how safe is motor racing nowadays

kev1.3s

http://vimeo.com/20247765

some horrific looking accidents here!

unkel

Dunno about the cars, but back then the drivers must have been made of rubber :eek:

corktina

i wonder how many of them died? more than a few id say

Treehouse72

If you read up on the history for F1 it is incredible how many drivers died down the decades right up through the 80's. Many of these deaths are there to see on Youtube since - of course - TV cameras have been recording for much of F1 history. I made the mistake once of watching through these clips - a deeply upsetting and unpleasant experience that I don't recommend. Some of the accidents stay in your head and don't leave.

corktina

i'll always rememebr Ayron Senna crashing...I just knew it was bad the second it happened. RIP

antodeco

Looking at that clip there, it seemed that alot of the drivers were thrown from the cars and rolled. This may have been the more "saving grace" for them. Still, definitely made of rubber!

kev1.3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3C_M5H9oe0&feature=related

This is one that always stuck with me! and to think they they actually went on to finish the race.

unkel

kev1.3s wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3C_M5H9oe0&feature=related

This is one that always stuck with me! and to think they they actually went on to finish the race.

That made me google and find the clip where the accident is not blurred out. Horrible crash.

Treehouse72

unkel wrote: »

That made me google and find the clip where the accident is not blurred out. Horrible crash.

Kyalami 1977 was nasty. The kid who ran across the track - he was an untrained 18 year old marshal - was carrying a fire extinguisher with him and by one of those quirks of fate when the race car hit him the extinguisher was right at cockpit level and smashed straight into Pryce's head, pretty near decapitating him. The steward himself was cut to pieces - literally - by the impact.

vincenzolorenzo

I think the most tragic crash footage I've ever seen was Roger Williamson, Zandvoort 1973. David Purley looked to be the only one who cared about what was going on. Its just so frustrating watching the complete lack of reaction from the marshals, and you can see the complete despair in Purley's body language when he realises there's no hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mz3ZzSXyWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mz3ZzSXyWM

Its only when you see footage like that that you realise just how far things have come on since those dark days.

Big Nasty

Freaky the rest of the drivers just keep on going!

Treehouse72

Yes, that Roger Williamson one is probably the most horrific of them all to watch. Jilles Villeneuve's death is also horrible to watch, as is the Italian chap who died on the start grind in '82 in his first F1 start - can't remember his name now - maybe Petroni or something like that?


Ed: Just looked it up...Paletti was his name.

unkel

The improvement in safety in F1 in recent decades is telling. 15 fatalities in the 50s, 14 in the 60s, 12 in the 70s, 4 in the 80s and only 2 in the 90s. The last F1 fatality was Senna in '94

BrianD3

Worst crash I can think of right now is Gordon Smiley's at Indy in 1982. Instant death and I'd say if it happened today with far stronger cars and the "safer" barrier, it'd still be a fatality.

Also Russell Philips in NASCAR in 1995 was a horrible crash, his car's roof was peeled open like a sardine can by the catch fencing and the poor driver was decapitated and shredded by the fence. AFAIK this crash resulted in the addition of extra strengthening to the nascar rollcages. If it happened today he might be OK.

One fo the worst crashes of all time was Martin Donnelly's at Jerez. He was unbeliveably fortunate to survive without too many long term effects from his injuries.

Treehouse72

BrianD3 wrote: »

Also Russell Philips in NASCAR in 1995 was a horrible crash, his car's roof was peeled open like a sardine can by the catch fencing and the poor driver was decapitated and shredded by the fence. AFAIK this crash resulted in the addition of extra strengthening to the nascar rollcages. If it happened today he might be OK.

The only saving grace with the Philips crash is that it happened so damn fast I'd say he was dead before be even knew he was having a crash.

Certainly in Europe we have a slightly condescending attitude to American motor sports, but so many guys have died in Nascar and other US formats that it really suggests it's more dangerous than formula racing. The most unusual crash death in many ways was Dale Earnhardt Snr, because the crash looks so incredibly innocuous - until you remember it was at 150mph.

Big Nasty

Treehouse72 wrote: »

The only saving grace with the Philips crash is that it happened so damn fast I'd say he was dead before be even knew he was having a crash.

Certainly in Europe we have a slightly condescending attitude to American motor sports, but so many guys have died in Nascar and other US formats that it really suggests it's more dangerous than formula racing. The most unusual crash death in many ways was Dale Earnhardt Snr, because the crash looks so incredibly innocuous - until you remember it was at 150mph.

Wasn't it NASCAR that first introduced mandatory use of the HANS device after Earnhardt's accident?

shamwari

corktina wrote: »

i'll always rememebr Ayron Senna crashing...I just knew it was bad the second it happened. RIP

That was indeed a dreadful accident, but not the worse I have seen at that Tamburello bend at Imola.

'89: Berger ploughed his Ferrari into the wall at a higher speed than Senna. The car erupted into a fireball, and only for some marshalls being on the scene within seconds, Berger too would have perished.

'87: Piquet's William's swapped ends and ploughed backwards into Tamburello. Piquet was concussed and missed the race.

The sad thing abouts Senna's accident was its freakishness: the suspension from the car pierced his helmet. Had he hit the wall faster or at a more oblique angle, he probably would have survived. Apart from his head injuries, he was only bruised.

I remember reading Prof Sid Watkins biography a few years ago, and I found his comments on what he found when he arrived at Senna's accident, and how he tried so hard to save him to be among the most moving I have read anywhere on any subject.

Treehouse72

LIGHTNING wrote: »

In all fairness to that crash Earnhardt has taken off his belts and was driving around without them on. Not the best idea in any moving device let alone a car moving at 150mph!

I didn't know that...presumably he took it off because it was the last lap? Certainly it makes sense because the impact should not have been enough to kill a driver in a modern racing car.

Big Nasty

LIGHTNING wrote: »

In all fairness to that crash Earnhardt has taken off his belts and was driving around without them on. Not the best idea in any moving device let alone a car moving at 150mph!

Where ya getting that from? He was known to wear his belts loose as he didn't like the restriction but that is all!

ianobrien

There are a few points to remember about motor racing in the "olden" days...

1. Roll Cages were banned in touring/saloon cars as they could be used to reduce chassis flex, improving handling. That was the logic. I remember reading that Alan Mann used hide the strengthening behind trim and roof cloths in the Cortinas. Then, alloy roll cages were allowed (eg BMW Batombile and RS3100)

2. Exotic materials were allowed. The Merc Le Mans cars from the '50's had a magnesium alloy construction. Now, that's clever in case of a fire.......

3. The ultimate goal was performance, and anything not designed to make the car go was removed. Self sealing fuel tanks are heavy, aluminium alloys are lighter than steel (but not able to take the impact loads)

4. Then, the research into injuries was not carried out and silly things were allowed for years, eg feet allowed in front of front axle, heads and helmets above the highest point of the car, using a 4 point harness regarded as being "soft", the acceptance of the death rate, etc.

Modern cars (or even using vintage cars in FIA vintage races) must comply with modern regulations and as such, a Lotus Cortina racing today is safer than the Cortina Jim Clark used to throw about. As well, taking the Lotus Cortina as an example, it must have a steel roll cage, proper FIA approved race seat, 6 point harness, possibly HANS device, plumbed in fire extinguisher, Kill switches etc while the driver must have a three layer Nomex suit, modern composite helmet etc. All of which Lotus would have not have in the Cortina when new.

gipi

I recently saw a documentary on BBC about the Le Mans disaster of 1955, when a crash sent a car into the crowd, killing up to 120 spectators (and the driver).

The race continued to the end, because the organisers felt that had they stopped the race there and then, emergency vehicles would have been delayed by the mass exodus of people.

kev1.3s

I think that peoples views on safety have changed over the years, I remember some time ago having a conversation with someone about f1 racing and how dull it has become and his view was that drivers were getting well paid to make an exciting sport for you and me to watch so therefore they should have to except a certain degree of risks and do away with some of the safety regs that have crept in to the sport and motor sport in general! at the time I didn't think too much about it but after seeing some of those horrific incidents there should be no reason in this day and age for people to go out and risk perishing behind the wheel for our enjoyment. I'm sure that David Purley will never forget those final few minutes of Roger Williamson's life. I haven't watched F1 now for an number of seasons as I too find it quite dull now but I'd rather not see a return to those dark days.