Fishing Discards to be Ended?

mike65

Finally! One of the most misbegotten agri/fishing polices is to end by the looks of it. Some of the usual BS horse-trading to come first of course.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/01/eu-ban-fish-discards

As much as two-thirds of the fish caught in some areas is thrown back into the water, usually dead, as a result of the current EU system of fishing quotas. When fishing fleets exceed their quota, or unintentionally catch species for which they do not have a quota, they must discard the excess at sea. About 1m tonnes are estimated to be thrown back each year into the North Sea alone.

the_syco

So... no max quota? Take whatever you want?

SeanW

the_syco wrote: »

So... no max quota? Take whatever you want?

I imagine they're working on a policy superior to the current "throw dead-unintended catch back in." Perhaps (if this is not the case already) fishers will be allowed to "advance" on future quotas, e.g. catch Y over quota this time, next time your qouta is X-Y. Though I'm not that familiar with it.

Macha

One of the best solution's proposed is restricting access to environmentally friendly fishing boats, in other words, boats that are energy efficient, use passive gear etc.

It would create the right market incentives for sustainable fisheries.

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

One of the best solution's proposed is restricting access to environmentally friendly fishing boats, in other words, boats that are energy efficient, use passive gear etc.

It would create the right market incentives for sustainable fisheries.

Surely fish farms would be more effective in creating sustainable fisheries? The enormous bureaucratic waste of millions of tons of fish, where the EU makes fishermen throw back perfectly good dead fish into the sea, has been a scandal and a blot on the EU.

Ireland once had the richest herring fisheries in the world, but they were all fished out in a mini economic boom along the western seaboard.

The only real way to preserve fish is to farm fish.

Macha

edwinkane wrote: »

Surely fish farms would be more effective in creating sustainable fisheries? The enormous bureaucratic waste of millions of tons of fish, where the EU makes fishermen throw back perfectly good dead fish into the sea, has been a scandal and a blot on the EU.

Ireland once had the richest herring fisheries in the world, but they were all fished out in a mini economic boom along the western seaboard.

The only real way to preserve fish is to farm fish.

Not at all. Fish farms actually consume more fish than they produce. They're completely unsustainable.

Feargal as Luimneach

edwinkane wrote: »

Surely fish farms would be more effective in creating sustainable fisheries? The enormous bureaucratic waste of millions of tons of fish, where the EU makes fishermen throw back perfectly good dead fish into the sea, has been a scandal and a blot on the EU.

Ireland once had the richest herring fisheries in the world, but they were all fished out in a mini economic boom along the western seaboard.

The only real way to preserve fish is to farm fish.

Farming fish such as salmon, does not necessarily reduce pressure on wild fisheries, since carnivorous farmed fish are usually feed fishmeal and fish oil extracted from wild fish. In this way, the salmon can consume in weight more wild fish that they weigh themselves..

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

Not at all. Fish farms actually consume more fish than they produce. They're completely unsustainable.

If fish farms consumed more fish then they produce, they would obviously be bankrupt in a week. Fish farming happens all around the world. I know a fishfarm near Bennetsbridge which has been there for years, and if the owners had to consume more fish than they produce, they would have been bankrupted years ago.

Fish farming is viable by the very evidence that there are fish farms all over the world.

Fishing by trawling the seas for fish reduces the numbers of fish available and, as in the case of herring off the west coast of ireland, can lead to destroying whole species.

edwinkane

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Farming fish such as salmon, does not necessarily reduce pressure on wild fisheries, since carnivorous farmed fish are usually feed fishmeal and fish oil extracted from wild fish. In this way, the salmon can consume in weight more wild fish that they weigh themselves..

Thats interesting. Salmon is, by now, one of the cheapest fishes available, so how the economics of that work I am not sure. But they do seem to work as salmon farming is a thriving industry in Ireland.

Of course farming fish is not problem free, but it does seem to be one way of reducing the dependence on dwindling stocks in our oceans.

Macha

edwinkane wrote: »

If fish farms consumed more fish then they produce, they would obviously be bankrupt in a week. Fish farming happens all around the world. I know a fishfarm near Bennetsbridge which has been there for years, and if the owners had to consume more fish than they produce, they would have been bankrupted years ago.

Fish farming is viable by the very evidence that there are fish farms all over the world.

Fishing by trawling the seas for fish reduces the numbers of fish available and, as in the case of herring off the west coast of ireland, can lead to destroying whole species.

Not at all. The value of the fish they use as feed is less than what they sell the end product for. That's how they stay afloat financially in the short term but it doesn't mean they are sustainable.

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

Not at all. The value of the fish they use as feed is less than what they sell the end product for. That's how they stay afloat financially in the short term but it doesn't mean they are sustainable.

"Writing in the June 29 issue of the journal Nature, economist Rosamond L. Naylor and biologist Harold A. Mooney, point out that, "on balance, global aquaculture still adds to world fish supplies."

But, they warn, the growing demand for farm-raised salmon, shrimp and other commercially valuable species actually threatens the world's supply of fish.

The "underlying paradox," write the authors, is that "aquaculture is a possible solution * but also a contributing factor * to the collapse of fisheries stocks around the world."

Of course every solution gives us new problems, and while aquaculture (an alternative name for fish farming) is not a perfect solution by a long chalk, these guys seem to think that, on balance, its adds to world fish supplies but also is a contributing factor to the collapse of fisheries stocks.

Nothing is ever simple anymore!

I'm fascinate to learn just what we feed trout, salmon, mussels and other fish which are farmed, and looking on the interweb it's hard to find out the constituents of the various fish feeds available such are on the Puerina site http://www.fishchow.com/

Macha

edwinkane wrote: »

"Writing in the June 29 issue of the journal Nature, economist Rosamond L. Naylor and biologist Harold A. Mooney, point out that, "on balance, global aquaculture still adds to world fish supplies."

But, they warn, the growing demand for farm-raised salmon, shrimp and other commercially valuable species actually threatens the world's supply of fish.

The "underlying paradox," write the authors, is that "aquaculture is a possible solution * but also a contributing factor * to the collapse of fisheries stocks around the world."

Of course every solution gives us new problems, and while aquaculture (an alternative name for fish farming) is not a perfect solution by a long chalk, these guys seem to think that, on balance, its adds to world fish supplies but also is a contributing factor to the collapse of fisheries stocks.

Nothing is ever simple anymore!

I'm fascinate to learn just what we feed trout, salmon, mussels and other fish which are farmed, and looking on the interweb it's hard to find out the constituents of the various fish feeds available such are on the Puerina site http://www.fishchow.com/

That doesn't even include other considerations like the increases in sea lice and other parasites that fish farms can spread. Plus their interactions with wild species can cause issues.

This is far from a simple issue.

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

That doesn't even include other considerations like the increases in sea lice and other parasites that fish farms can spread. Plus their interactions with wild species can cause issues.

This is far from a simple issue.

Of course, every solution causes other problems. But, equally, we can't keep on fishing in the oceans at the same rate otherwise we'll soon have no fish left in the oceans.

djpbarry

Macha wrote: »

Not at all. Fish farms actually consume more fish than they produce. They're completely unsustainable.

Is it fundamentally unsustainable or just unsustainable in its current form?

Macha

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it fundamentally unsustainable or just unsustainable in its current form?

Not sure to be honest. But there are some things it's hard to get away from, like the parasites and how they impact on wild species.

Feeding wild caught fish to farmed fish is just a recipe for disaster as far as I can see. The problem is that there are very few large species left or larger specimens of other species. So we fish the smaller ones and feed them to farmed fish. What further degrading effect do you think that has on the eco-system? It's a disaster.

Then of course you have to look at the wide range of fish and shellfish. Mussels are very sustainably farmed around the world.

But if you look at the Marine Stewardship Council, the main seafood sustainability certification scheme, they have repeatedly declared that they will not get involved in the certification of aquaculture.

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

Not sure to be honest. But there are some things it's hard to get away from, like the parasites and how they impact on wild species.

Feeding wild caught fish to farmed fish is just a recipe for disaster as far as I can see. The problem is that there are very few large species left or larger specimens of other species. So we fish the smaller ones and feed them to farmed fish. What further degrading effect do you think that has on the eco-system? It's a disaster.

Then of course you have to look at the wide range of fish and shellfish. Mussels are very sustainably farmed around the world.

But if you look at the Marine Stewardship Council, the main seafood sustainability certification scheme, they have repeatedly declared that they will not get involved in the certification of aquaculture.

What I was looking for was the ingredients in fish food, to see if all farmed fish are fed fish, as I find that hard to believe, although possible, but I can't find ingredients anywhere.

CJhaughey

You won't find the ingredients, they are proprietary.
The main constituents are usually small pelagics, Capelin, Sprat, and similar.
The whole problem with the MSC is that while the principle is in essence good, the way in which it is conducted is geared towards large single species operations.
So while a factory trawler operator can afford to pay for the MSC process small inshore vessels by virtue of the fact that they operate in a mixed species fishery cannot apply or even afford to pay for certification.
There are more certification schemes than just the MSC but the MSC is run by big business for big business.
Have a look at the likes of Lidl fish, most of it is certified by MSC then shipped halfway around the world is that sustainable?
Why eat Alaskan Pollock when we have good supplies of European Pollock here? Lots of small vessels fish Pollock with hook and line but they will never see an MSC due to the inordinate costs involved in the process.
I am in favour of sustainable fishing( who wouldn't be) but the way it is being sold is a bit of a con IMO.
There have been mutterings about discards for a long time now the fundamental issue is the actual CFP.

edwinkane

One of the greatest scandals of the EU has been its fisheries policy, which results in millions of perfectly good fish being thrown back, dead, into the seas around Europe.

I'm sure there must be other ways to farm fish, rather than just feeding all farmed fish other fish. But I am having problems tracking them down...

Macha

edwinkane wrote: »

I'm sure there must be other ways to farm fish, rather than just feeding all farmed fish other fish. But I am having problems tracking them down...

There are but, as I said, there are other issues to be considered and any solution is probably species-specific.

I think we've already established that the CFP has failed.

edwinkane

Macha wrote: »

There are but, as I said, there are other issues to be considered and any solution is probably species-specific.

I think we've already established that the CFP has failed.

Every solution brings new problems, thats generally true. Parasites, for example, can be fairly well controlled in salmon cages in the sea, by chemicals.

djpbarry

Macha wrote: »

Feeding wild caught fish to farmed fish is just a recipe for disaster as far as I can see. The problem is that there are very few large species left or larger specimens of other species. So we fish the smaller ones and feed them to farmed fish. What further degrading effect do you think that has on the eco-system? It's a disaster.

Sounds like a job for biotechnology! Any enterprising groups/individuals looking at producing bio-synthetic feeds for fish farms? Ireland could fish-feed its way to economic recovery.

Macha

djpbarry wrote: »

Sounds like a job for biotechnology! Any enterprising groups/individuals looking at producing bio-synthetic feeds for fish farms? Ireland could fish-feed its way to economic recovery.

It could certainly help. But as with grain-fed herbivores, I'm not sure what quality the end-product would be versus wild.

CJhaughey

Some farms are mixing seaweed in with the feed, and I know that Soya is being used in fishfeeds in other countries. Whether it is GM soya or not, I don't know.

Feargal as Luimneach

I hope the ban will not affect numbers of rare birds such as Audouin's gull, which eat alot of the bycatch:(

CJhaughey

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I hope the ban will not affect numbers of rare birds such as Audouin's gull, which eat alot of the bycatch:(

Ending discarding will likely mean large scale die offs of some seabirds. The level of seabirds is maintained by availibility of food, remove a large portion of that and you are bound to see effects.
Gannets will be particularly hard hit.

sakigrant

Interesting to see that now that the Commission is taking discarding seriously, that fishermens organisations are getting cold feet.

If discarding is implemented the result will be that fishermen will have to bring in everything. Quotas will be exhausted in 4 months. In some fisheries such as nephrops it is possible to discard up to 80 % of the catch. The first species which will be focused on for discarding is mackerel. Pelagic vessels, despite having MSC certification, engage in a practice called "slipping" where they tow through a mark of fish and if it is not of the required standard they will release the dead fish or "slip" them.

How will this be stopped? Cameras? Pelagic vessel owners have said no way. Observer scheme? Hugely costly and notoriously unreliable.

A lot of the fish that was being shown discarded would have not been caught if the fishermen had used tried and tested technical methods. In the nephrops fishery on the east coast of Scotland in the North Sea a lot of the vessels are refusing to use seperator grids. These grids allow most of the fish to escape unharmed whilst retaining the prawns.

I think if discarding is to be implemented it is going to be impossible to police. At the moment Real TIme Closures are proving effective and technical measures can significantly improve the situation. I would love to see the end of discarding but I think we will have some very interesting times ahead in fisheries in the EU.

sakigrant

edwinkane wrote: »

Surely fish farms would be more effective in creating sustainable fisheries? The enormous bureaucratic waste of millions of tons of fish, where the EU makes fishermen throw back perfectly good dead fish into the sea, has been a scandal and a blot on the EU.

Ireland once had the richest herring fisheries in the world, but they were all fished out in a mini economic boom along the western seaboard.

The only real way to preserve fish is to farm fish.

The Total Allowable Catch (TAC) for herring for Ireland in the Celtic Sea has actually been increased this year by the COM. ICES and independent scientists have recognised that the fish stock is abundant and have increased the quota by 24%. This is th result of the the fishery industry implementing pelagic management plans in conjunction with greater fishery control by control authorities. This is a great success story, likewise, the Hake fishery, which was on the verge of collapse in 2001 is now healthier than ever.

The COM published a Hake recovery programme. This was implemented with EU reg 811 of 2004. Fishery inspectors were extremely active in enforcing this regulation and we are now seeing the results. Hake catches have never been greater. This regulation has now been repealed by the new fishery control regulation - 1224 of 2009 if anyone fancies casting their eye over it.

It is not all doom and gloom. The majority of people working in fisheries, whether it be fishermen, development, technology or control are very passionate about the subject and hope that all commercial fisheries remain viable.

Corsendonk

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

I hope the ban will not affect numbers of rare birds such as Audouin's gull, which eat alot of the bycatch:(

Just thinking that, we have a generations of birds use to getting free by catch food so we will surely have a decline in those species population when the procedure stops. Kind of like how buzzards in Europe declined when farmers were not allowed leave dead animals on their land.