Its certainly not straight forward, but a case could be made.


Its been discussed many times in the satellite forum oer the years.

Here's a post with relevant info and links
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=57366766&postcount=11

Sounding like a broken record but here I go again - the EU ruling is that people can't be prohibited from receiving satellite broadcasts from their home countries. That means, that the government can't block signals. It does not mean that every house in the country has to have satellite access. It is up to individuals to select accommodation that enables them to receive satellite feed. By renting/buying in a development that clearly does not allow satellites, a person would not be entitled to erect a dish.

Not relevant to the OP but the EU thing comes up time after time and some people totally misunderstand the context.

athtrasna

Bazzy wrote: »

i've seen dishes mounted on tripods on balconies not braking any rules with regards to moutning of dishes.

There are some management companies that went and removed peoples satellite dishes in a complex in dublin. As they didnt own the dishes they left them for the residents in there parking space.

They then sent the residents a bill for removing said dishes and filling in the holes left by them ....

Technically the person erecting the dish could be charged with criminal damage as they don't own the external walls that they drilled through in the first place.

Dublin_Gunner

athtrasna wrote: »

Sounding like a broken record but here I go again - the EU ruling is that people can't be prohibited from receiving satellite broadcasts from their home countries. That means, that the government can't block signals. It does not mean that every house in the country has to have satellite access. It is up to individuals to select accommodation that enables them to receive satellite feed. By renting/buying in a development that clearly does not allow satellites, a person would not be entitled to erect a dish.

Not relevant to the OP but the EU thing comes up time after time and some people totally misunderstand the context.

No it doesn't, it does help enforce that though. It relates to the freedom of satellite services across member states of the EU - your home nationality makes no difference.

Surely, if I live within my home country, then my right to watch my home countries satellite signals are preserved also?? You contradict yourself in misunderstanding.

I'd like you to read 2 EU articles:
EU Press release 2001

Concerns of an architectural and town-planning nature, which are often cited in this context, can be met by solutions which make it possible, where necessary and technically feasible, to minimise the visual and aesthetic impact of satellite dishes without impairing quality of reception, under reasonable conditions and at reasonable cost; such solutions can, for example, involve the location of the dish (indoors rather than outdoors) or the type of dish (e.g. a collective dish rather than numerous individual dishes).

Obstacles to freedom of user choice
The choice of technology, like the choice of services, rests entirely with the user. It is therefore unacceptable to influence such choices, for example, by penalising or otherwise discouraging the use of satellite dishes, or requiring satellite dish users to receive particular services or channels.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION ON THE APPLICATION OF THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS AND SERVICES

II. The free movement of goods and services and satellite dishes: general principles
By virtue of the principles of the free movement of goods (Articles 28 to 30 EC) and the free movement of services (Articles 49 et seq. EC, as interpreted in the light of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights), as a rule, every individual who wishes to have access to a satellite dish must have that opportunity.

[23] See the following judgments: Brasserie du Pêcheur, Joined Cases C-46/93 and C-48/93; Case 14/83; Case 106/89; Fratelli Costanzo, Case 103/88. Moreover, the Court added that the liability of a Member State arises whatever the agency of the State whose action or inaction was the cause of the failure to fulfil its obligations, even in the case of a constitutionally independent institution (see the Commission vs Belgium judgment, Case 77-69, and Case 71/81). Moreover, the rights created by the free movement of services may be relied upon by individuals against organisations or bodies which, whatever their legal status, are subject to the authority or control of the State or have special powers beyond those which result from the normal rules applicable in relations between individuals (cf. judgment C-188/89). This extensively refers both to acts issued by the public authorities and to those issued by bodies which are legally considered private, but on whom the public authorities exercise a decisive influence by appointing directors, providing funding, etc. (see the Commission vs France judgment, Case 21/84; and the "Buy Irish" judgement referred to in note 22).

You may stop being a broken record now.

Paulw

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

such solutions can, for example, involve the location of the dish (indoors rather than outdoors) or the type of dish (e.g. a collective dish rather than numerous individual dishes).

Just as you quoted - the dish can be used indoors. Therefore the complex does not automatically have to grant permission to externally erect a dish.

Either way, none of this applies to the OP, since he can't receive satellite signal from his unit, and had previously mounted a dish on a separate unit, which he was not renting.

athtrasna

That still says everyone has the right, but not that everyone has the right everywhere! Freedom of movement and freedom of choice still apply. The opportunity arises in the choice of location.

Same way as if I want access to public transport, I live in an area that has it. I don't move half way up a mountain and demand it.