Bought Car but history of car not disclosed

morrga

Hi all,

I bought an Audi A4 2007 model last summer after months ofs searching for a status car. No service book came with the car, it was 'lost'. The very reputable garage said there was no history of anything wrong with the car.

I completed a full garda check on car and owner and there was no crash history reported. I handed over 17k. Turns out now a claim was made for flood damage on the car in November 2009. I found out when I was declined motor insurance by a well known firm.

Anyone any thoughts on how to approach this? Particularly interested in claiming back some of the price with a partial cash refund. The car is driving fine but I feel cheated and have paid over the odds for a damaged car.

The garage has now admitted there was flood damage when I followed up with a call this week.

godtabh

why buy a car with unknown history?

morrga

Fair point. I was very wary at the time but after getting two of my colleagues to conduct thorough garda checks and given the reputable nature of the well known garage I took a chance.

partyatmygaff

morrga wrote: »

Hi all,

I bought an Audi A4 2007 model last summer after months ofs searching for a status car.

I lol'd.

Anyway....

I completed a full garda check on car and owner and there was no crash history reported. I handed over 17k. Turns out now a claim was made for flood damage on the car in November 2009. I found out when I was declined motor insurance by a well known firm.

Anyone any thoughts on how to approach this? Particularly interested in claiming back some of the price with a partial cash refund. The car is driving fine but I feel cheated and have paid over the odds for a damaged car.

The garage has now admitted there was flood damage when I followed up with a call this week.

Technically speaking you have the right to a full refund as the Garage had been intentionally dishonest with you and failed to disclose the fact it was flood damaged despite you having having asked for the car's history. You were misled in to accepting a contract of sale and as such the contract is deemed invalid and you could quite realistically demand a refund. Although, there's no real need to do that if you like the car and it has no current issues. You could quite feasibly get a partial cash refund if you tried.

Tea 1000

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Technically speaking you have the right to a full refund as the Garage had been intentionally dishonest with you and failed to disclose the fact it was flood damaged despite you having having asked for the car's history. You were misled in to accepting a contract of sale and as such the contract is deemed invalid and you could quite realistically demand a refund. Although, there's no real need to do that if you like the car and it has no current issues. You could quite feasibly get a partial cash refund if you tried.

I'd go this route, teach the garage a lesson to be honest. Then take your cash refund and buy a car with a more proven history, and you'll have peace of mind.

Satanta

On what grounds were you declined the insurance (are they saying the car isnt safe)?

You need to weigh up how much extra your policy could be year on year because of the flood damage, compared to a partial refund by the garage.

BTW, what status does having an Audi convey? There's about 6 of them parked in front of our offices. Those and the BMW 3 series are the most common cars parked here.

biko

You have the name of the person who told you about the flood damage.
Drive there now and ask to speak him/her. Hand over keys and ask for your money back.
When you show up in person it gives you an advantage.
Not sure how much less you will get back for driving it for a year but it shouldn't be much. They sold it damaged and should suffer for it.

SV

morrga wrote: »

I bought an Audi A4 2007 model last summer after months ofs searching for a status car.

lol, deserved.
Nothing special about an Audi.

partyatmygaff

SV wrote: »

lol, deserved.
Nothing special about an Audi.

Except if it's an RS4, RS6, Vintage Quattro, A8, S8 or R8.

SV

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Except if it's an RS4, RS6, Vintage Quattro, A8, S8 or R8.

Then it's that particular model that's special.
The brand, as a whole, isn't. It's pretty funny to see these people going around thinking they're driving some prestige car in their 1.9tdi A4s. Gotta laugh!.

Also? A8? Nothing special about an A8. Sorry.

partyatmygaff

SV wrote: »

Also? A8? Nothing special about an A8. Sorry.

What about the A8 W12? If that's not a "special" car then you must have insanely high standards.

Tea drinker

SV wrote: »

Then it's that particular model that's special.
The brand, as a whole, isn't. It's pretty funny to see these people going around thinking they're driving some prestige car in their 1.9tdi A4s. Gotta laugh!.

Also? A8? Nothing special about an A8. Sorry.

The quality isn't like it was on VAG and the warranty is simply a joke.
Still, ask anyone which has more prestige, Ford or Audi, what will 90% say?

if the insurance company have a claim on the car why won't they insure?
was it listed as a write off?
Was it not repaired even though they processed the claim - how would this happen? edit I guess they didn't honour the claim.....

morrga

My insurance isnt any more expensive as flood damage claim was not against my policy. It turns out they are now offering me a quote but insurance is not the issue.

Jeez I'm regretting the status comment I take it back, depends on social circumstances I guess and I come from a modest back ground.

Owner of the garage admitted to me that it was flood damaged when I rang him last night. Up to that point they continually told me the car was fine and they knew nothing about previous damage.

I want to keep the car. How much of a partial refund could I expect? Regardless of how long I have had it shouldnt matter as sale of contract is now null and void right? So they can give me a full refund, I hand the car back and I will ensure the car is not sold on again ensuring they have an obsolete asset or they give me a sufficient refund to wash their hands of the matter?

mickdw

If insurer refused cover, I can only assume the car was not intended to be put back on the road at all. If this was the case, that garage must have made an absolute killing on that car as it would have been bought as a breaker only.
The problem with water damage is that it is still likely to be causing unseen damage to electronic control units etc and ma end up costing you in the long term. Stil if all has been well since last summer, it seems reasonably ok. I would go to garage, get a significant portion of the purchase price back and then run with it.

CashMoney

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

skyhighflyer

I would try and deal with the garage if they're willing to deal.

Any hassle from them though and it's solicitor time. 17k is too much to lose.

andyseadog

CashMoney wrote: »

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

yes but people who buy 'status cars' have a bit of a want within themselves.

i buy my cars because i like them, i don't care if its a fiat or a ferrari.

not for what people will think of me/ or how much people will think i earn by owning one which is what i reckon a 'status car' car. thats a bit vain really.

unkel

godtabh wrote: »

why spend several months searching and then spend €17k and buy a car with unknown history?

FYP :eek:

VolvoMan

CashMoney wrote: »

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

There is so much sh1t being spouted on this thread it's unreal.

By the way OP, if there's been flood damage, I'd advise to get shot of it - quickly.

partyatmygaff

CashMoney wrote: »

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

I see the reasoning behind your username...



Anyways, i'm off to go buy an Audi A4 1.6 because buying underpowered poverty spec cars ups my position on the property status ladder...

TestTransmission

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I see the reasoning behind your username...



Anyways, i'm off to go buy an Audi A4 1.6 because buying underpowered poverty spec cars ups my position on the property status ladder...

just wondering but what do u drive?

guil

CashMoney wrote: »

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

lol so do you drive a clapped out 316

lomb

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Except if it's an RS4, RS6, Vintage Quattro, A8, S8 or R8.

Or TT especially the TTS or TTRS

Tea drinker

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Anyways, i'm off to go buy an Audi A4 1.6 because buying underpowered poverty spec cars ups my position on the property status ladder...

Many women will see the Audi badge and offer you teh sex. Seriously though most people glaze over a bit when it comes to little specifics like CC and just make assumptions.
And all mainstream manufacturers have a piece of **** model in their range. And the non mainstream ones like ferarri are just as bad due to the impractilities of such a vehicle for everyday use, not to mention value for money. Horses for courses ymmv etc

Edit BTW OP VAG put a lot of electrics in the floor of the car, comfort control module for leccy windows etc. This can get damaged from flooding, sometimes nees to be rewired due to corroded wiring etc.
Looking forward to that?

kermitpwee

CashMoney wrote: »

Sorry lads, I know it's all relative but an Audi branded car carries more status than a Ford, Nissan, Honda etc. any day of the week. Maybe not amongst the boy racers but in the general population it does. I don't own am Audi by the way, I own another status car (bmw). I'm talking in terms of brand rather than specific models.

Cars dont carry status. You cant buy status. If i drive a ferrari but I'm a drug dealer what type of status do I have?

Now cars can have a percieved image which is a different story.

morrga

I spoke to owner of garage tonight and I told him I want a full refund and I would talk to him in a few days. I'll keep you posted as to what he comes back with.

PS all, less talk of the status and more advice please

mickob16

andyseadog wrote: »

yes but people who buy 'status cars' have a bit of a want within themselves.

i buy my cars because i like them, i don't care if its a fiat or a ferrari.

not for what people will think of me/ or how much people will think i earn by owning one which is what i reckon a 'status car' car. thats a bit vain really.

What a stupid and pointless comment.What exactly is a status car-Merc,BMW,Audi????So what your saying is that all owners of these cars are vain and only buy them to show people what they earn!!Are you saying that if you dont want anyone thinking you "have a bit of a want within yourself" you have to buy a Nissan or a Ford etc.I had an Audi A4 and bought it cos i liked the look of it and now i have a 525 M-Sport which i bought cos it was my dream car.So if i apply your reasoning i must be really vain and want people to know im a high earner!!Did i mention im unemployed:mad::mad::mad:

Tea drinker

morrga wrote: »

I spoke to owner of garage tonight and I told him I want a full refund and I would talk to him in a few days. I'll keep you posted as to what he comes back with.

I think you are 100% right and within your rights to ask for it.

mickob16

Hope it works out for you

Jagle

unless they offer 100% refund id be onto my solicitor about this, complete BS that a reputable company would do this, not on at all, they need to be made example of

seanybiker

Best of luck. May bookmark now to check in and see how ya do.

questionmark?

godtabh wrote: »

why buy a car with unknown history?

A significant portion of the population do due to the tendency of people in this country not asking for garages to stamp their service history or the lack of any receipts due to a lot of work being carried out by people doing nixers.

OP the garage done you over and you are within your rights to ask for a full refund. If they dont play ball get down to a solicitor asap.

acier

morrga wrote: »

getting two of my colleagues to conduct thorough garda checks

What do you mean by this? an admission of abuse of the pulse system I wonder, or do the Gardai now do pre buying checks on used cars?

seanybiker

acier wrote: »

What do you mean by this? an admission of abuse of the pulse system I wonder, or do the Gardai now do pre buying checks on used cars?

I'm sure they hardly gave out details. A simple no history of an accident was probably all she was told.

Esel

morrga wrote: »

I completed a full garda check on car and owner and there was no crash history reported.

morrga wrote: »

I was very wary at the time but after getting two of my colleagues to conduct thorough garda checks.....

I'd say your two colleagues are slightly planking it at this stage.

Nonoperational

Here we go again. People falling over themselves to jump on a throw away comment in the original post. An A4 is a very nice car and for someone with a modest background as the OP says it is a very fine car to have and aspire to. There's always a higher step on the ladder but saving and buying a nice car can be very rewarding.

lomb

lomb wrote: »

Or TT especially the TTS or TTRS

Your TT is defo more than a tad special

morrga

Hi All,

Some of you may be interested to know that after dealing the garage owner they have made an offer to reimburse me €5,000 and offer a one year guarantee on the electrical work of the car.

I have to say the owner of this reputable garage was very decent in his dealing with me and understood and sympathised with my plight. He showed me the original contract of the trade in of my audi from the previous owner which showed he deducted 15,000 from the sale of a brand new 2010 passat at that time i.e. the previous owner never disclosed the history to the garage.

There was no hard bargaining required to get the above offer. Question is should I accept or hold out for more? I originally requested 50% refund on the grounds the car is worth half price as a flood damaged car. Should I get an engineers report to clarify the full extent of the flood damage?

He more or less ruled out the option of a full refund on the grounds I've had it 9 months and clocked up 20,000 km in the mean time.

Any comments/opinions anyone?

Zubeneschamali

morrga wrote: »

they have made an offer to reimburse me €5,000 and offer a one year guarantee on the electrical work of the car.

I'd accept.

mickdw

Good to hear they are playing ball at least. I seriously doubt that the garage wouldnt have known. The damage is recorded against it and if they didnt see fit to check it out, its rather foolish.
Is it possible that this is just a bull**** contract that the dealer is showing you.

I guess you would need to consider what an undamaged version is worth versus what yours is now worth. If you are happy to keep this is the long term and assuming that its reliability holds up, €5,000 cash is probably a reasonable refund. If that was his first offer, push him alittle more too.

Tea 1000

Seeing as A4's are littering the countryside they're so common, surely he has another 07 one in stock? Why not ask for a swap, provided the other one is straight?

Reloc8

Ack, that sucks.

And now the story has changed 'we knew about it/we didn't know about it'

You are entitled to a full refund here but if it goes legal you could be two years getting it, during which time you have to not drive the car, in fact you'll be advised to post the keys back to him with a letter asking him to collect.

Presuming that's unattractive, you can either :-

a) Look for increases on his current offer (both on the cash to you and the warranty period - look for 24 months).

b) Look to get a decent car now at a low price. You give him back the current car (has to be worth a couple of grand to him in some way) and he gives you a comparable car at cost to him less whatever you can negotiate - considerably more than the €5,000 he has on the table currently.

c) Same thing only different. Tell him you'll keep the car for 12 months under his warranty but then you return it and want a car at cost to him, less the above discount even further increased on the basis that you'll give him time and space to accomodate the deal in his cashflow.

Get whatever you agree, if it isn't a straight cash payment, in writing.

Again morally and legally you are entitled to the refund...but I don't think you'll enjoy getting there.

And by the way - I'd be gutted if I was in your shoes - ignore any poxy posts knocking the car and your delight in getting it. I know exactly what it is to save up for a motor you consider desirable and to have it end up like this would be absolutely horrible.

shar01

OP, out of curiosity...

Did the previous owner mention flood damage when you phoned her last June?

poker--addict

Hi,

Following this thread with interest, as found out im in similar situation today.

BTW my car status is not as good as your mate:P lol joke you are correct Audi is a status car and Boards members are just pompus :cool:

Just beware VW family reknowned for electic problems, okay not audi so much but VW are, and now you have water issues that might not show straight away, e.g rust

dharn

just occurred to me that many cars were shown on tv last winter or was it 2 years ago not sure, but anyway going to say shown up to their necks in water flooding in carlow, leixlip etc those cars were probably written off by insurance companies but some are coming back in to the market so people need to be careful buying ...

Guy:Incognito

mickdw wrote: »

. I seriously doubt that the garage wouldnt have known. . .

From the OP:

morrga wrote: »

The garage has now admitted there was flood damage when I followed up with a call this week.

morrga wrote: »

Hi All,

Some of you may be interested to know that after dealing the garage owner they have made an offer to reimburse me €5,000 and offer a one year guarantee on the electrical work of the car.

I have to say the owner of this reputable garage was very decent in his dealing with me and understood and sympathised with my plight. He showed me the original contract of the trade in of my audi from the previous owner which showed he deducted 15,000 from the sale of a brand new 2010 passat at that time i.e. the previous owner never disclosed the history to the garage.

There was no hard bargaining required to get the above offer. Question is should I accept or hold out for more? I originally requested 50% refund on the grounds the car is worth half price as a flood damaged car. Should I get an engineers report to clarify the full extent of the flood damage?

He more or less ruled out the option of a full refund on the grounds I've had it 9 months and clocked up 20,000 km in the mean time.

Any comments/opinions anyone?

While they are being very nice now , they still lied to begin with.Even if, as he says, the original owner never told them, they still never offered the information whenever is was they found out.

morrga

When I spoke to the previous owner he told me the car was perfect and not a thing wrong with it. When I brought it to Audi Ireland last week they told me they'd have never known the car was damaged either through a motor check or after visually checking the car over.

I believe the garage are dealing with me genuinely well and I don't believe the trade in contract was forged. Not in a million years did it look forged. Call me a fool for being gullible but that was my gut instinct.

His first offer was 3k but it didn't take him long to move up to 5. I'm tempted to push for 6. If I get 2 years warranty on the electrics and an engineers report on the car I would be happy. The car has being driving extremely well and fingers crossed that continues.

Matt Simis

How long are you planning on keeping the car? If for 4years or more, take the offer. If less, then dont (change car). It would be a real nightmare trying to sell that car for proper money now that you a) know the damage and b) disclosed it on the internet where it can be proven you now know and must tell prospective buyers.


Incidentially I bought an Audi S8 with no paperwork of any kind (even User guide) but I sure as hell didnt pay close to EUR17k for it, hindsight and all OP, but that was one stupid move.

morrga

I do plan on keeping the car for a few years. Besides who will know that this thread relates to the car when I sell it in a few years time?

Guy:Incognito

morrga wrote: »

I do plan on keeping the car for a few years. Besides who will know that this thread relates to the car when I sell it in a few years time?

Getting all upset at the garage then doing the same thing to someone else is hardly fai now is it?

morrga

I was asking a hypothetical question. I prefer to treat others as they would treat me. At the end of the day I have been caught out here and I only hope the car continues to drive soundly for me.

I accepted the offer of 5k today and a 12 month warranty on the electrics.