will spinning improve my cycling

woody1

as above, for lots of reasons i havent been able to get out on the bike as much as last year.. 2 jobs, new baby, dark evenings, swimming lessons and worst of all the wife is starting to do a bit of running so theres 2 of us competing for free time now... etc etc..
and this all came to a head when i wheezed my way around the bike course in a duathlon at the weekend..
so in an effort to try to make some kind of improvement and get some kind of regular training going , i was thinking of doing a spinning class for a few weeks until it starts to get brighter and swimming lessons are over.. will it be of any benefit at all , would the money be better invested in a turbo... ( even though it could be left to gather cobwebs )

mloc123

Invest in a turbo and use it. Spinning classes have no relevance to cycling. I presume you are looking at doing some tris over the summer?

woody1

duathlons and multi - sport / adventure races only learning to swim for last few weeks so triathlon would be brave mite do bike run in a few as part of a team wife is good swimmer
thanks for confirming that for me was wondering if they had any relevance at all a lot of tri people i know seem to do them maybe its the lure of organised training, i dunno doesnt appeal to me like to do my own thing even if it isnt really working this year so far
off to adverts to look up turbos so

greenasgrass

Agree that spinning has no/lttile relevance for cycling but I used (and still using) it to keep up my general cycling fitness over the winter. I usually do 30-40k at the weekend on my bike and felt that the midweeek spinning was helping me a little, even if it's just for general fitness. I'm also a little poor at self motivation so it's good to have someone screaming at me to work harder!

One thing it is good for imho is that when you are on the spin bike you can practice pedalling technique better. Basically because you can concentrate on your foot position without worrying about crashing into a tree.

But yeah if you want to work on cycling indoors then a turbo is the way to go and you can do the pedalling technique work on this too.

kennyb3

I'd second the turbo recommendation if you cant get out on the road.

You mention until the evening get brighter tho... maybe get some good front and back lights and you can cycle at any time you want. Might be cheaper than a decent turbo.

Also what about cycling to/from work?

nerraw1111

As a matter of interest, why is spinning of no/little relevance to cycling?

I was considering doing some 'tri-specific' classes

greenasgrass

nerraw1111 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, why is spinning of no/little relevance to cycling?

I was considering doing some 'tri-specific' classes

Multiple reasons. Some good posts on here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55623674

woody1

cycling to work isnt really an option at the moment , dropping son into creche and picking up after he mightnt be keen on sitting on the bar but i might be able to work something later in the year brighter evenings will make a difference and their not that far away i live in the deepest darkest countryside and to be honest i wouldnt be too fond of meeting runners or cyclists in the dark when im driving at nite i dont really think its very fair on drivers on the narrow roads that are round us... regardless how well lit up they are

shotgunmcos

mloc123 wrote: »

Invest in a turbo and use it. Spinning classes have no relevance to cycling. I presume you are looking at doing some tris over the summer?

I disagree with this. Yeah from a purists point of view, considering bike handling etc its of little relevance but case in point. I got through my whole rookie season without a turbo and used spinning classes up until I got my first road bike. It was winter by then though so I kept the spinning classes up until I could get out on the road safely.

Yes the turbo is much better as its on a real bike with real gears but you can still build your fitness up with spinning. For a novice it may be a necessary evil as A) there are so many other basics to purchase for your first triathlon and you can still simulate brick sessions off spinning bikes which will help no end in your first few tris. 45min hard spinning class and a 5k run on the treadmill did me no harm for my first sprint

woody1

turbo new and delivered 140 euro
im not fully sure on price of the spinning but lets assume a fiver a go ( probably more though ) so thats a lot of classes and probably improved fitness but nothing concrete to show afterward
if the turbo is bought purely on a practical level i have something to show for my 140 quid and if its used as it should be then there should be an improvement in fitness and cycling ability as well
of course i could just wait for it to get brighter and accept my cycling crumminess in the meantime wait for the winter to buy the turbo

greenasgrass

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I disagree with this. Yeah from a *purists* point of view, considering bike handling etc its of little relevance but case in point.

Well I'm certainly not a "purest" (or even close!) but I think you'd agree that in order of effectiveness for training for a triathalon/duathlon the options would be;

1. Proper road cycling / proper road running / proper sea/river swimming
2. Turbo trainer cycling / track running / cold water swimming (outdoor pool etc.)
3. Spinning/Exercise Bike / Treadmill / Pool

The original reply was just pointing out that spinning is the least effective while I think it has some benefits for fitness but not particularly towards triathlon training. i.e. the gym equivalents have benefits but these are lower in the pecking order than other options.

kennyb3

Im defintely in the camp of on the road, night or day and in most weather (snow excluded). Turbos cant simulate wind, potholes, general roll resistance and traffic.

Plenty of different forums full of people moaning that they ve lost fitness/endurance by just using a turbo all winter.

Obviously turbos have a place if you cant get out etc.

shotgunmcos

greenasgrass wrote: »

Well I'm certainly not a "purest" (or even close!) but I think you'd agree that in order of effectiveness for training for a triathalon/duathlon the options would be;

1. Proper road cycling / proper road running / proper sea/river swimming
2. Turbo trainer cycling / track running / cold water swimming (outdoor pool etc.)
3. Spinning/Exercise Bike / Treadmill / Pool

The original reply was just pointing out that spinning is the least effective while I think it has some benefits for fitness but not particularly towards triathlon training. i.e. the gym equivalents have benefits but these are lower in the pecking order than other options.

Yes the order is right and I agree with you. I just jump on people that make broad quips without some context or qualification (humour aside ) when a OP asks a genuine question.

BTW I'd throw mountain biking into the pot too. I know a lad who spends his winters on the mtb, avoids indoor cycling like the plague and spanks most in spring duathlons!

pgibbo

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Yes the order is right and I agree with you. I just jump on people that make broad quips without some context or qualification (humour aside ) when a OP asks a genuine question.

BTW I'd throw mountain biking into the pot too. I know a lad who spends his winters on the mtb, avoids indoor cycling like the plague and spanks most in spring duathlons!

+1 on the MTB advice. A few guys I know don't turbo train but instead go out on their MTB in bad weather. Some of them are sh*t hot cyclists too

EC1000

greenasgrass wrote: »

Well I'm certainly not a "purest" (or even close!) but I think you'd agree that in order of effectiveness for training for a triathalon/duathlon the options would be;

1. Proper road cycling / proper road running / proper sea/river swimming
2. Turbo trainer cycling / track running / cold water swimming (outdoor pool etc.)
3. Spinning/Exercise Bike / Treadmill / Pool

I'm far from an expert (and wandering dangerously OT) but I would disagree in relation to sea swim > cold water > pool. In fact I would go the exact opposite and say that the pool is the best place for beginner swim training as it affords better opportunity to concentrate on speed/technique etc. I would consider open water swims as very useful for getting used to sighting/chop/cold but definitely pool for technique and speed and of most benefit to a beginner.... as I said not an expert and just my 2c

mloc123

kennyb3 wrote: »

Im defintely in the camp of on the road, night or day and in most weather (snow excluded). Turbos cant simulate wind, potholes, general roll resistance and traffic.

Plenty of different forums full of people moaning that they ve lost fitness/endurance by just using a turbo all winter.

Obviously turbos have a place if you cant get out etc.

Sitting on a tubo pissing about for an hour a night is great, for making you feel like you are putting some training in.

Using a turbo correctly is actually great for training. Wind, potholes and rr? A watt is a watt doesn't matter if its up a hill, into wind or on a turbo.

mloc123

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I disagree with this. Yeah from a purists point of view, considering bike handling etc its of little relevance but case in point. I got through my whole rookie season without a turbo and used spinning classes up until I got my first road bike. It was winter by then though so I kept the spinning classes up until I could get out on the road safely.

Yes the turbo is much better as its on a real bike with real gears but you can still build your fitness up with spinning. For a novice it may be a necessary evil as A) there are so many other basics to purchase for your first triathlon and you can still simulate brick sessions off spinning bikes which will help no end in your first few tris. 45min hard spinning class and a 5k run on the treadmill did me no harm for my first sprint

No doubt spinning is better than sitting on a couch, but if you have a bike why would you go to spinning classes?

kennyb3

mloc123 wrote: »

Sitting on a tubo pissing about for an hour a night is great, for making you feel like you are putting some training in.

Using a turbo correctly is actually great for training. Wind, potholes and rr? A watt is a watt doesn't matter if its up a hill, into wind or on a turbo.

Thats fair enough if you have a powermeter (what % do tho?) but lads trying to do intervals @ 34km/ph (or whatever) are fooling themselves on a turbo. Much better do get out on the road if you ve no powermeter. Also not many people are prepared to do 4-5hours on a turbo at the weeknd, so they swap it for 1-1.5 hours hard, hence their endurance erodes over the winter.

mloc123

If you don't have a PM use HRM. Who doesn't have a HRM? Speed as a metric is junk, on the road or on the turbo.

4-5 hours over the winter is not needed to maintain endurance.

kennyb3

mloc123 wrote: »

If you don't have a PM use HRM. Who doesn't have a HRM? Speed as a metric is junk, on the road or on the turbo.

4-5 hours over the winter is not needed to maintain endurance.

The pros must be doing it wrong so - they dont just sit on their turbos for 1-2 hour sessions rather than doing long spins over the winter.

woody1

to get back to the original point lads the question was would spinning improve my cycling

given that as of yet this year i havent been able to get out on the roads anywhere near as much as i would like to and nowhere close to as much as i should and that will be the way for the foreseeable future

i think we've decided that whilst the spinning classes are better than doing nothing and will improve general fitness they wont do anything specifically for cycling strenght power endurance ability whatever

so given that my fitness is okay ( just okay ) and that i own a bike and want to specifically improve cycling whilst not being able to get out on the road i think a turbo is the way to go

i think the argument over what the top guys do or dont do whether a turbo is as good as the road or whatever is a little beyond the level of this particular question

now for those of you that cycle to work have ye got showers / changing how do you deal with getting wet... the saddle i have on my bike im not sure that id sit on it without at least tri shorts on i presume the idea is not to just dawdle into work i know its all time on the bike but i presume its better to make a bit of an effort hence the shower question

mloc123

Okay, so what are the benefits of 5 hour sessions over the winter? What exactly does it do? How often should somebody get a 5 hour session in a week?
5 hour bike is probably roughly equal to a 2.5hr run? I presume you also need to get these in every week over the winter... and swim?

What race distance are we talking her? Sprint, Oly, HIM...IM? What distance are the pros racing? What are their weekly volumes overall?

mloc123

I would buy a turbo, you can pick one up for under a €100.

How many sessions/hours can you get in a week?

woody1

sessions hours id figure i could get around 3 hours not including weekends at least on the weekends i should be able to get out on the road in some form

mloc123

woody1 wrote: »

sessions hours id figure i could get around 3 hours not including weekends at least on the weekends i should be able to get out on the road in some form

Three 1hr sessions during the week is plenty imo. If I was you...

1 Strength session, 1 easy session(easy is not just sitting on the bike) and probably one session with longer intervals at moderate intensity.

Strength: Hill/Big Gear work. Low cadence steady intervals.
Easy: Cycle easy, but not pissing about watching TV.
Intervals: 15-30 min intervals above 'easy' but not redlining it.

Get a long easy in on the road at the weekend if you can.

Have you a HRM? Friels training bible is a pretty good read and will go into more detail on the sessions. His blog is worth a read too. http://www.joefrielsblog.com/

Edit:

http://www.endurancecorner.com/library/cycling/big_gear_training
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Interval_training_will_boost_your_cycling_speed_and_stamina.htm > see 'cruise intervals'

greenasgrass

woody1 wrote: »

to get back to the original point lads the question was would spinning improve my cycling

given that as of yet this year i havent been able to get out on the roads anywhere near as much as i would like to and nowhere close to as much as i should and that will be the way for the foreseeable future

i think we've decided that whilst the spinning classes are better than doing nothing and will improve general fitness they wont do anything specifically for cycling strenght power endurance ability whatever

so given that my fitness is okay ( just okay ) and that i own a bike and want to specifically improve cycling whilst not being able to get out on the road i think a turbo is the way to go

i think the argument over what the top guys do or dont do whether a turbo is as good as the road or whatever is a little beyond the level of this particular question

*now for those of you that cycle to work have ye got showers / changing how do you deal with getting wet... the saddle i have on my bike im not sure that id sit on it without at least tri shorts on i presume the idea is not to just dawdle into work i know its all time on the bike but i presume its better to make a bit of an effort hence the shower question*

Think your thread's been hijacked OP!!!

I cycle into work and have no showers. Only do it once or twice a week but a facecloth in front of the sink and some deoderant does wonders. I wear proper cycling shorts too but it's 25k each way so well needed.

Usually feel a little crappy for the first 20 minutes at my desk but after that I (although perhaps not my colleagues) don't notice it.

MrCreosote

woody1 wrote: »

now for those of you that cycle to work have ye got showers / changing how do you deal with getting wet... the saddle i have on my bike im not sure that id sit on it without at least tri shorts on i presume the idea is not to just dawdle into work i know its all time on the bike but i presume its better to make a bit of an effort hence the shower question

I don't shower- just one facecloth to wash and one to dry. The sweat of honest endeavour doesn't smell.

Definitely get some cycling shorts, for anything over 5k they make a huge difference.

I'd agree with you about the turbo. Boring as hell and not as good as getting out on the road, but with a kid around it means you have much more flexibility with training. And it's better than nothing.

woody1

i have cycling shorts i work pretty much in a little office on my own most of the time but i dont want to stink the place out of it its more the idea of getting changed in what are fairly disgusting loos i work in a mart and the toilets are shocking and i wouldnt be easily shocked but il work something out

TFBubendorfer

MrCreosote wrote: »

The sweat of honest endeavour doesn't smell.

I've heard that one before, alright.
Just a pity my wife does not buy it. :rolleyes: