young and upcoming players like davy morris??

DARK-KNIGHT

hi was talkin to a guy in local club last night and he was saying davy is having a disastrous season..

such talent really really good player is the pressure on top of him? do you think he went pro too early?

there was a pro am recently and he lost to a guy that really isnt that good he rarely plays amateur and is a reasonable player but still not great and he beat davy 4 - 1??

i personally love morris as a player he is gutsy as hell watched him a few times at amateur events in carlow etc..

so my main point is should the governing bodies advise young players to maybe wait til 20 or so before crossing the water to play pro..??

zack01

Agreed i think Morris is a super player, i honestly think the difference between him and the big names is just consistency, there are at least 50/60 players like Davy on the verge of a breakthrough, they might make it to the televised stages of an event just like Davy did at the World Open but thenthe next event lose 5-1 to another unknown.
Before they had an excuse that when they were knocked out of an event they had to wait a month or so before the next tournament but from this season on they really dont have an excuse, they are tournaments on nearly every week, and i believe if players like Davy are to progress in the game they have to play as much as they can.
Regarding the age i think players should be allowed to at least try to turn pro from 16, the new WPBSA Q School will be staring soon and players from all over the world will be attempting to win one of the pro ticket spots on offer,
If the player has talent then that will show,yes there is pressure but unless they play from a young age at this level then they will never get used to it.
There have been many players like Davy over the years who having won their national amateur title went on to become pro and never really ammounted to anything normally through no fault of their own, players like Stephen Murphy, Stephen O'Connor and even further back to the likes of Paddy Browne were all fantastic players who looked to have had a great future in front of them but it just never happened.
I would'nt give up on Davy just yet he's currently ranked 70th in the rankings and can improve on that next season and hopefully break in the the top 64.

califano

You have a point but nowadays in sports across the board they are coming up younger and i think your falling behind the older you come into higher echelon sport. So waiting until 20 before entering its likely to get harder. Also i cant imagine young eager players obediently waiting till they are older when they know they are good and just want to get out there. They would soon get disenchanted and drift away. At that age they will have even less of an idea as to where they are versus the youngsters currently on the circuit.

If they are being protected until they mature then they arent getting in the same quality practice as fellas on the circuit playing against themselves in competition and practice together.

I think its one of those 'if your old enough your good enough' sports. The overseas players have it even harder yet the best of the rise to the top. They have to come from far without the english language in many cases than lads in the british isles.

The fact that sponsorship is so thin for prospective youngsters makes it harder mentally for them. Im sure often the case a players working class parents are paying his fees to get to events. This will naturally put more pressure on them especially if they arent winning regularly enough and making no meaningful events. Pressure and self doubt will pervade leading to more inconsistent performances. So lack of sponsorship to some degree is a factor but it still comes down to a persons level of ability(game play and mental) as to whether they sink or swim.

The best role governing bodies could play is to organise better sponsorship for players through grants, marketing etc so the player and his family have help with the expense in travel,hotel,food and event registration fees.

DARK-KNIGHT

The very finest player to ever grace our shores is Joe canning an absolutely marvellous talent but again went to England young and got swallowed up IMO if Joe had have been better looked after I honestly think he could have been world champion!! No one Doherty O'Brien would have a patch on the natural ability Joe had on the table, I seen him go back to club after few pints having not played for over a year and knock in consecutive centuries on the pro table in celbridge!!

If only Joe had a head for the game we would have had another world champion I'm sure of it

DARK-KNIGHT

And if joe does happen to read this respect to you Joe you are IMO a legend

califano

Well they say snooker is 90% between the ears and Joe obviously doesnt have it there as much which is probably more of a stumbling block as someone with less ability but a better work ethic and mental balance.

DARK-KNIGHT

Rounders are u familiar with Joe?? Believe me he was and probably still is amazing he has not held a cue in prob 3 years

zack01

Don't really know how you can say Joe Canny is the finest player from these shores, it may be your own personal opinion, possibly because you know him or play in Celbridge with him, but there have been far better players than Canny who have come from Ireland.
Of hand I can think of at least two dozen amateurs over the last thirty years who were better than Canny.
He was a good player, represented Ireland in Home Internationals etc but as far as being the finest? Not a chance.
Names like Jimmy Long, Paul Ennis, Mick Kane, Paul Watchthorn, and one of the finest amateur players I've ever seen Gay Burns would be better talents than Canny.

califano

No DARK-KNIGHT i dont know Joe, ive never heard of him before actually.

blueyedson

zack01 wrote: »

Don't really know how you can say Joe Canny is the finest player from these shores, it may be your own personal opinion, possibly because you know him or play in Celbridge with him, but there have been far better players than Canny who have come from Ireland.
Of hand I can think of at least two dozen amateurs over the last thirty years who were better than Canny.
He was a good player, represented Ireland in Home Internationals etc but as far as being the finest? Not a chance.
Names like Jimmy Long, Paul Ennis, Mick Kane, Paul Watchthorn, and one of the finest amateur players I've ever seen Gay Burns would be better talents than Canny.

Hi Zack, I've read many of your posts and enjoyed, good to hear the stories from around the circuits.

Have to disagree with this post here. I used to play a good bit myself and I've seen Joe Canny playing many times over the years.

In my opinion Doherty is by far the best irish snooker player ever. Canny is arguably the most naturally gifted Irish player ever. I've seen him pick up house cues and make several centurys. He was a remarkable long potter and touch second to none. When other top amataur practised with him he was often untouchable. What he lacked was the mental toughness needed for the game and his tactital game would not be the best.

I've never seen Jimmy Long or Watchhorn playing, I've seen Paul ennis and Mick Kane playing. Of them I would rate Paul somewhere up there with Joe, although Mick was very talanted he was not in the same class.

Joe played in a few world amateur champs, I could be wrong but I think the best he done was a semi final. He was twice Irish champion, could have been more as he packed the game in around 30 mark. He once practised with Ronnie and I heard Ronnie won 5-4 and they both knocked in century after century.

zack01

Hi
As i said Joe Canny was a good player, you don't win the Irish Amateurs twice if your a mug, but as you pointed out he did lack mental strength and although he had a decent tactical game it was not good enough to compete with the stronger amateurs.
I remember watching Joe practice in the club in Celbridge years ago, i had never seen him play before and i was really impressed, but a few months later i saw him play in an exhibition match, i think against Doherty , and he froze completly, he couldnt string two or three balls together.

I mentioned Gay Burns and he really is one of the best amateurs to come out of this country, he came third in a very tough World Amateurs in New Zealand in 1986, he never turned pro which surprised a lot of people including myself, but even today when we bump into each other for a pint he tells me how he is still playing and knocking in tons.

Another player who was a great amateur and turned pro Stephen Murphy was a big dissappointment, he won his pro ticket the hard way in 1989 by winning one of the several WPBSA pro am events, he turned pro the same time as Wattana and at that time there was not really that much between them.
He reached a few televised events most notably the Cruicble where he lost in the first round to Hendry, he was also a member of the Irish team that reached the final of the snooker world cup in 1996.
Still to this day Stephen still plays albeit once or twice a month and he still knocks in the big breaks.

I suppose the point i'm trying to make is that there are so many good amateurs out there but once they turn pro, the struggle to make an impact, and Stephen Murphy was certainly one of them, i've no doubt that Joe Canny had great ability but they are so many players in clubs scattered throughout Ireland and the UK that knock in century after century in the club but take them out of the club and their game just is'nt there.

blueyedson

Well I take your point, I suppose the only real measure of talent is to prove yourself on the big stage. Its just a pity to see someone like Joe and his talent not used to its full potential.(think how much more Alex Higgins could have won had he a better head on his shoulders so to speak) On that note I believe Joe is not doing too well at the moment so all the best mate if you read this.

Would be nice to see some of the older crew like the names you mentioned come back and play a pro am of some sorts. Over to you Zack!

zack01

It would be great if someone was to organise some sort of a pro am event, but these guys are all twenty years older,have gotten married and have children, its more of a novelty to play snooker now, its not the be all and end all it used to be!
These lads used to spend ten hours a day in the club playing, they would'nt be getting away with that now!

I totally agree thats its a great pity to see wasted talent and i do send my best wishes to Joe, i remember him being a very likeable lad on and off the table.

All the best to him.