web server performance out of ireland

frost

I'm not sure where to post this, mods please move it if I've picked the wrong place...

I'm a web designer/hosting reseller, and have about 100 CMS websites (Drupal) on a Hosting Ireland VPS. We are ready to move to something with more resources.

I'm trying to assess the performance impact (for the users) of moving these websites from Ireland to a server abroad. I've priced dedicated servers in Ireland but costs abroad are significantly lower (sadly). I'm looking at UK, Germany or USA.

Below are traceroutes and pings for our present host, a german and a usa one. I didn't know a good UK one so I havent done that.

Thanks for any comments on these results, or general comments that might help me make a decision on this.

Mike

idologic.com (USA)
Ping
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 134.469/203.840/312.186/50.189 ms
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 134.502/142.929/159.925/8.111 ms

traceroute to idologic.com (69.61.87.101), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 2.282 ms 1.522 ms 1.467 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 438.754 ms 183.545 ms 186.149 ms
3 ge-1-1-8.pe1.prp.bbh-prp.eircom.net (86.43.246.17) 189.591 ms 192.263 ms 151.612 ms
4 tenge-4-1-1.core2.srl.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.65) 183.376 ms 162.749 ms 160.030 ms
5 lag-1.core1.srl.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.61) 132.418 ms 153.480 ms 189.047 ms
6 tenge-2-2-1.pe1.thn.the-thn.eircom.net (86.43.253.114) 196.635 ms 183.658 ms 162.260 ms
7 ge7-1-0.corea.thn.london.eircom.net (86.43.244.194) 200.696 ms 172.041 ms 180.802 ms
8 xe-11-0-0.lon11.ip4.tinet.net (77.67.76.161) 118.085 ms * 158.078 ms
9 xe-0-0-0.atl11.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.183.141) 296.507 ms 229.007 ms 269.170 ms
10 internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net (77.67.71.70) 280.247 ms 345.490 ms 358.266 ms
11 border2.tge3-1-bbnet1.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.0.19) 349.746 ms * border2.tge-4-1-bbnet2.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.0.83) 346.365 ms
12 cyberwurx-3.border2.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.3.122) 279.671 ms 368.205 ms 318.500 ms
13 atl1-cust2.ethe2-8.4332.cyberwurx.com (69.61.56.206) 269.450 ms 400.946 ms 442.141 ms
14 oxygen.webserverdns.com (69.61.87.101) 332.470 ms 321.622 ms 344.918 ms

traceroute to idologic.com (69.61.87.101), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.428 ms 1.135 ms 1.079 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 30.628 ms 30.650 ms 27.330 ms
3 ge-1-1-8.pe1.prp.bbh-prp.eircom.net (86.43.246.17) 30.501 ms 45.391 ms 48.698 ms
4 tenge-4-1-1.core2.srl.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.65) 27.450 ms 27.215 ms 44.985 ms
5 lag-1.core1.srl.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.61) 28.322 ms 61.260 ms 25.776 ms
6 tenge-2-2-1.pe1.thn.the-thn.eircom.net (86.43.253.114) 36.638 ms 70.207 ms 37.289 ms
7 ge7-1-0.corea.thn.london.eircom.net (86.43.244.194) 38.511 ms 46.337 ms 49.648 ms
8 xe-11-0-0.lon11.ip4.tinet.net (77.67.76.161) 68.653 ms 37.881 ms 37.679 ms
9 xe-0-0-0.atl11.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.183.141) 158.177 ms 160.260 ms 171.135 ms
10 internap-gw.ip4.tinet.net (77.67.71.70) 176.185 ms 140.421 ms 128.220 ms
11 border2.tge3-1-bbnet1.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.0.19) 143.751 ms 137.082 ms border2.tge-4-1-bbnet2.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.0.83) 136.095 ms
12 cyberwurx-3.border2.acs002.pnap.net (64.94.3.122) 132.093 ms 137.895 ms 189.382 ms
13 atl1-cust2.ethe2-8.4332.cyberwurx.com (69.61.56.206) 133.487 ms 139.352 ms 137.952 ms
14 oxygen.webserverdns.com (69.61.87.101) 145.248 ms 165.903 ms 159.014 ms


hostingireland.ie
Ping results
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 31.528/40.761/62.910/11.299 ms
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 30.191/35.246/54.093/8.181 ms

traceroute to hostingireland.ie (91.210.233.4), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.498 ms 1.339 ms 1.147 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 174.157 ms 181.314 ms 173.660 ms
3 ge-1-1-9.pa1.bay.chf-qrk.eircom.net (86.43.246.25) 169.936 ms 179.923 ms 170.266 ms
4 tenge-3-1-1.core2.prp.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.69) 198.604 ms 173.634 ms 153.211 ms
5 tenge-4-2-1.core2.dbn.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.45) 147.668 ms 154.603 ms 130.577 ms
6 tenge-1-2-1.pe2.6cr.6cr-6cr.eircom.net (86.43.255.98) 151.386 ms 377.144 ms 298.570 ms
7 ge4-0-0.peering1.tcy.dublin.eircom.net (86.43.244.133) 271.086 ms 286.692 ms 219.738 ms
8 inex-1.tra-r02.bk1.39122.as (193.242.111.35) 194.809 ms 124.080 ms 126.451 ms
9 ge-1-dr1-dub01.39122.as (81.17.240.74) 163.712 ms 143.588 ms 211.766 ms
10 240.42.ge0-0-3.dr-r02.bk2.39122.as (81.17.240.42) 160.063 ms * 325.064 ms
11 g0-0-1.acc-r01.bk2.39122.as (78.153.192.42) 204.730 ms 258.867 ms *
12 194-68.colo.sta.blacknight.ie (78.153.194.68) 203.833 ms 234.831 ms 241.523 ms

traceroute to hostingireland.ie (91.210.233.4), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.606 ms 1.430 ms 1.146 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 26.678 ms 26.332 ms 26.819 ms
3 ge-1-1-9.pa1.bay.chf-qrk.eircom.net (86.43.246.25) 27.530 ms 26.872 ms 26.789 ms
4 tenge-3-1-1.core2.prp.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.69) 26.301 ms 25.713 ms 26.747 ms
5 tenge-4-2-1.core2.dbn.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.45) 31.233 ms 28.182 ms 28.047 ms
6 tenge-1-2-1.pe2.6cr.6cr-6cr.eircom.net (86.43.255.98) 28.476 ms 27.950 ms 27.068 ms
7 ge4-0-0.peering1.tcy.dublin.eircom.net (86.43.244.133) 27.719 ms 28.013 ms 27.762 ms
8 inex-1.tra-r02.bk1.39122.as (193.242.111.35) 34.437 ms 37.516 ms 28.082 ms
9 ge-1-dr1-dub01.39122.as (81.17.240.74) 48.724 ms 50.218 ms 38.494 ms
10 240.42.ge0-0-3.dr-r02.bk2.39122.as (81.17.240.42) 29.995 ms 29.818 ms 29.378 ms
11 g0-0-1.acc-r01.bk2.39122.as (78.153.192.42) 31.947 ms 33.632 ms 39.948 ms
12 194-68.colo.sta.blacknight.ie (78.153.194.68) 29.987 ms 29.534 ms 28.877 ms



Hetzner.de
Ping results:
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 56.771/66.127/100.201/12.464 ms
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 57.578/64.437/83.177/8.589 ms

traceroute to hetzner.de (213.133.107.227), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.559 ms 1.349 ms 1.075 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 46.171 ms 74.768 ms 47.179 ms
3 ge-2-1-8.pa1.bay.chf-qrk.eircom.net (86.43.246.21) 27.394 ms 86.576 ms 50.027 ms
4 tenge-3-1-1.core2.prp.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.69) 40.390 ms 71.931 ms 28.700 ms
5 tenge-2-2-1.pe1.the.the-thn.eircom.net (86.43.253.110) 75.120 ms 52.347 ms 78.402 ms
6 ge7-1-0.corea.the.london.eircom.net (86.43.244.190) 54.594 ms 61.851 ms 104.704 ms
7 r1ams1.ce.init7.net (195.69.144.210) 113.396 ms 67.190 ms 65.272 ms
8 r1fra1.core.init7.net (77.109.128.153) 88.615 ms 74.487 ms 54.637 ms
9 gw-hetzner.init7.net (77.109.135.18) 78.762 ms 72.674 ms 66.711 ms
10 hos-bb1.juniper2.fs.hetzner.de (213.239.240.243) 80.717 ms 126.908 ms 99.178 ms
11 hos-tr1.ms-ex3k1.rz11.hetzner.de (213.239.236.67) 117.540 ms hos-tr4.ms-ex3k1.rz11.hetzner.de (213.239.236.115) 105.242 ms hos-tr3.ms-ex3k1.rz11.hetzner.de (213.239.236.99) 110.647 ms

traceroute to Hetzner.de (213.133.107.227), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.508 ms 1.454 ms 1.035 ms
2 b-ras1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (159.134.155.26) 68.120 ms 53.867 ms 30.429 ms
3 ge-2-1-8.pa1.bay.chf-qrk.eircom.net (86.43.246.21) 45.423 ms 27.922 ms 26.250 ms
4 tenge-3-1-1.core2.prp.core.eircom.net (86.43.252.69) 28.021 ms 63.096 ms 45.860 ms
5 tenge-2-2-1.pe1.the.the-thn.eircom.net (86.43.253.110) 63.040 ms 49.881 ms 67.046 ms
6 ge7-1-0.corea.the.london.eircom.net (86.43.244.190) 39.654 ms 39.520 ms 78.184 ms
7 r1ams1.ce.init7.net (195.69.144.210) 53.894 ms 48.059 ms 112.005 ms
8 r1fra1.core.init7.net (77.109.128.153) 52.858 ms 67.715 ms 52.749 ms
9 gw-hetzner.init7.net (77.109.135.18) 125.072 ms 208.105 ms 82.607 ms
10 hos-bb1.juniper1.fs.hetzner.de (213.239.240.242) 92.176 ms hos-bb1.juniper2.fs.hetzner.de (213.239.240.243) 74.560 ms 75.463 ms
11 hos-tr1.ms-ex3k1.rz11.hetzner.de (213.239.236.67) 61.304 ms hos-tr2.ms-ex3k1.rz11.hetzner.de (213.239.236.83) 82.331 ms 99.944 ms

Boskonay

Check out Irish cloud offerings - most of the benefits of a dedicated server, add to that all the benefits of cloud computing and high performance SAn, but at VPS prices...

frost

cloud sounds great for flexibility but (1) i havent heard enough feedback from people to know how good it is and (2) prices are still higher than a high spec dedicated server in europe

frost

Boskonay wrote: »

Check out Irish cloud offerings - most of the benefits of a dedicated server, add to that all the benefits of cloud computing and high performance SAn, but at VPS prices...

Boskonay, if you're connected to Dediserve, I suggest you declare that openly.

Boskonay

@frost - flexibility, scalability, performance and high availability and backup. Consider that to achieve similar with dedicated servers, you'd need two of them, configured for failover, and a backup solution, and you'd still have downtime if you needed more ram or larger disks - with cloud you don't.

I wasn't recommending dediserve specifically, nor did I mention them, but I am associated with them, and it is my homepage link, I merely suggested you explore cloud as an alternative to budget servers.

RichieD

I think you know the answer to this already frost.

For static sites or just your basic joomla/drupal blog setups it wont affect them massively.

If you are using any latency critical applications like voip, chat, games then you'll see a noticable downgrade in performance.

frost

thanks for everyone's replies. ok i've bit the bullet and gotten an unmanaged dedicated server from Hetzner, and have hired a sysadmin to manage it for me. Will post in a month or two how it's going....

Boskonay

Just be careful with the software raid on those, if you lose a disk your mileage may vary in terms of the machine staying online.

rolion

i have to say that your traceroute is done from same originating network:Eircom.And i bet you is from home too...

There is my trace route result using IBB:

Tracing route to idologic.com [69.61.87.101]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 18 ms 3 ms 3 ms DN11-ge-1-3-0-150-xxx.irishbroadband.ie
[ip.add.re.ss]
2 4 ms 16 ms 7 ms DN07-ae0-2-ibis-gw-1.irishbroadband.ie [89.127.1
97.1]
3 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms 212.162.17.153
4 13 ms 4 ms 3 ms ae-11-11.car1.Dublin1.Level3.net [4.69.136.93]
5 22 ms 17 ms 18 ms ae-5-5.ebr1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.136.90]
6 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms ae-1-51.edge3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.73]
7 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms 4.68.62.246
8 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms Internap-Atlanta.TenGigabitEthernet3-4.ar5.ATL1.
gblx.net [207.218.80.218]
9 111 ms 110 ms 120 ms border2.tge-4-1-bbnet2.acs002.pnap.net [64.94.0.
83]
10 109 ms 107 ms 105 ms cyberwurx-3.border2.acs002.pnap.net [64.94.3.122
]
11 110 ms 109 ms 110 ms atl1-cust2.ethe2-8.4332.cyberwurx.com [69.61.56.
206]
12 111 ms 110 ms 109 ms oxygen.webserverdns.com [69.61.87.101]

Trace complete.

Look at the latency from London over to State...massive !
I reckon that any hosting over the Ocean cable will be big reply time in any tcp comms.

Also,is not your 'home' originating route,but also end users originating networks matters...
I'm using GoDaddy and selected an European server due to latency over the State cable.

frost

sorry for resurrecting this, but i never did post back my experience with the Hetzner server in Germany. It has been really good; we have had occasional downtime and I don't have stats for how much, but really very little. They're very good about telling us about scheduled downtime which also is pretty rare. The performance has been very good, better and more consistent than the VPSs I've used here in Ireland.
Price of the Hetzner box + extra IPs + paying a server sysadmin is still cheaper than a dedicated box in Ireland. The box came with free external backup so I've got daily/weekly/monthly backups of everything, and knock wood so far havent needed it. I've got more than 100 Drupal sites on it, in fairness only a few get any significant traffic, but I've never run into a bandwidth issue to date.

I think if I were to do this again I would consider cloud more seriously, but for now this is working really well for us.