Labour should demand Enda isn't Taoiseach!

andrewire

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

Joey the lips

Knowing Pat Rabbitte and Eamonn Gilmore they will do nothing but demand demand demand. Its why i hope we DONT see a Fine Gael Labour govt. I would rather see the independents run with Fine Gale.

For me to say that is truly a breakthrough.

namloc1980

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

As a prospective junior coalition partner Labour are in no position to demand such a thing!

johngalway

FG should demand Gilmore attempt to balance a ball on his nose for five minutes straight on national TV to get into Government.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Syferus

Absolutely. Labour need to demand real leadership in Fine Gael. Like, err, Michael Noonan. Maybe Alan Dukes can be convinced to run in a by-election? Garett's still alive, too. The bigger (literally) Bruton, perhaps? That guy that lost a leadership challenge, though, I dunno.

Mmm, refried politicans. Tasty.

leincar

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

Really? Biffo never needed a script, had a reputation as a good debater and the rest is history.

djmarkus

I think i'd rather a FG/FF govt.

danbohan

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

this is the party that has joan burton as spokesman on finance !

Snakeblood

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

THEY SHOULD WRESTLE NUDE.

I suppose you could make it for the leadership of the country if you really wanted.

andrewire

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

Is that the only reason you think enda shouldnt be leader...because he cant debate or wouldnt win X factor.

Come up with a better reason for this argument and get back to me.

jank

Since when does the 2nd largest party make demands to the largest party....oh yea only in Labours world!

goz83

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

And why don't FG insist then that Gerry Adams become Labour Leader and Tanaiste by that reckoning? They will be shown the door.

Lawrence1895

Isn't the Taoiseach voted by the Dail? And what happens, if Enda doesn't get the required majority?

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that the only reason you think enda shouldnt be leader...because he cant debate or wouldnt win X factor.

Come up with a better reason for this argument and get back to me.

I agree with your sentiment . .

However, the greatest trait that FG'rs seem to have when saying they want him as leader is that he did great work for the party, not necessarily the country.

If we cant see Kenny's qualities, then you are asking people to take the word of his colleagues that he is a good leader. You dont have to be a good speaker/debater to be able to discuss the most important economic policies that face our country without a script.

I really want Kenny to succeed, but until I see progresive achievements I will be very scepticle that he has what it takes. Nothing would make me happier then coming back in a couple of months and slagging this post off . .

johngalway

Drumpot wrote: »

However, the greatest trait that FG'rs seem to have when saying they want him as leader is that he did great work for the party, not necessarily the country.

Yet

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

Yet

You shouldnt have to be in power to inspire!

Most people believe that FGs rise is more to do with FF's capitulation, then Kenny's "abilities" . .

johngalway

Drumpot wrote: »

You shouldnt have to be in power to inspire!

Ah now.

You know as well as me, in this country you need to be in power to change the vast, vast majority of things. FF would have stolen Gadaffi's clothes if they thought it'd get them votes. When did they ever do cross Dail cooperation?

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

Ah now.

You know as well as me, in this country you need to be in power to change the vast, vast majority of things. FF would have stolen Gadaffi's clothes if they thought it'd get them votes. When did they ever do cross Dail cooperation?

Maybe in normal times, but considering the damage FF have done and how low they set the benchmark, it was there for any opposition leader to take the mantle. Even during the election Kenny was unable to inspire. Many people think that his party are the best of a bad bunch and that he is the least capable leader of FG/FF/Lab.

Now, its true that good speakers havent always been good leaders, but if our next Taoiseach did little else but inspire hope , while his cabinet engaged in progressive hard work in the backround, we would be getting somewhere. Its sad to say that we need an inspirational speaker more then ever now, as its alot harder to implement policies if you dont offer the people confidence and more importantly hope . . Put simply, you will work harder for less for a leader whom you think will lead you out of the coalmine . .

NewHillel

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree with your sentiment . .

However, the greatest trait that FG'rs seem to have when saying they want him as leader is that he did great work for the party, not necessarily the country.

If we cant see Kenny's qualities, then you are asking people to take the word of his colleagues that he is a good leader. You dont have to be a good speaker/debater to be able to discuss the most important economic policies that face our country without a script.

I really want Kenny to succeed, but until I see progresive achievements I will be very scepticle that he has what it takes. Nothing would make me happier then coming back in a couple of months and slagging this post off . .

It is clear that Enda was a drag on the party and that, without him, they'd have an overall majority. Surely it was equally obvious to him? Doesn't bode well for the country - strikes me that his priority will be: Enda, FG, country. Neither can I see him taking the hard decisions in relation to the public sector. As I've said before, best of a bad lot!

johngalway

Drumpot wrote: »

Maybe in normal times, but considering the damage FF have done and how low they set the benchmark, it was there for any opposition leader to take the mantle.

Why didn't Gilmore then? Gilmore for Taoiseach, anyone remember that? Why isn't Adams on TV musing over who SF should go into Govt with as the major party?

FG have had the best election result in their history. That's a fact.

I (genuinely) couldn't give a fig if Kenny was like Fr Stone in Fr Ted, once he get's the job done right and more money in our pockets and less stress in our lives.

All that's going to take time and a considerable amount of hard work.

Godge

This is a laughable thread. FG will be twice the seats of Labour. Labour will be lucky to see any of their main policies make the cut. They probably won't get the Department of Finance either. They are not in a position to make any demands.

Snakeblood

jank wrote: »

Since when does the 2nd largest party make demands to the largest party....oh yea only in Labours world!

Tell that to Michael Lowry and Jackie Healy-Rae.

Also, Labour haven't made any demands (yet), so you're talking rubbish.

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

Why didn't Gilmore then? Gilmore for Taoiseach, anyone remember that? Why isn't Adams on TV musing over who SF should go into Govt with as the major party?

FG have had the best election result in their history. That's a fact.

I (genuinely) couldn't give a fig if Kenny was like Fr Stone in Fr Ted, once he get's the job done right and more money in our pockets and less stress in our lives.

All that's going to take time and a considerable amount of hard work.

I take it your an FG supporter ?

I have stated many times that I hope Kenny excels at proving people wrong, but you can hardly blame anybody for being skeptical of his ability. It doesnt matter who you are, if people cant see your quality and your own party members say your greatest quality is keeping a party together, why do you think people should think that this would translate into a good leader ?

Im not saying he wont be a good leader, just that hes done little to suggest otherwise . And you can show leadership qualities while in opposition. Benchmarking Kenny against the others (who few have confidence in anyways) is a mute point.

johngalway

Drumpot wrote: »

I take it your an FG supporter ?

Yup.

Drumpot wrote: »

why do you think people should think that this would translate into a good leader ?

FG election results since he took over as leader. Also see the heave against him when a lot of people didn't see his quality and expected him to roll over and play dead.

Drumpot wrote: »

just that hes done little to suggest otherwise . And you can show leadership qualities while in opposition.

I don't agree. I'm not looking for, and not saying you're in favour of, this annoying concept of a charismatic leader. We had one, he made a hames of the country. I'll give substance a chance.

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

Yup.



FG election results since he took over as leader. Also see the heave against him when a lot of people didn't see his quality and expected him to roll over and play dead.



I don't agree. I'm not looking for, and not saying you're in favour of, this annoying concept of a charismatic leader. We had one, he made a hames of the country. I'll give substance a chance.

Just to elaborate, I wasnt suggesting an FG supporter cannot speak up their leader. I personally find (not being a party member) when speaking to party members they do struggle to be objective, particularly when it comes to negatives of their own party (doesnt mean you are wrong, just an observation I have made).

Being able to hold onto a position power against the perceived will of the public, for the perceived greater good of a party is a trait people associate with FF. It means you can play party politics to keep yourself at the top of your party, not that you are a good leader for a country.I wouldnt be bigging that up as the kind of leadership quality that Kenny represents!

On your last point we do agree. I am just making the point that for people who are not privy to Enda Kenny's qualities, in the absence of credible public speaking (or indeed discussing your partys policies), you are asking people to simply trust that it will all work out for the best. . Thats a big leap of faith. Among many things we need political reform desperatley. If Kenny pushes for true progressive reform, I will certainly jump on his bandwagon and promote his cause . . I know this is not the most important problems facing our new government, but it doesnt need to be forgotten as they will have plenty of TDs who are not focused soley on the bailout/economy!

johngalway

Drumpot wrote: »

Being able to hold onto a position power against the perceived will of the public, for the perceived greater good of a party is a trait people associate with FF. It means you can play party politics to keep yourself at the top of your party, not that you are a good leader for a country.

My basic point, in all of these types of threads boils down to this:

If he fails, fine, then it'll be a proven. But, he hasn't had the chance of success or failure yet. His job is FG leader, I think he's done it very well. If he does as well as Taoiseach, Ireland will do very well.

Fozzie Bear

andrewire wrote: »

And in his place, another Fine Gael TD such as Richard Bruton. We need leadership and someone who doesn't need a script to give an answer.

I don't think Labour could or should to be honest. The people voted FG knowing Enda would be Taoiseach so surely its the will of the people? How could Labour demand that this be changed?

Mad_Max

1731 Dublin North East: Labour's Tommy Broughan, who is set to take the second seat in, has said that Labour would have to be in the driving seat in any government in which they would participate.

Asked what would constitute being in the driving seat, he said that the Department of Finance would be important, as would the Office of the Taoiseach.

I can't stop laughing at this. It looks like there's at least one in the Labour party that thinks like the OP.

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

My basic point, in all of these types of threads boils down to this:

If he fails, fine, then it'll be a proven. But, he hasn't had the chance of success or failure yet. His job is FG leader, I think he's done it very well. If he does as well as Taoiseach, Ireland will do very well.

I am a complete cynic and to be honest I have been battling with friends who are party members of FF, with the manner in which party's justify their actions. I have seen little (even from your comments) to suggest that any of the other parties will put Ireland no1 on its agenda, even at the expense of its own popularity.

There are two lines of thought with regards to the Enda Kenny debate. One is that the party knows better then the Irish People and Kenny will prove us all wrong, in which case well played FG. The other is that FG are no differant to FF in that they do not listen to what the public want (differant leader) and they will treat people with the same kind of respect that FF got used to doing !

There in lies the quandry for me. I do believe in the concept of giving somebody a chance to prove their worth, but I dont think Kenny has shown much to be deserving of that chance, other then by pleasing FG members. This is where party members seem to struggle to see the falacy of their argument. What is good for FG is not necessarily good for Ireland. I used to get so fked off with FF members saying "this is the way its done in politics" as though I was dumb and should just accept ridiculous policies used by parties at the expense of the electorate.

For example, if Lenihan put the monies into banks on hold to let other partys deal with the problem, soley for a FF strategy to dump the opposition in it, I wouldnt be surprised and it sickens me. However, with the whole banking situation so serious, I would like to believe that partys would put the interest of the country above their partys interest.

So to keep it short . . :P If kenny's best strength is that he is good for FG, I have little confidence in his ability and will do until I see what he is capable of. I dont consider it as proof that he is a good leader . . Its nothing against FG, I just dont trust any of the parties to do the right thing above their partys interests.

johngalway

Seeing as you're a self confessed cynic :P I'll leave it at this.

Leading a party is leading people. In the "meltdown" people said that's it, no more FG.

Kenny took decisions, placed people in positions and FG is now the largest party in the country.

For someone who only now get's the chance to lead the country, rather than the party, that'll do me as a start

FF led Ireland into this "meltdown", FG will lead Ireland out of it.

Drumpot

johngalway wrote: »

Seeing as you're a self confessed cynic :P I'll leave it at this.

Leading a party is leading people. In the "meltdown" people said that's it, no more FG.

Kenny took decisions, placed people in positions and FG is now the largest party in the country.

For someone who only now get's the chance to lead the country, rather than the party, that'll do me as a start

FF led Ireland into this "meltdown", FG will lead Ireland out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mJ_7SqKxGI&feature=player_embedded