Should Ireland get off the fence and join NATO?

bobblepuzzle

Whats your view on this?

Do you believe it's time Ireland stood up for intervention were it is legitimate and wholly justifiable? The previous interventions in Bosnia & Kosovo/Serbia for example. While Irish peacekeepers with the UN should be lauded, the UN seems utterly inept at such interventions

c_man

Barring everything else, our armed forces are in such a state that NATO wouldn't have us.




We should deffo sign an alliance with Iceland and jointly invade Rockall though.

galwayrush

I imagine there's a minimun hearing standard required.

UsernameInUse

Absolutely not.

Anti-War to the very end.

whiteonion

No, we should not intervene in other conflicts around the world. I believe in "The prime directive".

dizzywizlw

No, by positioning ourselves within the EU security architecture we are in a safe position without the danger of the United States.

Captain_Generic

whiteonion wrote: »

No, we should not intervene in other conflicts around the world. I believe in "The prime directive".

There's a reason all the best captains disregarded it from time to time!

bluto63

No, we're neutral. I'd see NATO as compromising that.

Daegerty

We have enough on our collective plate. Its not like joining will clear our debt

Pauleta

Would of loved to see us join the war on terror in our peak years financially but we cant afford it at the moment. People seem to think its extremists V Nato but really its extremists versus Freedom and democracy.

Snakeblood

Captain_Generic wrote: »

There's a reason all the best captains disregarded it from time to time!

It made for boring television?*


*For this one has to assume that Star Trek was ever good television.

Chaotic_Forces

Captain_Generic wrote: »

There's a reason all the best captains disregarded it from time to time!

Janeway was far from a good captain.

DonJose

With the compensation culture we have, other armies wouldn't dare shoot our soldiers Boo hoo, the cannons are very very loud

bobblepuzzle

bluto63 wrote: »

No, we're neutral. I'd see NATO as compromising that.

You do relise we aren't really neutral yeh?

bobblepuzzle

whiteonion wrote: »

No, we should not intervene in other conflicts around the world. I believe in "The prime directive".

Even cases of genocide etc? Do you really think that?

Colinoneill

c_man wrote: »

Barring everything else, our armed forces are in such a state that NATO wouldn't have us.

Our armed forces are actally well skilled and specialised. The ranger wing has beaten all other special forces in war games in the last 5 years.

Cathaoirleach

bluto63 wrote: »

No, we're neutral.

Ireland lost its neutrality when Fianna Fáil permitted the US to use Shannon for transporting soldiers and weapons that went on to murder thousands of Iraqi civilians. Shannon was also used for transporting prisoners to Guantanamo.

I find the whole Irish neutrality thing laughable to be honest.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/wikileaks.html

Captain_Generic

Chaotic_Forces wrote: »

Janeway was far from a good captain.

Thats because she is a woman and her place is in kitchen/mess

Chaotic_Forces

Captain_Generic wrote: »

Thats because she is a woman and her place is in kitchen/mess

I wouldn't see you saying that to B'elanna

bobblepuzzle

The whole neutral mumbo jumbo gos back to De Valera, it was rediculous that we were neutral in WW2, the Irish sitting on the fence when Irelands very existence was at stake... but no, at that time we prefered the British and Americans to do the dirty work... didn't win us good standing in the international community for the next decade and rightly so

Benny-c

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

Whats your view on this?

Do you believe it's time Ireland stood up for intervention were it is legitimate and wholly justifiable? The previous interventions in Bosnia & Kosovo/Serbia for example. While Irish peacekeepers with the UN should be lauded, the UN seems utterly inept at such interventions

OP this thread is like a 'call to arms'(no pun intended:D) to all the Shinners/Lefties/SWP/Greens (yawn) on Boards which is inhabited permanently by the SF press office:rolleyes:

wolfpawnat

Benny-c wrote: »

OP this thread is like a 'call to arms'(no pun intended:D) to all the Shinners/Lefties/SWP/Greens (yawn) on Boards which is inhabited permanently by the SF press office:rolleyes:

I would well imagine the SF press office has far more pressing matters than an internet forum that is usually populated by bored office workers, stay at home mums and teenagers.

On the OT, no, our naval ships are a joke, they age from 44 to 10 years old with minimal fire power!

Manic Moran

Colinoneill wrote: »

Our armed forces are actally well skilled and specialised.

A little too specialised.

The ranger wing has beaten all other special forces in war games in the last 5 years.

You mean the ones who showed up because they weren't off fighting real wars?

Janeway was far from a good captain.

OK. "All the best captains, and a few of the bad ones"

Ireland lost its neutrality when Fianna Fáil permitted the US to use Shannon for transporting soldiers and weapons that went on to murder thousands of Iraqi civilians.

Despite the already-mentioned fact that Ireland is not neutral and hasn't been for decades, if ever, 'neutrality' is pretty much defined by 'not taking sides'. When it comes to air transit, Ireland has not shown any inclination to favour any one country passing through over another. (Actually, if the wikileaks cables are to be taken at face value, the US felt it might be being discriminated against.

NTM

Badgermonkey

bluto63 wrote: »

No, we're neutral. I'd see NATO as compromising that.

No, we pretend we are.

Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Bullseye1

I would have no problem with us being part of an EU force but not NATO which is a mouthpiece for US policy in Europe and Western Asia.

pablomakaveli

We'd probably only end up with US bases in our country if we joined NATO so no. I think we should get more involved in EU forces though.

RMD

Colinoneill wrote: »

Our armed forces are actally well skilled and specialised. The ranger wing has beaten all other special forces in war games in the last 5 years.

That happened once in 2003 and has become some Urban myth since then whereby we demolished every force known to man type crap. Considering no North American team or British team was in attendance, we didn't have to much competition. The competition this rumour stemmed from only takes place once every 4 years, it's run by GS9.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-3411.html

I'm not belittling the ARW, they're a great group and very effective, but saying we're world leaders in SF is just stupid to be quite honest. If we were, every country involved in the Middle East would be making pleas left right and center for the ARW to be involved and training their own SFs.

Bullseye1

pablomakaveli wrote: »

We'd probably only end up with US bases in our country if we joined NATO so no. I think we should get more involved in EU forces though.

Actually i think we should lease Shannon Airport and one of our ports out to the US military. Bring in a few billion a year. And can you imagine the infrastructure and business that would grow up and around those bases.

galwayrush

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Actually i think we should lease Shannon Airport and one of our ports out to the US military. Bring in a few billion a year. And can you imagine the infrastructure and business that would grow up and around those bases.

They can have Galway Knock and Sligo airports as well, jobs, infrastructure, West coast from Limerick up would be transformed.

Vicxas

I dont feel like going to war every time David Cameron feels like his balls are shrinking.

Wile E. Coyote

Daegerty wrote: »

We have enough on our collective plate. Its not like joining will clear our debt

Why does every discussion now lead back to the countries debt? It's getting worse than Godwins Law. Should we name it Cowens Law?

Fratton Fred

Vicxas wrote: »

I dont feel like going to war every time David Cameron feels like his balls are shrinking.

How many wars have NATO been involved in that are contrary to Irish policy?

Sunnyisland

bobble puzzle wrote: »

Whats your view on this?

Do you believe it's time Ireland stood up for intervention were it is legitimate and wholly justifiable? The previous interventions in Bosnia & Kosovo/Serbia for example. While Irish peacekeepers with the UN should be lauded, the UN seems utterly inept at such interventions

Yep i think we should play our part in defending europe & our allies,we are not to shy to ask when we are looking for help whether it be financially or military,ie coast guard help from the RN,and personally i think we are only neutral in name only,we were definitely on the side of the british & usa in ww2,we allow usaf planes to land at shannon without proper inspections and it is also was known for military planes from the old ussr to land there on there way to cuba.and i am sure there are lots of other little military games(making parts for missiles etc) we get up to with no one batting an eyelid.So why not make it official and stand up like a proper country.

Bullseye1

galwayrush wrote: »

They can have Galway Knock and Sligo airports as well, jobs, infrastructure, West coast from Limerick up would be transformed.

The West's time has arrived.

PeterIanStaker

NATO is a bit out of date really, it was set up to counter Soviet Russia during the Cold War.
Maybe a new type of alliance is needed to counteract piracy, Islamic fundamentalism and nuclear proliferation?

Don't forget Ireland has provided internationally recognised peacekeepers for five decades.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Well we work alongside the Brits and Americans in The Balkans and Afghanistan.

We buy our ammunition, kevlar combat helmets and flakkers from Israel.

We first served in Chad as part of an EUFOR mission.

We're a contributing nation to the Nordic Battle Group.

Sure we're a grand little neutrality altogether.

bluto63

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

You do relise we aren't really neutral yeh?

Continuing to do business with a country is hardly defying our neutrality. Just because we let Americans pass through our country doesn't mean that we're completely on their side. It's just good business.

enda1

I thought we were constitutionally forbidden from forming anything but a defence forces. So since NATO participates in offensive actions, we couldn't join them.

Bullseye1

Why haven't we gotten into the weapons manufacturing business. Seems like a good earner:D

johnmcdnl

why the **** would we need to join NATO

what would we get out of it with our huge amazing defense forces that we can't afford to expand anyways so I'm sure all 100 soldiers that we can spare will help so much

as well as making Ireland a target for terrorists if the NATO forces go into any middle eastern country to help out...

just like the Swedish bombings last year

Fratton Fred

johnmcdnl wrote: »

why the **** would we need to join NATO

what would we get out of it with our huge amazing defense forces that we can't afford to expand anyways so I'm sure all 100 soldiers that we can spare will help so much

as well as making Ireland a target for terrorists if the NATO forces go into any middle eastern country to help out...

just like the Swedish bombings last year

You mean if Ireland sent an IED team to Afghanistan, for example

krissovo

Ireland is not "Neutral" in the true sense of neutrality, the state has a policy of non alliance.

Ireland is located in such a global strategic position that there is no need to join an alliance as a stable neighbor is critical to the defense of UK and Western Europe and to the US. In the event of any threat to the state both the UK and US will be over like shot to clear up any issues. Maybe a better question is should we join the Collective Security Treaty Organisation?

Sticky_Fingers

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

The whole neutral mumbo jumbo gos back to De Valera, it was rediculous that we were neutral in WW2, the Irish sitting on the fence when Irelands very existence was at stake... but no, at that time we prefered the British and Americans to do the dirty work... didn't win us good standing in the international community for the next decade and rightly so

Or you could take the other view that we were a very young republic that had just emerged from a costly civil war and that entering into any overt military alliance with the "old enemy" who were still in control of the North of the country would have more than likely have kicked off the war once again since tensions between pro/anti treaty sides was still extremely high.

I despise De Valera and all he stood for but I agree with the position he took regarding our involvement in the war and have a grudging respect or him that he had the courage of his convictions to tough it out until the bitter end while many formerly neutral countries were rushing to jump on the Allied bandwagon once Germanys defeat was assured.

We paid the price in the following years but I think it was the right thing to do.

Mark200

I think the 'neutrality' thing is pointless, but joining NATO isn't the solution either. They're a military alliance - which we don't need to be in one. We shouldn't be signing pacts to go into war before we know the full situation. But we also shouldn't turn a blind eye when genocide is occurring in other countries.