Did Enda cost FG an overall majority ?

Voipjunkie

If Richard Bruton been successful in his attempt to remove Kenny would FG been more palatable to the Irish electorate. I have heard so many people say they wouldn't vote FG with Enda in charge.

irishh_bob

Voipjunkie wrote: »

If Richard Bruton been successful in his attempt to remove Kenny would FG been more palatable to the Irish electorate. I have heard so many people say they wouldn't vote FG with Enda in charge.

im not so sure tbh , enda more than likely did cost them seats in dublin though as dublin voters have an inherent bias towards leaders being from the capital

even bruton had been at the helm ( and i dont think the man has any obvious leadership charechteristics btw ) , im not sure fine gael could have gotten an overall majority

fianna fail draw votes from every strand

republican voters
the working class
the wellfare class
the public sector
middle ireland


all theese sections were split between fine gael , labour and sinn fein , add to that , the huge number of independants ( oddball and otherwise ) and thier was only so much to go round , fine gael ran a masterfull campaign in terms of vote managment and all in all having thought long and hard about it , im not sure they could have done any better , had the overwhelming majority of independants not been left wing or hard left , they might have been able to form a goverment without labour but its simply not possible now

opinion guy

There is a combination of reasons why I did not vote for them.
1) Enda
2) they answered "Five point plan" to every question put to them. Honeselty reminded me of the underpants gnomes on South Park...."Step1: Steal underpants!!! Step2:....??????? Step3: Take over the World!!!!". I found it very patronising to me as a voter
3) Their health plan which I believe to be complete fantastical and unachievable
4) Following on from 4 I DO NOT believe that they believe in their own five point plan. It is an election marketing concoction. I don't believe they have any intention of following it through and I expect to see mostly very FF style policies followed with window dressing to make it seem like they are different. (One exception - I do believe they will seek to renegotiate the EU/IMF debt)
5) They let Dr Bill Tormey run for them
6) Enda

listermint

In my opinion yes,

I feel his blatent scripted reaction to questions and details on the 5 point plan, cost FG the overall.

Maybe if he had actually had some crucial understanding of what was in this plan (if there is actually fundamental details at all) this would have pushed more votes FG way.

Killer Pigeon

If ever I were a Blueshirt (which I most certainly am not, being a Labourite) I would support Enda Kenny over Richard Bruton. Richard, like his brother, are hungry for power and that's all. Leaving his relevance for certain ministerial positions aside, I doubt Richard would place the country above his own interests. I would support Enda because he was the one who built up the party after its disastrous 2002 general election when the party elite, including the Brutons & other FG dynasties, placed their heads below the turrets.

It was only after the 2007 general election that these old names (like the Brutons, the Mitchells, etc..) started to come to the fore again in the party, trying to benefit from Enda's gains. I think the public really got a real taste of these bitter, jealous few in the party in 2010 during Enda's leadership challenge - Richard thought he would have everything just handed to him without putting the work in.

I disagree will Enda on ideological grounds but whatever people say about him I certainly commend his hard working nature. He may not be as well spoken as many others in the party but he is a leader nontheless. He is the right person to lead and govern his party and he deserves it.

I honestly don't believe that Richard would have brought Fine Gael to a position that would be any better than it is today.

Colm R

I'm not so sure.

Possibly cost seats in Dublin.

But I don't think for one second that Bruton would have worked on the campaign trail as hard as Kenny. For years now, Enda has been up and down the country, attending town halls, meetings and getting the party working. I really could not have seen Bruton doing that.

Like Fianna Fail, Fine Gael have a core support, albeit much smaller. Enda ensured almost all of them voted last Friday.

All in all, we'll never know.

gandalf

On reflection no I don't think so. FG's vote management was excellent and Enda has to be credited with creating the mechanisms to allow that to come to fruition. Also this was FG's best election tally ever!

When I see that I do not think anyone else at the helm would have done better. I still don't like Enda as leader and sure I would prefer someone more charismatic but I temper that with look what happened to us as a country with the so-called charismatic Bertie Ahern in charge (although I never saw how people considered him a good leader or charismatic!).

Fr Tod Umptious

Have a look at the RTE exit poll

Only 7% of thoes polled said that the choice of Taoiseach was a factor in their voting.

Based on that Kenny was much less of a factor in this election than some people like to think.

loldog

It's Ireland's slow move to the left that cost him an overall majority.

.

Denerick

Enda probably gained FG a few seats out in the boglands, particularly out west. I doubt Bruton would have picked up any extra in Dublin. All in all, he was probably good for FG. He helped them shore up their rural base. Dublin looks like it will be Labour's for the forseeable future at any rate.

Ruire

loldog wrote: »

It's Ireland's slow move to the left that cost him an overall majority.

.

And yet allowed him to surpass Garret Fitzgerald and Social Justice Fine Gael's 70 seats.

Maj Malfunction

Denerick wrote: »

Dublin looks like it will be Labour's for the forseeable future at any rate.

I thought that this was interesting to see the capital swing from centre-right to centre-left.

Richard Bruton I think would be a better alternative than Enda Kenny. My conclusion is that the middle classes in Dublin would rather see someone from the city in charge (Gilmore) than a man from the West of Ireland (Kenny). I think people just don't take Enda seriously.

Alot of the public/civil service is based in Dublin too so voting to shoot yourself in the foot wouldn't make much sense!

aidan24326

opinion guy wrote: »

2) they answered "Five point plan" to every question put to them. Honeselty reminded me of the underpants gnomes on South Park...."Step1: Steal underpants!!! Step2:....??????? Step3: Take over the World!!!!". I found it very patronising to me as a voter

This was annoying alright, because it was so obviously just an election gimmick, the usual soundbyte rubbish that parties always come up with at election time. Anyone who at this stage believes any of the pre-election promises that parties make is very easily fooled. All parties here and certainly in the UK aswell have consistently shown that pre-election promises are quickly forgotten once they get their overpaid arses into the seat.

All in all I think FG maximised their vote so and I don't think they were ever going to get an overall majority, and it's for the better that they didn't too. Their past record in government does not fill me with joy at the thought of them being in power at all let alone going in by themselves. At least Labour bring an alternative voice to the table, even they haven't exactly been covering themselves in glory of late.

Gael23

Yes, I believe he did. When I was canvassing, many people said they wont vote FG because of him

jmayo

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

If I ever I were a Blueshirt (which I most certainly am not being a Labourite) I would support Enda Kenny over Richard Bruton. Richard, like his brother, are hungry for power and that's all. Leaving his relevance for certain ministerial positions aside, I doubt Richard would place the country above his own interests. I would support Enda because he was the one who built up the party after its disastrous 2002 general election when the party elite, including the Brutons & other FG dynasties, placed their heads below the turrets.

It was only after the 2007 general election that these old names (like the Brutons, the Mitchells, etc..) started to come to the fore again in the party, trying to benefit from Enda's gains. I think the public really got a real taste of these bitter, jealous few in the party in 2010 during Enda's leadership challenge - Richard thought he would have everything just handed to him without putting the work in.

I disagree will Enda on ideological grounds but whatever people say about him I certainly commend his hard working nature. He may not be as well spoken as many others in the party but he is a leader nontheless. He is the right person to lead and govern his party and he deserves it.

I honestly don't believe that Richard would have brought Fine Gael to a position that would be any better than it is today.

For once I agree with you.
R Bruton, probably spurred on by big brother, thought he just had to announce he wanted to be leader and it would be handed to him.
What he, and the other so called leading lights of the party forgot, is Kenny is not the fool everyone thinks he is.

People say Kenny has no charisma or people skills, well they should meet Bruton.

Denerick wrote: »

Enda probably gained FG a few seats out in the boglands, particularly out west. I doubt Bruton would have picked up any extra in Dublin. All in all, he was probably good for FG. He helped them shore up their rural base. Dublin looks like it will be Labour's for the forseeable future at any rate.

Just remember where your gas and water will be coming from.
Also what part of the country elected such wonders as haughey, lawlor, burke, ahern again ?
Isn't it comforting to see in some Dublin areas they still believe in fairytales.
Otherwise why would they vote for the parties that claim we can spend like 2007 even though our revenues are like those from 2001 ?

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

I thought that this was interesting to see the capital swing from centre-right to centre-left.

Richard Bruton I think would be a better alternative than Enda Kenny. My conclusion is that the middle classes in Dublin would rather see someone from the city in charge (Gilmore) than a man from the West of Ireland (Kenny). I think people just don't take Enda seriously.

Ehh Maj, Gilmore is from Galway originally.
And if Rabitte is made Minister of finance then the toaiseach and most powerful minister in the country are from Mayo.
Sweet ehhh.

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

Alot of the public/civil service is based in Dublin too so voting to shoot yourself in the foot wouldn't make much sense!

Best summary as to why Labour did so well in the capital.

Denerick

jmayo wrote: »

Isn't it comforting to see in some Dublin areas they still believe in fairytales.

I live, was reared, and work in the border area.

Tim Robbins

Voipjunkie wrote: »

If Richard Bruton been successful in his attempt to remove Kenny would FG been more palatable to the Irish electorate. I have heard so many people say they wouldn't vote FG with Enda in charge.

He might have got them one or two more seats in Dublin. But he wouldn't have got them four in Mayo.

You need to think what constituencies were FG short by a few where Richard Bruton would have got the seat for them?

The bogger areas probably prefer Kenny.

FG did fairly well in most Dublin constituencies. Bruton wouldn't have got them any more Dublin North. Dublin South, Dublin South East and then other constituencies such as Dublin West they wouldn't have got another seat even if Obama was leader.

Amtmann

During the halcyon days of the boom, even Ahern, much loved at the time, failed to secure an OM for Fianna Fáil.