Sick of the corruption and gombeenism

simonj

It is frankly sickening that the caretaker Taoiseach, a man who did not even offer himself to the electorate and is no longer an elected official, has the gall let alone the right to appoint a failed Fianna Fáil election candidate - Darragh O Brien - to the Senate

To the bitter end, gombeen politics, they have learned nothing at all.

The media are even worse -Terry Prone (Irish Examiner)

Toughest of all, of course, is the situation, today, of those who lost their seats, their livelihood, and in some cases, their self-respect. We have become so furious and cruel a society that the general reaction to their loss is “serves them right”.

It is deeply insulting to the millions of Irish people who are victims of our corrupt political system to witness self-righteous journalists like Prone accuse them of being cruel because they are furious and want justice.
his is especially the case when failed politicians get massive pay-outs having instigated policies that saddle the tax payer with massive debt.

And of course, the most sycophantic of the lot - RTE's Marian Finucane:

This must be a terrible personal tragedy for him (Brian Cowen’s fall). I mean to see the party he loves so much, to be at the head of Government of a party that you’re so proud of that brings in the IMF, I mean on a personal level that has to be very difficult.

Isn’t it amazing that a politician who has led a privileged life, who won a seat on the basis that daddy died and he got the by-election - who has never wanted for anything, who was among the best paid politicians in the world, who is retiring with a fortune at the expense of the people he betrayed can be described as a tragic figure?

It is for these reasons of corruption, of unwarranted influence, this unacceptable cost that groups like Amhran Nua need to grow

dan_d

Can we please now put FF behind us and start rebuilding the country.
We've talked about this for about 2 and a half years now.That's plenty enough attention to have given them.
It's time to move on and get things working again.

nesf

dan_d wrote: »

Can we please now put FF behind us and start rebuilding the country.
We've talked about this for about 2 and a half years now.That's plenty enough attention to have given them.
It's time to move on and get things working again.

Agreed completely. I couldn't give two ****s about Cowen and really only care about what the new FG/Lab Government will do over the next 5 years.

simonj

Fair enough - lets see how many family members will be co-opted into council seats by FG for starters, they are as gombeen as FF

PatsytheNazi

simonj wrote: »

It is frankly sickening that the caretaker Taoiseach, a man who did not even offer himself to the electorate and is no longer an elected official, has the gall let alone the right to appoint a failed Fianna Fáil election candidate - Darragh O Brien - to the Senate

To the bitter end, gombeen politics, they have learned nothing at all.

The media are even worse -Terry Prone (Irish Examiner)

Toughest of all, of course, is the situation, today, of those who lost their seats, their livelihood, and in some cases, their self-respect. We have become so furious and cruel a society that the general reaction to their loss is “serves them right”.

It is deeply insulting to the millions of Irish people who are victims of our corrupt political system to witness self-righteous journalists like Prone accuse them of being cruel because they are furious and want justice.
his is especially the case when failed politicians get massive pay-outs having instigated policies that saddle the tax payer with massive debt.

And of course, the most sycophantic of the lot - RTE's Marian Finucane:

This must be a terrible personal tragedy for him (Brian Cowen’s fall). I mean to see the party he loves so much, to be at the head of Government of a party that you’re so proud of that brings in the IMF, I mean on a personal level that has to be very difficult.

Isn’t it amazing that a politician who has led a privileged life, who won a seat on the basis that daddy died and he got the by-election - who has never wanted for anything, who was among the best paid politicians in the world, who is retiring with a fortune at the expense of the people he betrayed can be described as a tragic figure?

It is for these reasons of corruption, of unwarranted influence, this unacceptable cost that groups like Amhran Nua need to grow

To be fair to the Labour Party they are trying to stop nepotism in the party.

" LABOUR FAMILY dynasties are at risk following an edict from head office that relatives of TDs will not be considered for vacated local authority seats. "
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0304/1224291281668.html

ei.sdraob

One way to discourage corruption is to make governance and decision making more transparent

its hard to be corrupt when you are being observed...

PatsytheNazi

ei.sdraob wrote: »

One way to discourage corruption is to make governance and decision making more transparent

its hard to be corrupt when you are being observed...

Yes. Labour ( and I'm not a Labour suppporter though obviously they have some good points ) intorduced a good Freedom of Information Act pre 1997. FF got in and in true Gombeen style like the stealth taxes, watered down the act and added costs to obtaining the information to make it prohibitve for anyone to research what was going on. The FF version of "freedom and democray" ofcourse, all " for the betterment of the nation " etc :rolleyes:

However last night on the Politics show they mentioned something about having Freedom of Information into the constitution to stop a future diluting of the act as FF did after 1997. In fact some say that all Govt information bar the Guards, security etc should be made FREELY available to the public. I totally agree.

Min

It was on radio1 last week that the Taoiseach was required whether he wanted to or not to fill the vacancy in the Seanad.

HarryPotter41

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

To be fair to the Labour Party they are trying to stop nepotism in the party.

" LABOUR FAMILY dynasties are at risk following an edict from head office that relatives of TDs will not be considered for vacated local authority seats. "
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0304/1224291281668.html

Hah, who is Arthur Spring TD related to again?? They stop family dynasties when it suits them.

ei.sdraob

PatsytheNazi wrote: »

Yes. Labour ( and I'm not a Labour suppporter though obviously they have some good points ) intorduced a good Freedom of Information Act pre 1997. FF got in and in true Gombeen style like the stealth taxes, watered down the act and added costs to obtaining the information to make it prohibitve for anyone to research what was going on. The FF version of "freedom and democray" ofcourse, all " for the betterment of the nation " etc :rolleyes:

However last night on the Politics show they mentioned something about having Freedom of Information into the constitution to stop a future diluting of the act as FF did after 1997. In fact some say that all Govt information bar the Guards, security etc should be made FREELY available to the public. I totally agree.

Ah Fianna Fail, yes

Dont forget NAMA an organisation surrounded in secrecy managing dozens of billions in assets

im sure there wont be any tribunals decades from now from the corruption and waste that is guaranteed to emerge when so much power and money is given to so few behind closed doors

OhNoYouDidn't

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Hah, who is Arthur Spring TD related to again?? They stop family dynasties when it suits them.

Are you argung that ALL relatives of former politicians should be banned from public life?

Denerick

Its funny really, neither FG or Labour will introduce any meaningful political reform. There will be no new constitution, no new politics. DO you know why? Because most Irish people like being able to ring their TD up at half three in the morning, complaining about some pothole or other, and demanding they attend their 9th cousin twice removed's funeral.

Time we looked in the mirror as a society.

Denerick

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you argung that ALL relatives of former politicians should be banned from public life?

No, he isn't saying that. Someone posted some nonsense about Labour being free of dynastic politics, despite the fact that it is patently untrue.

Kristopherus

Denerick wrote: »

Its funny really, neither FG or Labour will introduce any meaningful political reform. There will be no new constitution, no new politics. DO you know why? Because most Irish people like being able to ring their TD up at half three in the morning, complaining about some pothole or other, and demanding they attend their 9th cousin twice removed's funeral.

Time we looked in the mirror as a society.

No need to ring them anymore. They can do it via www.fixmystreet.ie when its up & running.:D

HarryPotter41

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you argung that ALL relatives of former politicians should be banned from public life?

I never said that, I just find that an anomaly. I have never seen the reason that family members would not continue in politics. When you grow up in a political household you will always have an above average interest in politics and public life.

simonj

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

Hah, who is Arthur Spring TD related to again?? They stop family dynasties when it suits them.

Nephew of Dick Spring, former Labour leader.
What really got my goat in this case was when in a Speech SDLP leader M Ritchie referred to getting a 'Spring back in his rightful place'

The Labour policy is a new one, with Emer Costello having been co-opted to Dublin City Council in 2003 to replace her husband Joe, and Eamon Tuffy replacing his daughter Joanna on South Dublin County Council in 2003.
Both subsequently stood for local election and were elected.

OhNoYouDidn't

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

I never said that, I just find that an anomaly. I have never seen the reason that family members would not continue in politics. When you grow up in a political household you will always have an above average interest in politics and public life.

Exactly. So whats the problem?

Denerick wrote:

No, he isn't saying that. Someone posted some nonsense about Labour being free of dynastic politics, despite the fact that it is patently untrue.

There is a difference between dynastic politics and following your uncle into the Dail 20 years later.

ilovesleep

dan_d wrote: »

Can we please now put FF behind us and start rebuilding the country.
We've talked about this for about 2 and a half years now.That's plenty enough attention to have given them.
It's time to move on and get things working again.

I disagree. We wont be able to move on unless prosecutions are brought against FF, bankers and other vested interests that destroyed Ireland. The people of this country, whether or not they got into debt or not, will be suffering for decades to come with higher taxes, less services. We'll have bank debts to service that we played no part in the making off and we'll have zombie banks or failed banks. Something that could have been avoidable if FF did their jobs and payed intention to that ESRI report from 2000 and other such warnings instead of recommending suicide. Negligence of the highest order. Instead when the sh1t hits the fan, they blame society as if it was our responsiblty to do their jobs.

HarryPotter41

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Exactly. So whats the problem?




There is a difference between dynastic politics and following your uncle into the Dail 20 years later.

The problem is that its hypocritical in a sense. And you are forgetting his grandfather, and how do you define dynsaty?

HarryPotter41

ilovesleep wrote: »

I disagree. We wont be able to move on unless prosecutions are brought against FF, bankers and other vested interests that destroyed Ireland. The people of this country, whether or not they got into debt or not, will be suffering for decades to come with high taxes, less services. Something that could have been avoidable if FF did their jobs and payed intention to that ESRI report from 2000 and other such warnings instead of recommending suicide. Negligence of the highest order. Instead when the sh1t hits the fan, they blame society as if it was our responsiblty to do their jobs.

So the politicians will be charged with what exactly?

ilovesleep

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

So the politicians will be charged with what exactly?

Negligence. They were extremely careless in the running of this country.

Biggins

ilovesleep wrote: »

I disagree. We wont be able to move on unless prosecutions are brought against FF, bankers and other vested interests that destroyed Ireland. The people of this country, whether or not they got into debt or not, will be suffering for decades to come with higher taxes, less services. We'll have bank debts to service that we played no part in the making off and we'll have zombie banks or failed banks. Something that could have been avoidable if FF did their jobs and payed intention to that ESRI report from 2000 and other such warnings instead of recommending suicide. Negligence of the highest order. Instead when the sh1t hits the fan, they blame society as if it was our responsiblty to do their jobs.

Indeed and if no one is held at least accountable, what disincentive is there to stop them or others in doing similar again?

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed and if no one is held at least accountable, what disincentive is there to stop them or others in doing similar again?

Exactly! The people of this country will be exploited time and time again if theres no prosecutions taken.

What kind of a country are we leaving to todays children?
A country that allows the catholic church to sexually abuse children and then to allow the church away free from their actions.
A country whose main politicial party exploits the citiziens to help their developer and banking mates.
What is to stop another organisation coming into ireland and exploiting us?

HarryPotter41

ilovesleep wrote: »

Negligence. They were extremely careless in the running of this country.

And the statute to be used?

ilovesleep

HarryPotter41 wrote: »

And the statute to be used?

I'll find out for you. I have an appointment made with a solicitor that deals in negligence for advice.

HarryPotter41

ilovesleep wrote: »

I'll find out for you. I have an appointment made with a solicitor that deals in negligence for advice.

Excellent, can't wait to hear it. Precedent would be appreciated as well. Just so it doesn't look like inflammatory nonsense.