Why should politicians get a salary

whiteonion

Why should politicians get a salary? Why should politicians get paid at all? The value for money they provide is always negative. I see no reasons why politicians should get paid. In the old days politicians did not receive a salary.

Greyian

Well, if there wasn't any salary at all, we'd be back to the old days when only the rich could run, and they would of course use their power to secure their own interests, at the expense of everyone else.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't see huge cuts to politicians' salaries though.

Manach

Historically then only the rich (inheritated or newly made) would then be able to sit - and not the poorer classes which would not have the resources.
A better scheme, also from the old days, might be at the end of a politician's term would be to assess her and if found then to be incompetant to impose a fine.

muboop1

Because they need to feed, cloth and house themselves...
U know... basic human rights??

In the past only the wealthy were politicians.

To return to that way is to make it so only the very rich can lead us... Being rich doesn't make you smart or a good leader!

Fluffybums

Because they are doing a job and an important one at that.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

It was one of the main demands of the Chartist movement to have salaries for MPs. Sadly I don't think they intended it getting out of control the way it is now.

man.about.town

has common sense ireland altogether...... they get paid because they do a job

RandomName2

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should politicians get a salary? Why should politicians get paid at all? The value for money they provide is always negative. I see no reasons why politicians should get paid. In the old days politicians did not receive a salary.

In the old days as you said they did not get paid (till c.1870, I think)

It was seen as a privilege to serve one's state and a privilege which was reserved for the gentry, who alone could afford a full time job without pay.

Sort of answers your question!

Remember our own Isaac Butt went broke representing the Irish!

Byron85

Why? Well, mainly because stuff costs money. Welcome to 21st century Earth.

aDeener

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should politicians get a salary? Why should politicians get paid at all? The value for money they provide is always negative. I see no reasons why politicians should get paid. In the old days politicians did not receive a salary.

the fact that you have to ask such a question does not bode well for you.

has common sense completely deserted some people here?

whiteonion

aDeener wrote: »

the fact that you have to ask such a question does not bode well for you.

has common sense completely deserted some people here?

I'm asking a straight question, what value does a politician provide that motivates us to pay them ANY salary? Their "contributions" when they "work" as politician is in my experience always of negative value. They should not get a single cent. In fact, they should have to pay €100 000 per year.

Liam Byrne

As it is don't you need a €15,000 deposit to run as a candidate?

So it's already skewed in favour of the richer.

RMD

whiteonion wrote: »

I'm asking a straight question, what value does a politician provide that motivates us to pay them ANY salary? Their "contributions" when they "work" as politician is in my experience always of negative value. They should not get a single cent. In fact, they should have to pay €100 000 per year.

And then only the upper class can run, only representing the upper class in politics and the interests of the rich. A truly remarkable idea, I wonder why none of us thought about this sooner.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

RandomName2 wrote: »

Remember our own Isaac Butt went broke representing the Irish!

He was a lawyer, who along with journalists found it easy to find work in London. However he was in debt before he became an MP and then had to work constantly to repay it, meaning he was often absent from parliament.

mikemac

There was a time when you bought a commission in the army.
You got to the top by paying to get there.
The debacle of the Charge of the Light Brigade and other failures brought about a lot of reforms afterwards.
More reading here if you want

Is this what you're aiming at OP? The rich and upper classes buy the positions?

mikemac

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As it is don't you need a €15,000 deposit to run as a candidate?

So it's already skewed in favour of the richer.

Nope, not for the Dáil anyway

To be nominated for membership of the Dáil, candidates must complete one of the following options:

A Certificate of Party Affiliation
Statutory declarations by 30 assentors in the relevant Dáil constituency
The candidate, or someone on his or her behalf, must lodge a deposit of €500 with the returning officer

And you can get money back if you get enough votes

The 1997 Electoral Act also created a system of reimbursement of election expenses. If a candidate received at least one-quarter of the quota of votes for the constituency in which he or she ran, he or she may apply for a reimbursement of up to €8,700 of his or her election expenses.

You need money alright for posters and expenses, someone who wants to run as independent needs to be getting organized long before the campaign.
So if anyone wants to run in the next local elections 2011 is the time to get started

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

feelingstressed wrote: »

Is this what you're aiming at OP? The rich and upper classes buy the positions?

Of course, its unrealistic for people to expect the state to provide equal opportunities in government for everyone :pac:

Jaysoose

You have to pay top dollar to get the best most capable people......snigger..couldnt keep it together..

BlaasForRafa

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should politicians get a salary? Why should politicians get paid at all? The value for money they provide is always negative. I see no reasons why politicians should get paid. In the old days politicians did not receive a salary.

Poor thread is poor.

man.about.town

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As it is don't you need a €15,000 deposit to run as a candidate?

So it's already skewed in favour of the richer.

i wouldnt really class 15k as alot of money in the political sense of things

Liam Byrne

man.about.town wrote: »

i wouldnt really class 15k as alot of money in the political sense of things

I've been corrected above (I'd probably heard it mentioned in terms of the OVERALL budget required to run) but 15k is a hell of a lot of money in a personal sense, and it's PEOPLE that should be running for election.

So I have no idea what "in the political sense of things" is supposed to mean. Maybe it's not viewed as a lot when it arrives in a brown envelope or something.

But anyone who doesn't view 15k as a lot of money is out of touch with reality.

southsiderosie

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've been corrected above (I'd probably heard it mentioned in terms of the OVERALL budget required to run) but 15k is a hell of a lot of money in a personal sense, and it's PEOPLE that should be running for election.

So I have no idea what "in the political sense of things" is supposed to mean. Maybe it's not viewed as a lot when it arrives in a brown envelope or something.

But anyone who doesn't view 15k as a lot of money is out of touch with reality.

I don't disagree that it is a lot of money for the individual, but you could argue that if someone couldn't raise $15K in their own constituency, then they probably couldn't win anyway...I mean, that is a do-able amount in small (<$20) donations.

As for the OP, if politicians weren't paid, then only the rich and/or mega-corrupt would run for office - corruption is one of the arguments for paying public officials (and most public employees) a decent wage. Unfortunately, in Ireland, too many individuals see politics rather than private enterprise as a pathway to personal enrichment...but that is a whole other can of worms altogether.

deise go deo

There are several reasons.

-Politicians should be paid so that they can focus their efforts on their public work rather than having to do part time work to fund their debauchery.
-If they were not paid only the Rich could stand for office as only the rich could afford to.
-If they were not paid they would be (More) open to bribery from vested interests.
-If they were not paid, then it would act as a barrier to those with any kind of prospects from entering politics.



Politicians are paid to much in this country, The current system of expenses, benefits and pensions seems to encourage greed and corruption, but there are many reasons as to why paying politicians is not only a good idea, but vital to good governance.

johnmcdnl

lets take the situation where Ireland was prospering and one of the best places in the world to live...

say low crime, good healthcare, good wages for everyone, low debt etc etc etc



would this thread have happened?? the reason we're in the ****es right now is because we've had a terrible government for the past few years...

say if Enda Kenny and FG take us out of this mess and put us back in good shape should Enda get a pension???

new here

Believe it or not, politicians are humans.

And yes, they do work and you can't argue with that. Whether you like what they do or not, that is fact.

There are many people that doctors/teachers/retail assistants/any other occuption that you can list, that we don't like. They all get paid, too. If we went by the theory of "I don't like them or their work, so why are they getting paid!?" there will be a LOT of people merely volunteering right now.

motherriley

I think politicians should get a small salary and get bonuses for what positive thinks they have done for the community ie constituents.:eek:

Zombrex

motherriley wrote: »

I think politicians should get a small salary and get bonuses for what positive thinks they have done for the community ie constituents.:eek:

Who would decide what is or isn't a positive thing?

Ireland is terrible for local politics over national interest (which is what kept FF in power for so long, screw up the economy but its ok I'd vote for him sure didn't he build that swimming pool), I would be nervous about any system that financially rewarded politicians if and only if they acted in a particular way to a particular group.

Politicians should be paid a flat rate and they should get booted out of office through elections. Any other system introduces too many influences.

Ultimately though it is up to the electorate to be more careful in how they choose governments. Which unfortunately has always been the problem in Ireland.

ISAW

whiteonion wrote: »

I'm asking a straight question, what value does a politician provide that motivates us to pay them ANY salary? Their "contributions" when they "work" as politician is in my experience always of negative value. They should not get a single cent. In fact, they should have to pay €100 000 per year.

Why not broaden the issue and shed some light on it.

Whiteonion politicians are paid form our taxes.
Do you believe people should pay tax?
If so on what should tax money be spent?
Why should anyone get paid?
Do you believe the state should just take of everything and no one own anything or get paid?
For that mattter do you believe we should have an parliament?
I mean what do you think the parliament is for?
And if they pay 100,000 a year to whom should they pay it and on what should it be spent?

Biggins

Sean Ardagh said on RTE this morning that in order to attract good people to the Dáil, the current TD’s salary must be maintained as a minimum. What bullschite!

Tenger

Biggins wrote: »

Sean Ardagh said on RTE this morning that in order to attract good people to the Dáil, the current TD’s salary must be maintained as a minimum. What bullschite!

Politics should be seen as a vocation to serve rather than a career choice.

Its not a large corporation that wants to attract the best applicants. Yes we do want competent politicians.

I would argue in favour of compulsory mgmt/human resource/project mgmt courses for all new TDs. All returning TDs must have this qualification. Thus if/when they go for re-election we know they have some training in things that may help them as members of our governing clique. It would enable ministers of depts to be able to properly question the activities of their dept rather than just being a figurehead.

Biggins

Tenger wrote: »

Politics should be seen as a vocation to serve rather than a career choice.

Thats genuinely the way I look at it.

jmayo

whiteonion wrote: »

Why should politicians get a salary? Why should politicians get paid at all? The value for money they provide is always negative. I see no reasons why politicians should get paid. In the old days politicians did not receive a salary.

Yeah lets go back to the old days where women couldn't vote as well.
Hell they were affectively owned by their husbands.
Actually most people couldn't vote.

There is an argument for lower salaries, no pensions before pension age, no lump sum severance packages, vouched expenses for politicans, but your proposal is plain DAFT, much like some of your other cocked eyes ideas.

This ranks up there with your thread on taxing sugar because it is bad if used in large quantities or banning certain classes of drugs like ALL psychiatric drugs or anti cholestorol drugs :rolleyes:

ISAW wrote: »

Why not broaden the issue and shed some light on it.

Whiteonion politicians are paid form our taxes.
Do you believe people should pay tax?

Oh he does.
He started a thread not so long ago about taxing sugar. :rolleyes:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056148368

Oh and he also see no issues with raising Corporation tax.
He also believes farmers should lose all subsidies and pay taxes.

StupidLikeAFox

I dont think its advisable to have people in positions of huge power getting poorly paid. It would seriously increase the temptation to engage n corruption or accept money under the table. The current wages could come down a bit though.