Spain lowers speed limits to save fuel

Yakuza

I'm over in Spain for a week, and happened to catch an article on the news; from next week they're reducing the motorway speed limits to 110km/h to save fuel (Libya supplies a good chunk of Spanish fuel) like what was done in the US in the 70's.

From my experience of driving in Spain (over the last 17 years), I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference; folks will be 20-30 km/h over the limit, instead of 10-20km/h as they are now.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a4d83b90-410c-11e0-bf62-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1F9rEEXcO

http://www.theleader.info/article/27449/spain/national/spain-lowers-motorway-speed-limit/

A lot of industry experts here are saying it's an ill-thought out and knee-jerk reaction to the unrest in the Arab regions and the fuel savings will be nowhere near the government's estimate of 15%. They (the experts) are saying most modern cars won't now be able to legally use 6th gear, thus staying in 5th and using *more* fuel. Cars in Spain tend to have larger engines than in Ireland (and are a damn sight cheaper, but that's another day's rant )

What do you fine folks think?

biko

It will probably save fuel but it's hard to know unless they try it.
Dropping to 110 from 120 shouldn't be too much, speeders will speed anyway so it won't affect them.

Anan1

Yakuza wrote: »

They (the experts) are saying most modern cars won't now be able to legally use 6th gear, thus staying in 5th and using *more* fuel....

What do you fine folks think?

I think that the above is nonsense.

Max_Damage

Isn't 55mph in top gear the most efficient speed?

Yakuza

Anan1 wrote: »

I think that the above is nonsense.

I'm just reporting what I saw in a segment on the news here; maybe I missed something in the translation but I think that's the gist of what they were saying. From a brief google search, a few places I read (mainly enthusiast sites I admit) would recommend staying out of 6th until around 70mph, which will be illegal here in Spain next week).

I guess it depends on the car, but there's a fair amount of 2.0 + petrol cars over here on the roads that would not be breaking a sweat at 110km/h. Even my lowly 1.5D would be doing better mpg in 6th than 5th at motorway speeds.

mike65

Just as well there are no Greens left

Seriously though if this happens here, the limits will NEVER go back up.

opinion guy

Yakuza wrote: »

They (the experts) are saying most modern cars won't now be able to legally use 6th gear, thus staying in 5th and using *more* fuel.

There are no laws governing gear changes

Yakuza wrote: »

From a brief google search, a few places I read (mainly enthusiast sites I admit) would recommend staying out of 6th until around 70mph, which will be illegal here in Spain next week).

I guess it depends on the car, but there's a fair amount of 2.0 + petrol cars over here on the roads that would not be breaking a sweat at 110km/h. Even my lowly 1.5D would be doing better mpg in 6th than 5th at motorway speeds.

There is a difference between a recommendation and a law.
Besides, the engine management system which is programmed to maximise efficiency on my 2ltr tdi tells me to go into 6th gear generally at 70kph. (which to my mind means they got the gearing ratios a bit wrong since that is too slow...but thats a different days argument)

Yakuza

I just think there's a bit too much nanny-state-ism about it; if people want to save fuel, let them drive slower, but don't force them to do it.

AugustusMinimus

Dan Boyle wanted to knock 20kph off of 100 and 120kph speed limits in Ireland.

The electorate, especially on "Senator" Dan Boyle's case have spoken. And thank god they have.


A lot of countries, (France and Finland) reduce their carbon output through good planning. (Nuclear power and renewables).

We on the other hand are the laughing stock of Europe, almost always paired off with Spain, Portugal and Greece. No, instead we due stupid things like trying to slow down traffic to save carbon emissions.

What a country

pburns

I think the whole RSA/Gaybo/maudlin RTE reports about Irish road safety were completely OTT. This all came at the tail end of the boom when the media had feck all else to be reporting about. (Not to make light of it but I don't think our stats were drastically worse than other countries).

Decrease in economic activity has led to a reduction in road deaths but of course Gaybo & co will claim the plaudits to justify the continued existence of the RSA quango...

Mc Love

Plus Spanish police are a lot stricter than Irish police

peasant

Anyone remember the oil crisis of 1973?

In Germany they had several car-free Sundays ...no driving allowed

Dont be at yourself

Apparently trucks can still go 120kph. So forget about your M3, the fastest thing for a boy racer is. Scania lorry!

opinion guy

peasant wrote: »

Anyone remember the oil crisis of 1973?

In Germany they had several car-free Sundays ...no driving allowed

Damn you are old!!!!!:p

CiniO

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Apparently trucks can still go 120kph. So forget about your M3, the fastest thing for a boy racer is. Scania lorry!

How can trucks go 120 km/h if they are limited to 90km/h?

CiniO

Yakuza wrote: »

I'm over in Spain for a week, and happened to catch an article on the news; from next week they're reducing the motorway speed limits to 110km/h to save fuel (Libya supplies a good chunk of Spanish fuel) like what was done in the US in the 70's.

From my experience of driving in Spain (over the last 17 years), I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference; folks will be 20-30 km/h over the limit, instead of 10-20km/h as they are now.

What was the limit before change? 120? 130?
And pretty much if in Ireland it doesn't make any difference if you are speeding by 20 or 30 km/h because penalty is the same, but I thing Ireland is unique here.
Most countries (as I suppose Spain as well) have penalties adjusted to how much you are speeding.

F.E that's how it looks like in Germany
http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/traffic-violations.html

CiniO

Max_Damage wrote: »

Isn't 55mph in top gear the most efficient speed?

Depends on a car. On some might be lower, quite unlikely that to be higher than this.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

It will probably save fuel but it's hard to know unless they try it.
Dropping to 110 from 120 shouldn't be too much, speeders will speed anyway so it won't affect them.

In Poland from 1st January 2011 they increased motorway speed limit from 130km/h to 140km/h.
I actually think it didn't change a single thing.
Everyone are still driving the same as they used to.

Yakuza

CiniO wrote: »

What was the limit before change? 120? 130?
And pretty much if in Ireland it doesn't make any difference if you are speeding by 20 or 30 km/h because penalty is the same, but I thing Ireland is unique here.
Most countries (as I suppose Spain as well) have penalties adjusted to how much you are speeding.

F.E that's how it looks like in Germany
http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/traffic-violations.html

Current limit is 120, like Ireland. I don't think they have graduated penalties either.

CiniO

Yakuza wrote: »

Current limit is 120, like Ireland. I don't think they have graduated penalties either.

Of course they do.

[Speeding Fines and Penalties In Spain

60 in a 50 zone, 100 in a 90 zone, 110 in a 100 zone and 132 in a 120 zone: No penalty

61-80 in a 50, 121-130 in a 90, 111-130 in a 100, 133-152 in a 120: 100 fine, no points.

81-90 in a 50, 121-130 in a 90, 131-140 in a 100, 153-162 in a 120: 140 fine, 2 points.

131-140 in a 90, 141-150 in a 100, 163-172 in a 120: 200 fine, 3 points.

141-150 in a 90, 151-165 in a 100, 173-198 in a 120: 300 fine, 4 points.

91-97 in a 50, 151-158 in a 90, 166-174 in a 100, 199-208 in a 120: 380 fine, 6 points.

98-104 in a 50, 159-166 in a 90, 175-183 in a 100, 219 to 218 in a 120: 450 fine, 6 points.

105+ in a 50, 167+ in a 90, 184+ in a 100, 219+ in a 120: 520 fine, 6 points.

Seweryn

Max_Damage wrote: »

Isn't 55mph in top gear the most efficient speed?

No. 50 mph for example is more economical speed than 55 mph for any standard car.

Yakuza

CiniO wrote: »

Of course they do.

Good to know, thanks In all my years driving here, it never occured to me that there would be a graduated system. I just assumed it was like our basic one. I generally try to keep it on / around the limit (per my GPS and not the car readout) so I haven't had to find out the hard way (touch wood!).

Anan1

Yakuza wrote: »

I just think there's a bit too much nanny-state-ism about it; if people want to save fuel, let them drive slower, but don't force them to do it.

And I agree with you on that point. But claiming that cars won't legally be able to use 6th and will therefore consume more fuel is self-evidently ridiculous. Just because an opinion is ascribed to an 'industry expert' doesn't mean you should accept it without asking yourself whether it makes sense.

CiniO

Yakuza wrote: »

Good to know, thanks In all my years driving here, it never occured to me that there would be a graduated system. I just assumed it was like our basic one. I generally try to keep it on / around the limit (per my GPS and not the car readout) so I haven't had to find out the hard way (touch wood!).

As I said before I never seen any other country than Ireland where there wouldn't be a graduated system for speeding.

BTW - At the moment according to old speed limit (120) you can go 132 without any consequences. And the most severe penalty (520 euros) is only when you exceed 219 km/h.

Matt Simis

peasant wrote: »

Anyone else wonder if cops would maybe, just maybe, also be impounded too opening up such awesome AutoBahns to be used solely for VMAX attempts by the brave few?
:pac:

ottostreet

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Apparently trucks can still go 120kph. So forget about your M3, the fastest thing for a boy racer is. Scania lorry!

really?

JJJJNR

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Apparently trucks can still go 120kph. So forget about your M3, the fastest thing for a boy racer is. Scania lorry!

Fuk your scania I've a... ahh nevermind

Solnskaya

If fuel is scarce, they can set whatever limits they like, people will be reducing their speeds anyway to conserve whatever juice they can lay their hands on. If the filling station only gives a customer 20 litres per fill, only a luder will be hammering it to burn that up. I hope not, but this fuel scarcity thing could become a real problem in the next few weeks. Noticed when I filled up today that it was at 149.9c/l in all my local stations. Saucy.

Yakuza

Anan1 wrote: »

And I agree with you on that point. But claiming that cars won't legally be able to use 6th and will therefore consume more fuel is self-evidently ridiculous. Just because an opinion is ascribed to an 'industry expert' doesn't mean you should accept it without asking yourself whether it makes sense.

I didn't, but also wanted to know what all the knowlegeable folks here thought. I'm coming back to Ireland today, will enjoy my last legal 120+ blast down the motorway to Madrid. Back later

tobsey

I spent over €70 to fill a tank of diesel yesterday for the first time. I was driving from Swords to Dundalk at about 140. As I approached Drogheda I saw that the consumption was 6.1l/100km. I slowed 95-100 and kept that speed for the the rest of the journey up and back. Got the consumption down to 4.6, probably would have been below four if I'd took it handy the whole way.





How sad am I?

shedweller

tobsey wrote: »

I spent over €70 to fill a tank of diesel yesterday for the first time. I was driving from Swords to Dundalk at about 140. As I approached Drogheda I saw that the consumption was 6.1l/100km. I slowed 95-100 and kept that speed for the the rest of the journey up and back. Got the consumption down to 4.6, probably would have been below four if I'd took it handy the whole way.





How sad am I?

Solnskaya wrote: »

If the filling station only gives a customer 20 litres per fill, only a luder will be hammering it to burn that up. I hope not, but this fuel scarcity thing could become a real problem in the next few weeks. Noticed when I filled up today that it was at 149.9c/l in all my local stations. Saucy.

Not sad at all. Kudos for trying. Were you late, did the world stop turning? If this craic keeps up we'll all be at it and not to save fuel as such but to avoid running out due to fuel being rationed. Assuming it gets rationed in the first place of course.

dr.fuzzenstein

mike65 wrote: »

Just as well there are no Greens left

Seriously though if this happens here, the limits will NEVER go back up.

To quote Clarkson, speed limits are like herpes, once you have them, you'll never get rid of them.

tobsey

shedweller wrote: »

Not sad at all. Kudos for trying. Were you late, did the world stop turning? If this craic keeps up we'll all be at it and not to save fuel as such but to avoid running out due to fuel being rationed. Assuming it gets rationed in the first place of course.

No in no rush at all. My sister is in college up there and she missed the bus when I went to drop her to it in the afternoon. I said I'd drop her up after the rugby instead. She just wanted to be there before 8.

It was half 6 on a Sunday evening and I just said to myself I'm in no rush to get home so may as well take it handy.

CiniO

Funny that in UK they want to do something opposite.
They want to raise motorway speed limits to 80MPH.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/move-to-raise-motorway-limit-to-80mph-will-boost-economy-2227581.html

shedweller

Well thats one way of raising tax revenue!

Yakuza

Just as an addendum; while driving the hire car to Madrid to catch my plane, I drove a few stretches with the cruise control set 110 km/h (using GPS, not the speedo, which was overstating by about 8%) in both 5th and 6th. The stetches were roughly the same length and level (ish).

The car was a 318d (2010 I presume, hard to tell with Spanish plates, 70k km on the clock so well run-in ). Two adults, 3 kids and a full boot.

In 5th - the car was doing 2300 rpm and the instantaneous fuel consumption was hovering around 7 l/100km.

In 6th - 1900 rpm and roughly 5.9 l/100km (needle was just to the left of 6)

I didn't reset the trip computer's reading as I wanted that for the overall trip (got 6.2 l/100 km, not bad for about 450 motorway and 75 city).

So, as a result of my non-scientific and statistically insignificant test; a 318d is perfectly capable of doing 110 km/h in 6th (but much slower and I'd say it would be struggling)

Seth Brundle

and the calls have started here:

from today's Oirish Times letters

Madam, – Ireland should follow Spain’s example and reduce the speed limit on motorways and regional roads by 10km/h. This will not alone save petrol, diesel and money, it will also save lives. A rare win-win for everyone in these difficult times. – Yours, etc,

Dr DECLAN BEDFORD,
Gainstown, Navan,
Co Meath.

I never did like Navanman

Yakuza

Homer Simpson wrote:

"Sure, it'll save a few lives, but millions will be late!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_We_Was

Tabnabs

Let the good times role again;)

Since March speed limits on Spain’s motorways have been reduced to save money, but from July 1 they will revert to 120 kilometres per hour.

Trimming the limit by just 10 kph has saved over 450 million euros says the government, but with the weakening of the price of oil, the measure is no longer needed.

source

Guy:Incognito

Tabnabs wrote: »

Let the good times role again;)



source

That seems like stupid economics there. We saved 450m but the cost of stuff goes down so lets use more of it instead of saveing even more at the reduced price even though we just proved we dont actually need to use it in the first place.

Is there some sort of first past the post prize for whoever uses the ;ast bit of oil or what?

CiniO

Tabnabs wrote: »

Let the good times role again;)



source

No matter how I count it, I can't see how did they got this 450 million euros!

PAULWATSON

A few totalitarian overtones in this move, no?

corktina

CiniO wrote: »

Funny that in UK they want to do something opposite.
They want to raise motorway speed limits to 80MPH.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/move-to-raise-motorway-limit-to-80mph-will-boost-economy-2227581.html

well that makes sense in a twisted sort of way. Most people are exceeding the 70 limit anyway by quite a margin, so if you raise the limit to 80 AND ENFORCE IT then you will actually slow down the fastest of drivers who use the most fuel.In my experiance, you can drive on Britains motorways with impunity at about 90mph.

911s

I seem to remember that the Irish national speed limit of 60 mph was reduced to either 50 or 55 mph during the 70's fuel crisis and was upped to 60 mph again when the crisis was over.

Al Capwned

Max_Damage wrote: »

Isn't 55mph in top gear the most efficient speed?

That's too much of a generalisation, i'm afraid. Figures would differ wildly, depending on fuel type, engine size, driving condition, the alignment of the planets etc......