Why do Alfa's have a bad name?

poconnor16

Hey all,

I'm in no way knowledgeful on cars, but am in the process if upgrading at the mo. I like the look of the Alfa 159 (around 2004) but everyone says to 'stay away'. Is this justified and why?

I was told opel astras were reliable and I've had major problems. But then again my friend has the exact same make and model, but a year older and she has had none.

Does it matter what the make is? Or is it down to previous owners, service history, mileage etc....

Matt Simis

Cos they have/had lots of overtly obvious fiddly bits that break. The reputation is somewhat blown out of proportion and is improving, but stupid, obvious things tend to break on Alfas (window motors, phantom power draw, lights not working, trim pieces falling off) etc which scares off "non-car people". Their petrol engines have higher than average maintenence which arguably people associate with unreliability too (eg oil change intervals need to strictly adhered to) which rubs mechanics the wrong way too.

Their diesel engines (well Fiats) are excellent, they had common rail diesel engines 5 years before the Germans and with less of the new age diesel problems.


I dont think in real "breakdown" sense they are unreliable, more issues with some of their component build choice and quality.

CarMuppet

If it's a 2004 159 I'd run a mile. Stay away from 159's of that year.

If you can buy an Alfa with genuine full service history and are willing to treat it as per the servicing schedule then it will be no worse than any other car. I've driven them for nearly 20 years now, I currently own a few of them and they have never stopped on the road, nor broken down. Mechanical parts have worn as usual with plenty of warning and were easy to put right. Some of the engine types can be expensive to service properly (eg TS timing belts, spark plugs etc)... but dam worth it!

What spec 159/engine type are you thinking of?

GavMan

You'll be lucky to get a 159 from 2004 seeing as they only came out in 2006.

If you're referring to the 156, its a cracking car. Had one myself and currently have a 147 owned from new.

To be honest, there can be problems with Alfa's, especially if you don't look after them. You need to service them once a year on the dot without fail.

Main things to look for would be timing belt changes every 40,000miles/60,000km, a FULL service history for every year. Keep it topped up with engine oil regularly. Don't rally it around like a dickhead the whole time. Take care of it.

Also, if you do get one, make sure gerry in TI Auto's looks after it for you. forget about the dealers. This guy is the man.

The 159 is a big big improvement on the 156, when the 156 was introduced I knew the head mechanic in the Alfa dealer in Cork, he said the amount in for warranty work was staggering. Their suspension wears and the engines require timing belts at shorter intervals than most other makes so if they are neglected at all they can turn into money pits. A well looked after 159 shouldn't be a bad buy.

poconnor16

Ok well here is one that I like, but haven't driven it yet - opinions?

2003 147, 1.6 Petrol 63,412 Miles and comes with 2 yr NCT. Tranny is manual and its a hatchback. And its sooooo pretty (see, this is where us women fall down )

Alloys, CD Player, Drivers Air Bag, Passenger airbag, Radio/CD, Central locking. 3500 euro.

Frank Black

I had a 2001 156 for 3 years. I loved that car but there was no doubt it's not the same as owning a Nissan or Toyota. It let me down a few times - mostly due to gearbox issues - it was a selespeed edition i.e. a semi-automatic.
It was a great car to drive and had more 'character' than any car I've driven before or since.
My suggestion would be to buy from an Alfa/Fiat garage and get a warrenty - some garages offer the option to buy exteded warrenties for second hand cars (I bought a 2 year warrenty and was glad I did).

Good luck!

Anan1

RoverJames wrote: »

The 159 is a big big improvement on the 156, when the 156 was introduced I knew the head mechanic in the Alfa dealer in Cork, he said the amount in for warranty work was staggering. Their suspension wears and the engines require timing belts at shorter intervals than most other makes so if they are neglected at all they can turn into money pits. A well looked after 159 shouldn't be a bad buy.

If it begins with a G and ends with an s then my mother bought a 156 new from them in 1998. They made a balls of the order, resulting in the car being three months late. In my youthful ignorance I then entrusted them with some work on my integrale, with similarly woeful results. The 156 was subsequently serviced by Alasta and then TI Autos, and ran like a Swiss watch until it was sold at 135k miles. Great cars, Fawlty Towers dealers.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

If it begins with a G and ends with an s then my mother bought a 156 new from them in 1998.

I delivered a Focus service kit and a Punto service kit to the same chap one Saturday morning, he rang me in the late afternoon to tell me I'd given him the wrong filter for the Punto. Nope I said, defo not (after checking the shop invoice copy). It turned out he had put the Punto filter on the focus (which had been collected) and when he went to service the Punto the Focus filter didn't fit :pac:

Veloce

Hi op,

As stated above by another user just double check its not a 156 your looking at as opposed to a 159 as the 159 was only introducted in 2006.

My old man has a 159, 1.9 diesel and its been a great car. A number of niggles that got sorted but far away from being 'unreliable'.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Cos they have/had lots of overtly obvious fiddly bits that break. The reputation is somewhat blown out of proportion and is improving, but stupid, obvious things tend to break on Alfas (window motors, phantom power draw, lights not working, trim pieces falling off) etc which scares off "non-car people". Their petrol engines have higher than average maintenence which arguably people associate with unreliability too (eg oil change intervals need to strictly adhered to) which rubs mechanics the wrong way too.

Their diesel engines (well Fiats) are excellent

+1

Matt Simis wrote: »

they had common rail diesel engines 5 years before the Germans

*coughs* more than 10 years before "some" Germans and a few months before other Germans

And guess what country the company is from who developed CR to market and who own the patents? Not from Italy

Hotwheels

If it's a 2004 159 I'd run a mile. Stay away from 159's of that year.

Ya I had to wait two years till 2006 to get my first one, garage kept making excuses, their on holidays or they are waiting on the black paint

All I can say is...I've been driving them for 14 years..Have yet to find anything to replace them. except another one

Ricardo G

I bought a 156 yesterday 03 reg for rediculously small money, 10k over its timing belt, waterpump, tensioners schedule :eek: variator is noisy, missing elec window button, and in need of two tyres otherwise bodywork is mint, interior is perfect and everything else works !! I have a young man (mechanic) that does all his work in his driveway that will fix all these bits in the next few days for 400 quid. Car will be standing me 1100 in total with 4 months test and 6 months tax already on her:)
Great driving car, have had 3 in the last 10 years and when they are looked after they will last as long as most yokes on the road. Alfa styling is great and comfort is pretty good but remember to stick to servicing intervals unlike the silly cow i bought mine from. If going for a petrol be prepared to drop a litre of good thick oil in every 1-2k

SAvage buy for that, very decent price for the belt and stuff. I'd top up with correct spec oil though if I had one.

Ricardo G

RoverJames wrote: »

SAvage buy for that, very decent price for the belt and stuff. I'd top up with correct spec oil though if I had one.

Yeah most people end up paying twice that for all the work, variator can be reconditioned apparently so saves a few quid, belt and pump are only 100 quid from Micksgarage and i have a few tensioners already, the young fella doing the work is only 19 but a pure genius when it comes to this kinda stuff so happy days !!:)

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

+1
*coughs* more than 10 years before "some" Germans and a few months before other Germans

And guess what country the company is from who developed CR to market and who own the patents? Not from Italy

My way was snappier! I assume you mean Herr Robert Bosch, they did indeed bring it to market, but the story says Fiat only sold the tech due to their piss poor financial situation. Fiat did take it from concept to near production though and the Alfa 156 was the first released Common Rail diesel.

Dr. Rinaldo Rinolfi
Executive Vice President, Director of Engines Division
Fiat Research Center
In 1993, under his management, Fiat Research Center and Magneti Marelli completed the development of the “Unijet” diesel fuel injection system which today, under the name of common rail, represents the state-of-the-art technology applied in almost all diesel engines. Soon after that, in 1997, Fiat in collaboration with Bosch, put into series production the Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD, the world’s first vehicle with a common rail diesel engine.

http://www.autonews.com/files/07_ane_ptc/speakers.html
The Germans have stacks of tech achievements (hence my interest in them), let the Italians have this one! :pac:

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

the story says Fiat only sold the tech due to their piss poor financial situation

I think that was a bit of spin FIAT gave it when they realised their mistake in selling it after it became hugely profitable for Herr B

Then again, this missed revenue accelerated the near demise of FIAT and the subsequent turnaround to what it is now thanks to Marchionne

Matt Simis wrote: »

Fiat did take it from concept to near production though and the Alfa 156 was the first released Common Rail diesel.

And yeah, the 156 2.4 JTD was the first CR production car. Even the early ones could be mapped to 200BHP

johnos1984

unkel wrote: »

Then again, this missed revenue accelerated the near demise of FIAT and the subsequent turnaround to what it is now thanks to Marchionne

A bit O/T but I'm interested to see if his Lancia/Chrysler plan pays off and sticking the Italian badges on the rest of that tat from america

unkel

That strategy I do not like, but I can see the commercial appeal of once again selling high margin cars in the states. The dealer network is already there to use it. Not sure if the people over there are gonna buy it though.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

And yeah, the 156 2.4 JTD was the first CR production car. Even the early ones could be mapped to 200BHP

Yeah, we have one, remapped accordingly. It sounds without question nicer than my mothers 535d (ooh controversial). Great "early-modern" diesel engine.

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yeah, we have one, remapped accordingly. It sounds without question nicer than my mothers 535d (ooh controversial). Great "early-modern" diesel engine.

My best mate had a 1.8 156 and was seriously outgunned by some sort of a black smoke belching Passat diesel on the motorway up ramp. It was hilarious to see an Alfa fan suffer like that

So he bought a 2.4JTD, had it remapped and was nearly a diesel convert (a bit like yourself ). Thankfully now he owns a 3l 166 and a 3l GTV - back in proper petrol land!

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

So he bought a 2.4JTD, had it remapped and was nearly a diesel convert (a bit like yourself ). Thankfully now he owns a 3l 166 and a 3l GTV - back in proper petrol land!

Yeah, as great as the 156 2.4JTD is, its still a diesel, I just cant drive a diesel daily!

mondeo

I'd avoid 147's and 156's like you would a box of rats. Owned two Alfas myself with decent service historys and had familiar issues with both. Component choice is very poor making your car a non runner once too often. Camshaft sensors go as often as you take a dump, AFM's go as often as it rains, variators and timing belts take the Mick with their silly shelf life. A sunroof with a mind of it's own was dangerous on my 1st 156 as you just wouldnt trust it to put your hand out of it on a sunny day. Overly detailed fiddly interior bits and pieces break off. The only thing I liked about the 156 was looking at it in the driveway otherwise it was an infuriating thing with a mind of it's own. Both my cars broke my heart leaving me stranded in random places because of knackered sensors.

Had a cousin with a horror story with a 147's "Body computer" giving trouble meaning electrics on one side of the car worked while everything on the other side didn't. New body computer wrote the value of the car off so she had it scrapped. The problem with 147's is their electrical system is so complex that there is too much to go wrong. She too also had random issues with the car not starting for no real reason while engine management systems did not log anything? What kind of system is this? The AA man has nothing to go by when his code reader pulls nothing from your ecu's memory so it's all a big guessing game as to what could be wrong at the side of the road in the p!ssing rain. I feel sick just thinking about it. The brand has scarred me big time.

johnos1984

mondeo wrote: »

The brand has scarred me big time.

Its like an incurable disease.

I had the 146 form hell but I'll have another Alfa