Quitting Homevision - post back equipment?!?

Zulu

Hi folks,
looking for opinions & advice here. I've been unfortunate enough to live in a development for the past four years that only had one internet/tv/phone provider, Homevision. Over the years I've had many run-ins with them in relation to poor service. There was a number of emails (which I kept) which were addressed to the MD & Customer Care manager which were ignored. etc.etc.

Thank fully I'm moving out now, and am finally in a position to leave them. I rang today, and they told me I need to:
1) Give a months notice (standard I suppose)
2) Post back their equipment

I've no intention to pay for mailing back their equipment, but rather I'll make it available to them for collection. Where do I stand with this?

Cheers.

AlwaysAmber

It depends on your contract. If your contract says you have to return it to them, that's what you have to do otherwise they can charge you for it.

If it specify that you are responsible for returning it, you just have to make it available for collecting.

Will_H

Depending where you live, you could drop it off at their premises, might be cheaper than postage:

Unit 11,
2009 Orchard Avenue,
Citywest Business Campus,
Dublin 24.

http://www.plannet21.com/dublinmap.asp

Del2005

You could always stick it in the post with no stamps and no return address on the box. Then they may have to pay for delivery

the_syco

Del2005 wrote: »

You could always stick it in the post with no stamps and no return address on the box. Then they may have to pay for delivery

Nice idea, but without proof that user had posted it, they could still charge him for not returning the equipment...

Del2005

the_syco wrote: »

Nice idea, but without proof that user had posted it, they could still charge him for not returning the equipment...

Yeah forgot about that, but unless they've specified recorded postage then normal post should do and it could get "Lost" in normal post.

Zulu

Apparently they are happy to collect it, under their own terms at a cost of €50 to me. Also I'm libel to the tune of €350 for any equipment thats damaged or lost in the post. I'm also libel for the cost of returning the equipment. So much for the IEEE - I understood that they incurred the cost? Some loophole for them no doubt.

I've emailed them back this:

To whom it may concern,
I have considered your response, and concluded that, I am happy to offer you three choices with regard to the return your equipment:

1) I can mail your equipment to your address detailed below. The cost of this will incurred by Homevision. I will accept no responsibility to any loss or damage to equipment en route.
2) I can direct an employee to deliver the equipment to your premises. You will be charged the standard daily rate for this employee (€500 ex. VAT) & will be liable for any expenses incurred (eg: return taxi fare for said employee).
3) You can collect the equipment from the premises you delivered it to as detailed below. Please be advised that you may be subject to a nominal administration & handling fee of €50 should you choose this option.

Please let me know which option you would prefer by COB Friday 4th of March.
Sincerely,

Will_H

Zulu - PM me on this.....

the_syco

Zulu wrote: »

1) I can mail your equipment to your address detailed below. The cost of this will incurred by Homevision. I will accept no responsibility to any loss or damage to equipment en route.

See's package falling down a stairs to the post office :pac:

Zulu

Will_H wrote: »

Zulu - PM me on this.....

PM sent.

the_syco wrote: »

See's package falling down a stairs to the post office :pac:

well I never! I can only assure all reading this thread, that, if forced to post it, I'll carry the equipment to the post office as though it were the last basket of eggs on earth. What An Post do with a package marked "indestructible" & "the addressee may believe that all postal workers are pedophiles" won't be my concern.

91011

Zulu wrote: »

I've emailed them back this:

To whom it may concern,
I have considered your response, and concluded that, I am happy to offer you three choices with regard to the return your equipment:

1) I can mail your equipment to your address detailed below. The cost of this will incurred by Homevision. I will accept no responsibility to any loss or damage to equipment en route.
2) I can direct an employee to deliver the equipment to your premises. You will be charged the standard daily rate for this employee (€500 ex. VAT) & will be liable for any expenses incurred (eg: return taxi fare for said employee).
3) You can collect the equipment from the premises you delivered it to as detailed below. Please be advised that you may be subject to a nominal administration & handling fee of €50 should you choose this option.

Please let me know which option you would prefer by COB Friday 4th of March.
Sincerely,

That is one of the stupidest replies to a company I have ever seen.

Most companies will be quite reasonable, but expect customers to be reasonable in return. A retort like this will ensure the company will do you no favours and nor should they.

Basic manners cost nothing.

But maybe this gives you a good feeling???

Zulu

"stupidest replies" must be catching. :rolleyes:

Does picking rows anonymously on the internet give you a good feeling?

bcirl03

91011 wrote: »

That is one of the stupidest replies to a company I have ever seen.

Most companies will be quite reasonable, but expect customers to be reasonable in return. A retort like this will ensure the company will do you no favours and nor should they.

Basic manners cost nothing.

But maybe this gives you a good feeling???

I think its brilliant....

How many of us have to accept stupid T&C's from companies - about time they got a taste of their own medicine.

Given Zulu has had so many problems with them I think it's within reason.

91011

I've always found when I use firm politeness and have basic manner and respect the staff of the company its gets a far superior response. Then again I have 50+ years of experience in life and that has taught me that you acheive nothing by shouting the odds and throwing tantrums.

Zulu

91011 wrote: »

I've always found when I use firm politeness and have basic manner and respect the staff of the company its gets a far superior response. Then again I have 50+ years of experience in life and that has taught me that you acheive nothing by shouting the odds and throwing tantrums.

Well perhaps you could utilise your 50+ years experience in life to hold off jumping to conclusions? ...particularly ill-founded ones??

Not that you bothered asking, before rashly jumping in with a caustic comment, I've used politeness & manners to no avail in the past. In fact, I was repeatedly ignored and treated like crap for a number of months. There's a far bigger back story here, which you are not privy to. And that said - the email above is neither impolite or unmannerly.

dudara

@Zulu and 91011 Please take it to PM

dudara

Zulu

For those who are interested, I got the following reply...:

Homevision wrote:

>
From: Care HomeVision <care@homevision.ie>
To: Zulu
Cc: Managing director@3playplus.ie; care@homevision.ie
Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 2:15:51 PM
Subject: Re: Cancel account: ******3

Dear Zulu,

We reiterate the fact and re-request you to adhere to the HomeVision terms & conditions as posted on www.homevision.ie and to the conditions of the HomeVision contract to which you are subject & that you have agreed & signed up to. It is your sole responsibility to return all the equipment to us at your own cost within fourteen (14) days of the date of termination. Failure to return all the equipment & in working order and reasonable condition, will result in you being invoiced for the cost of replacing the equipment i.e. €350.

Yours Faithfully,

HomeVision Customer Care

To which I replied:

Zulu wrote:

To whom it may concern,
I note that you didn't choose a preference in your previous communication. In the interests of clarity, I would urge you to make a selection by COB Friday 4th of March.
In the event that no preference is selected by Homevision, I will assume you wish to proceed with option 3, where "You can collect the equipment from the premises you delivered it to". Please note that you may be libel to a nominal administration fee of €50 with this option.

Kind regards,
Zulu

They replied with this yesterday:

Homevision wrote:

From: Care HomeVision <care@homevision.ie>
To: Zulu
Cc: managing director@3playplus.ie; care@homevision.ie
Sent: Thu, March 3, 2011 11:28:08 AM
Subject: Re: Cancel account: *****3

Dear Zulu,

We acknowledge receipt of your email below. HomeVision have made our position very clear on this matter.

As required by our joint contract, HomeVision will be proceeding on the terms of our contract (Section 8) with you in this matter. As this is a legal document, we would advise you to seek your own legal counsel prior, if desired.

Yours Faithfully,

HomeVision Customer Care

And I responded...

Zulu wrote:

To whom it may concern,
I acknowledge receipt of your email below. While I have made my position very clear on this matter, unfortunately you haven't clearly stated your preference. Naturally, you have until COB tomorrow to decide, but in the meantime, I'll take it that you are opting for choice 3, where you will collect the equipment yourself, subject to a minor administration charge.

I'll take this opportunity to reiterate, what I stated previously:

"Please confirm and ensure that the technician calls out on that date between the times of 4pm & 4:30pm. I reserve the right to change this collection time, should I require. In the event of a reschedule of the collection time, Homevision will be advised not less than 24 hours in advance.
Please note, if a call out is before that date, I will require & 24hours notice & credit pro-rata. If a call out is after that date, no advance notice will be required, & the hardware will be in the hallway, ready to collect.
I will not accept any responsibility for any damage to, or, equipment lost, should Homevision choose to collect it from the hallway."

Sincerely,
Zulu.

Dan133269

Zulu wrote: »

I've emailed them back this:

To whom it may concern,
I have considered your response, and concluded that, I am happy to offer you three choices with regard to the return your equipment:

1) I can mail your equipment to your address detailed below. The cost of this will incurred by Homevision. I will accept no responsibility to any loss or damage to equipment en route.
2) I can direct an employee to deliver the equipment to your premises. You will be charged the standard daily rate for this employee (€500 ex. VAT) & will be liable for any expenses incurred (eg: return taxi fare for said employee).
3) You can collect the equipment from the premises you delivered it to as detailed below. Please be advised that you may be subject to a nominal administration & handling fee of €50 should you choose this option.

Please let me know which option you would prefer by COB Friday 4th of March.
Sincerely,

Legend!

slimjimmc

When you took out their service did you consent to the T&Cs they refer to in their email? If so, they have you over a legal barrel.

Del2005

slimjimmc wrote: »

When you took out their service did you consent to the T&Cs they refer to in their email? If so, they have you over a legal barrel.

From reading this thread it appears they didn't provide the service. So the T&C's have already been broken by the provider.

slimjimmc

Del2005 wrote: »

From reading this thread it appears they didn't provide the service. So the T&C's have already been broken by the provider.

If they failed to provide the service he should have made his exit earlier.
He must have been reasonably satisfied if he kept the service for 4 years despite as he says "many run-ins with them in relation to poor service" during that time, yet he stayed with them.
He's terminating not because of poor service but because he is moving address and now he wants to avoid something he committed himself to doing.

Zulu

slimjimmc wrote: »

When you took out their service did you consent to the T&Cs they refer to in their email? If so, they have you over a legal barrel.

No, the T&C's have been changed a number if times since, however, I understand that you've accepted them by default unless you break contract within 30days or some such?

slimjimmc wrote: »

If they failed to provide the service he should have made his exit earlier.
He must have been reasonably satisfied if he kept the service for 4 years despite as he says "many run-ins with them in relation to poor service" during that time, yet he stayed with them.
He's terminating not because of poor service but because he is moving address and now he wants to avoid something he committed himself to doing.

well that's only partially accurate. They have been the only provider on the site. I've spent the last year and a half introducing other alternative providers (as a member of the residents committee) but have been unable to secure an comparable/suitable Internet provider. To date, I've only managed to get a replacement for the tv (namely sky) but have been blocked by the developers from getting UPC in (I suspect a cosy relationship). As such, I've been forced into a monopoly of sorts.
They've had me over a barrel since day one. I've clearly stated that I required the Internet service for my business & cant do with out it, so I couldn't leave them (although I've been trying) - now I can leave & while i'm happy to pay for the service I received (ie the months notice), I've no intention of incurring additional costs.
I can honestly say that, hand on heart, if you take all the time I've been without service over the period I've been inflicted with them, calculate that cost, (which they refused to refund me) it's far less than the postage of equipment. So Fu(k them.

Pacing Mule

OP the guys here egging you on are ultimately going to cost you dearly.

You have a contract with them and the terms of the contract explain the process for terminating the contract. Your offers to / demands of them although humorous for the congregation here are irrelevant.

Fact is you are responsible for the return of the equipment (and I'd imagine also that there is a fairly watertight clause as to it's condition when it arrives so there is sod all point in going down the route of An Post damaged it or indeed lost it as it will still be your responsibillity)

whippet

I am perplexed by the OP's insistance on this line of approach with a service provider.

All consumer broadband packages have terms and conditions in their packages which say that they can't guarantee 100% uptime and certain speeds. They also say that if they can't provide the service for various reasons they can not be deemed to be not fulfilling their side of the contract.

The OP is obviously frustrated that the issues he has had with a consumer broadband package has hampered his business ... but this isn't a business package with business centered SLAs and guarantee of service.

Business services cost a lot more for obvious reasons.

From my point of view your stance with regards to returning equipment belonging to someone else is boarding on childish. There is terms and conditions clearly outlined and you just do not want to fulfill them, purely as a last act of 'revenge' on an organisation which you feel you have a grievance against.

The reality is, there is a few heads in an office in city west who will be determined to wind you up as much as possible. they probably don't give two hoots about the equipment and if you never sent it back they wouldn't have noticed as you have paid for it many times over already. The more you throw the toys out of the pram the bigger laughs they will have over their coffee in the morning

ch750536

I dont care why he's doing it or even if he is right or not. Sometimes it is good to have a bit of a scrap over nothing, makes for good tales when you're too old to do anything else.

ch750536

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=665847

along the same lines.

BrianD

whippet wrote: »

I am perplexed by the OP's insistance on this line of approach with a service provider.

All consumer broadband packages have terms and conditions in their packages which say that they can't guarantee 100% uptime and certain speeds. They also say that if they can't provide the service for various reasons they can not be deemed to be not fulfilling their side of the contract.

The OP is obviously frustrated that the issues he has had with a consumer broadband package has hampered his business ... but this isn't a business package with business centered SLAs and guarantee of service.

Business services cost a lot more for obvious reasons.

From my point of view your stance with regards to returning equipment belonging to someone else is boarding on childish. There is terms and conditions clearly outlined and you just do not want to fulfill them, purely as a last act of 'revenge' on an organisation which you feel you have a grievance against.

The reality is, there is a few heads in an office in city west who will be determined to wind you up as much as possible. they probably don't give two hoots about the equipment and if you never sent it back they wouldn't have noticed as you have paid for it many times over already. The more you throw the toys out of the pram the bigger laughs they will have over their coffee in the morning

You are spot on with your analysis of what's going on here. Couldn't have put it down better myself.

The irony is that the real issue is being avoided in true 'me fein' fashion. The real issue is why these monopoly providers to apartment developments are allowed to persist without further regulation. I'm guessing that most of them are owned either directly or at arms length by the developers. Another way of soaking up ongoing revenue from the owners.

Unfortunately, the last Minister decided to pass on this issue.

The OP would be much better if he could give back Homevisions property and direct his ire into starting a campaign for better regulation of this area. Ultimately, Homevision will win this arguement unless they get bored and decide to cede.

Del2005

It'll cost them more in legal fees then the equequipment is worth. They'll huff and puff but do nothing. Most of these companies are tied into the developer, who are nearly all in NAMA, I can't see them wasting their time if the OP does nothing.

BrianD

Del2005 wrote: »

It'll cost them more in legal fees then the equequipment is worth. They'll huff and puff but do nothing. Most of these companies are tied into the developer, who are nearly all in NAMA, I can't see them wasting their time if the OP does nothing.

If a contract is in place, Homevision will win hands down and they'll get their costs back. They only thing that they'll waste is time.

The best advice is for the OP to return the equipment as he's on a hiding to nowhere and wasting his own time and money.

Unfortunately the situation with monopoly suppliers will still persist. These small ones will never have the resources or economies of scale to provide a quality service in the long run.

Grumpypants

I had a similar issue with an IP not providing internet. After 3 months i wrote to them and said i felt it was a breach of contract and wished to be refunded as they had failed to provide me with internet access for which i had paid.

They tried the post back the equipment line but i just said i was not a trained technician and it was a health and safety risk to disassemble the equipment that had been professionally installed without adequate training.

I did have the bonus of a receiver box being up on the roof, i know its not the same in this case but the line, I don't think a company should be encouraging me to climb up on the a 15 foot pole on top of my roof as it posses a huge risk.

Seemed to do the trick. I was sent a postage paid envelope and refunded right up to the day of my first complaint.

slimjimmc

Did the arrival of a postage paid envelope and refund suddenly qualify you to dismantle the equipment Grumpypants ?

Grumpypants

slimjimmc wrote: »

Did the arrival of a postage paid envelope and refund suddenly qualify you to dismantle the equipment Grumpypants ?

lol should have added that the envelope was for the modem they sent a guy to get the stuff off the roof, but it still did the trick !!

Zulu

Just to keep you updated, they've pulled my service for bill arrears.

homevision wrote:

(via text on 10/3/2011@1:40pm) Your a/c is currently in arrears. To avoid potential suspension of services please call us today

I responded immediately:

zulu wrote:

(via text on 10/3/2011@1:41pm) Please issue final invoice via email as I don't have access to the website. Thanks.

In terms of background, the bill are only available online from their website. I can't access the website for some reason. I rang previously in relation to this but their support have yet to resolve the issue.

homevision wrote:

(via text on 16/3/2011@12:14pm) Due to arrears on your account your service has been suspended. Please arrange payment today & avoid reconnection fees today.

I got that last text as I was composing:

Zulu via email wrote:

To whom it may concern,
on the 10th of March, I received a text message notification that my account was in arrears. I responded requesting a final invoice to be issues via email. I have yet to receive either an e-mail or a response. Can you please issue the invoice so I can clear the account?

Please note, I do not have access to the webpage, so I'll require an e-mail response. I have contacted your customer care on this issue previously & you were unable to resolve the problem.

Kind regards,
Zulu.

PS: I've just received a text message advising me that my service has been suspended. As I'm still awaiting an invoice detailing the outstanding charges, I expect the service to be resumed until the 1st of April.

Zulu

So I got an invoice from them today. It's for the month of April. Clowns.

Here's my responce:

Zulu via email wrote:

To whom it may concern & Mr. Crowley,

thank you for finally e-mailing an invoice, however, this invoice is for the period 1/4/2011 to 30/4/2011. I've already issued you a months notice for canceling my account on the 1st of April, so I do not expect to be invoiced for this period. Please revise the invoice & correct accordingly.
Please detail the period of billing accurately.

Please note that I still have no service.
I expect that I will be fully refunded for each day you've removed service. I calculate that I should receive a refund of €2.83 per day you've stopped service, inclusive (this is calculated at €87.63 (monthly bill) /31 (days in March). You discontinued service on the 16th, so the current refund should equate to €19.81 (€2.83*7), assuming service continues today.

I expect the updated invoice to reflect this refund.

Sincerely,

Zulu

Surely this is a slip up on their behalf? Can they cut your service without issueing you an invoice, or detailing how much you own?


They've responded with:

homevision wrote:

From: Care HomeVision <care@homevision.ie>
To: Zulu
Cc: billing@homevision.ie; terry.crowley@3playplus.ie
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 11:56:38 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: HomeVision Bill (Re: Cancel account: ****)

Dear Zulu,

This invoice dated & generated on March 21st is correct at the time of print. It is sent automatically to you as part of our scheduled batch email run to all customers as part of our FREE convenient invoicing notification service. You will not receive a final invoice from HomeVision until such time as your HomeVision services & contract are fully completed with us. We acknowledge your 30 days written notification for termination of your HomeVision services is up to & including April 1st 2011.

However, we also await your decision in respect of our equipment which may have an impact on your final invoice as already outlined to you previously. Our equipment needs to be returned to us within 14 days of your service ending i.e. April 15th at the latest. Your final invoice will be generated & sent to you a few days after this date & will reflect all your services & charges accrued on your HomeVision account including any credit that may be due.

Currently you have no service from HomeVision as you have chosen not to pay your HomeVision invoice issued on February 18th 2011. The service is available and will be immediately restored once full payment is received. There will be no refund issued - As per the terms & conditions of your contract, we have the right to suspend your services if you do not pay your bill on the date specified on the bill. Please call us to arrange payment at your convenience on freephone 1800944555 Billing option 3.

Regards,
HomeVision Customer Care

And my response:

Zulu wrote:

Dear Mr. Crowley & "Care",
I'd like to remind you that while I was notified via SMS that an amount was due, I replied requesting that amount in order to pay it. Homevision choose not to inform me how much was outstanding, and cut off my account. It is basic business practice to provide a customer with an invoice for outstanding fees. Is it not a prerequisite to issue an invoice prior to removing service?
If it is not, can you please direct me to where in the terms and conditions this is detailed? Please be advised that I will not be paying for a service that has not been provided, so I would expect that the difference will be deducted from the invoice for the month of March.

I have yet to receive an invoice for the amount in arrears.

I'm surprised to hear that you are waiting for me to make a decision on the return of your equipment. I have been clear in my previous emails (in particular please refer to the email send on the 3rd of March)*, and as you haven't indicated which option you'd prefer for the return of the equipment, I've understood that you choose to collect the equipment yourselves as per:

*("I note that you didn't choose a preference in your previous communication. In the interests of clarity, I would urge you to make a selection by COB Friday 4th of March. In the event that no preference is selected by Homevision, I will assume you wish to proceed with option 3, where "You can collect the equipment from the premises you delivered it to". Please note that you may be libel to a nominal administration fee of €50 with this option")

Sincerly
Zulu