toilet cistern not filling

DeDoc

I have a relatively new (2 years) old toilet with a dual flush push button system. Occasionally I have had an issue with the cistern not refilling after a flush. However, typically if I pressed the flush button several times it would start to refill. Being a busy sort of chap I resolved to 'look at it later' :rolleyes: as it wasn't a source of major inconvenience.

More recently I've noticed water running down into the bowl, so i resolved to look at the issue. I took off the cistern lid and poked around but couldn't make much sense of the workings - all the valves etc seem to be well hidden inside the plastic fittings and the way to remove them for inspection didn't seem obvious.

Two days ago the cistern stopped filling completely and no amount of button-jiggling (bar one or two occasions) seems to bring it back.

The unit is a Macdee AFV40100 flush valve - I can't see any markings on the inlet side, so I don't know who the manufacturer of that is - I assume the same. The button mechanism itself seems to be ok, as as long as there is water in the cistern (e.g. after manually filling it) it'll flush correctly. The toilet unit (and indeed the tank in the attic) were B&Q fittings organised through one of their stores.

I've looked around t'internet and it would seem the water running would be down to a problem with the flush valve. Would this also stop the cistern filling, or is that the inlet?

I can't see any obvious way of removing the flush valve (unles I need to remove the cistern first?). Any suggestions gratefully appreciated.

Joey the lips

Phone MT AGENCIES in finglas and ask them for your nearest agent for the Aquasave bottom entry inlet valve low pressure.

Its most likely this. If its flowing into the bowl then your siophan might be gone as well

Then consider phoning Excel industries in coolmine and asking them for there nearest customer so you can get

Wirquin( prenounced Wir Quinn) bottom entry cistern pack push button. In which case the pack will contain enough to do a complete refit.

If you need info on fitting just ask.

ps: B&Q fittings are generally high pressure...Thats why they are cheap. Irish market(unless your in an apartment) requires low pressure.

DeDoc

Hi Joey - thanks for the prompt feedback

just to be clear - I need both packs to do a complete refit?

I'm not in an apartment, which would explain why the cistern was always slow to fill - i.e. it was expecting high pressure intake.

regarding fitting I assume I need to turn off the water - do I have to turn off the stopcock under the sink and then drain the attic tank (e.g. running the taps)? Or is there a valve somewhere that can be closed more conveniently. Any particular tools I'd need, or 'top tips' for things to make sure I do (or don't do!).

Thanks again

Joey the lips

DeDoc wrote: »

Hi Joey - thanks for the prompt feedback

just to be clear - I need both packs to do a complete refit?

I'm not in an apartment, which would explain why the cistern was always slow to fill - i.e. it was expecting high pressure intake.

regarding fitting I assume I need to turn off the water - do I have to turn off the stopcock under the sink and then drain the attic tank (e.g. running the taps)? Or is there a valve somewhere that can be closed more conveniently. Any particular tools I'd need, or 'top tips' for things to make sure I do (or don't do!).

Thanks again

The wiquin one will do the whole lot. You can turn the water off from the hot press. Its only the cold you need to off. Just make sure you dont turn every red wheel in the hot press and unbalance your heating. The wheel you are looking for is located about shoulder height above the copper cylider. There is usually 2 together. You just need to cold.

Sometimes even when these wheels are turned off they still weep. If you are lucky enough to have a downstairs toilet then shove a half empty toilet roll under the lever to keep it open on cold. It stops the valve leaking through the fittings while you are doing.(provided its an upstairs toilet you are repairing.)

Tools you will need.....

Meh 2 medium adjustable spanners. 1/2" 310 the nuts and rings work out cheaper.

Length of pex and pex inserts.

Just incase you need to re run fittings

I usually use flexi hose with an iso valve and put the end of the hose with the washer onto the cistern fitting. That way i just need to connect back to the existing copper which usually only involves

A pex insert
Brass nut 1/2"
Brass olive

DeDoc

Thanks again for this Joey

I'm afraid some of it went over my head!

Re the hotpress - are there multiple red wheels. How do I know which is cold?

what does "1/2" 310 the nuts and rings work out cheaper" mean?

what are 'pex' and pex inserts?

DeDoc

just been fiddling around with the cistern again and it seems to have filled up - I also can't see any sign of water running into the bowl!

I gave the flush valve unit a twist clockwise (From top) and it seemed to click - could it be that it wasn't seated right and this was allowing water through?

Cistern seems to be filling ok now too. Could it have been so simple :eek:

I poker around in the hotpress with what you said in mind. I can see two wheels, plus a nut that looks like it might have been associated with a third. There is one red wheel on a pipe connected to the bottom of the tank, and another (red also) on one at around shoulder height. The nut I referred to is on another pipe level with this second wheel

DeDoc

Answer: No

Cistern empty this morning and still water running into the bowl. I guess its a bit of diy this weekend

Next job - try and figure out how these units can be disconnected from the cistern - can't see any obvious way to do it yet.

Joey the lips

DeDoc wrote: »

Answer: No

Cistern empty this morning and still water running into the bowl. I guess its a bit of diy this weekend

Next job - try and figure out how these units can be disconnected from the cistern - can't see any obvious way to do it yet.

The numbers are fitting. Go into a plumbing shop they will show you.

As for taking the cistern off. There is 2 wing nuts under the cistern you unscrew this. When you pop the cistern off the nut to take the fittings out is under it.

Make sure the water is off.

DeDoc

Many thanks once again Joey!

I expected to find wing-nuts - as on my old toilet, but I can't find any. The bowl unit appears to be completely smooth with the exception of one hole on the left hand side. Because of where it is, I can't see in. I've got two fingers in to the knuckle (oooh errr missus!) but I can't feel anything. The cistern sits flush on the base unit.

Inside the bowl there is a hex-head stainless bolt on a stainless washer, which in turn is on top of a rubber washer. I can't imagine the bolt is threaded into the bowl directly though - is there a plastic fitting glued to the base unit perhaps?

The toilet unit is the B&Q 'Barcelona' model if that helps

http://reviews.diy.com/2191-en_gb/10797539/reviews.htm

Joey the lips

Keep on looking. They are there. Come up from the soil pipe and left or right.

DeDoc

if they're there I can't find them Joey

here is a pic from the (left) side: (bathroom 005.jpg)

and then looking underneath from the left: (bathroom 006.jpg)

and then looking underneath from the right: (bathroom 007.jpg)

the only mechanism I can see for attachment is shown in the pic below (it is a stainless hex head bolt on a stainless washer with a rubber washer underneath

(bathroom 010.jpg)

Joey the lips

See the bottom picture. The nut between the syphon and inlet valve is a wing nut. Have a look where this is joined underneath. There should be 2 off them.

where do you live... I dont need an exact address. Just wondered if i ever pass

DeDoc

Hi Joey

I really appreciate your patience on this!
there are indeed two bolts - but as you'll see on the other photos, there is no access to the other side of them. Is it possible that there is a cast recess in the bowl into which a nut sits, so that the cistern can be attached/detached purely from above?

I'm in the Dublin 16/Ballyboden area.

Joey the lips

DeDoc wrote: »

Hi Joey

I really appreciate your patience on this!
there are indeed two bolts - but as you'll see on the other photos, there is no access to the other side of them. Is it possible that there is a cast recess in the bowl into which a nut sits, so that the cistern can be attached/detached purely from above?

I'm in the Dublin 16/Ballyboden area.

No there is nothing in the bowl. The only thing you can really do is take out the water undo the bolts from the inside and see where they fall away from. As the fitting pack is standard it will come with more bolts.

All macdee fitting packs are standard and i just looked up the macdee website that is def fit underneath the cistern so it was to come off some way.

The photos are a bit close in some cases can you possibly take more a little further back.

Ballyboden is too far for a northsider sorry