laymans explaination how votes are counted please?

positivenote

hi all, can someone please explain to me in layman terminology how the second, third, forth and so on systems of votes are considered? If i vote X no1 and Y no2 when and why is my no 2 considered... is it defo considered at all?
thanks and sorry if its been explained before but want to vote tomorrow knowing the best way other than one vote going to one candidate and thats it?

paul71

positivenote wrote: »

hi all, can someone please explain to me in layman terminology how the second, third, forth and so on systems of votes are considered? If i vote X no1 and Y no2 when and why is my no 2 considered... is it defo considered at all?
thanks and sorry if its been explained before but want to vote tomorrow knowing the best way other than one vote going to one candidate and thats it?

The only mathemathical way your 2nd choice will not be considered is if your first choice is the last to be elected, or he is amoung the last remaining to oppose him/her therefore it is important that you at least place 2 on your list of preferances.

corkkitteh

positivenote wrote: »

hi all, can someone please explain to me in layman terminology how the second, third, forth and so on systems of votes are considered? If i vote X no1 and Y no2 when and why is my no 2 considered... is it defo considered at all?
thanks and sorry if its been explained before but want to vote tomorrow knowing the best way other than one vote going to one candidate and thats it?

Hi positivenote

The way your vote is transferred is as follows:

All number 1 votes are counted first. The candidate with the least votes is then eliminated and their votes are redistributed based on the number 2 votes on the ballot papers.

If you vote - Mary 1, John 2, Pat 3.

If Mary is eliminated on the 4th count your vote is then distributed to John. If John has since been elected or eliminated (on Count 1, count 2 or count 3) the vote is distributed to your number 3 - Pat

Hope this makes sense.

RetroBate

I've been voting for 40 years and still don't fully understand it.

You don't need to know to vote. Just vote your preferences 1,2,3, etc. and leave the rest to the people who are paid to do it.

If the person who you vote 1 for is eliminated your 2 will be added to the total of his/her votes.

If the person who you vote 1 for is elected his surplus votes (no of his votes over the quota) will be distributed randomly to the nr. 2s. Your nr.2 may or may not be distributed.

The above applies to the distribution of nr.3s etc.

I'm sure someone will say I've got it all wrong but who cares.

xoxyx

First one, then two. Three would usually follow...

(:D Sorry - couldn't resist!)

My explanation (although there are many more knowledgeable than me) would be that all your first preference votes will go towards your preferred candidate. However, there is a quota of votes that are needed for a candidate to be elected. Once a person reaches that quota, any surplus votes will be given to your next in line. If your second preference reaches the quota, any surplus votes will be moved to the next preferred candidate, and so on.

As was pointed out to me in another thread, if a vote of your goes to a candidate who is eliminated (due to not getting enough votes to qualify), then your next preference will get their vote.

I suppose it's really just a way of making sure that every vote counts, and if somebody can get in without needing your vote, then somebody else that you choose will get the benefit.

If you don't want anybody but your main preference to get your vote, then leave the rest of the ballot paper blank. Alternatively, if you want to cast votes in order of preference but don't want to risk your vote being moved from one candidate to another, you can leave a blank space in between. For example, if you leave a blank space between your #1 and your #3, then any votes after the blank space (anything after #1) won't be counted. Leaving a blank space effectively means that any surplus votes will fall into the void and not be counted.

I think that the way the required number of votes to be elected works is that you take the number of candidates in a constituency (let's say 11) and then you divide the number of votes by the number of candidates plus 1 (so 12). Once you get more than a 12th of the vote, you're in. Is that right at all or am I dreaming hearing this??

Kristopherus

Primetime last night had a very good explanation. www.rte.ie/player.

RetroBate

xoxyx wrote: »

I think that the way the required number of votes to be elected works is that you take the number of candidates in a constituency (let's say 11) and then you divide the number of votes by the number of candidates plus 1 (so 12). Once you get more than a 12th of the vote, you're in. Is that right at all or am I dreaming hearing this??

Nearly right.

You divide the number of valid votes (total minus the spoilt votes) by the number of seats and then add 1.
e.g.
valid votes = 60,000
number of seats = 4
quota = 60,000/4 + 1 = 15,001

Get over the quota and you're elected.
You can be elected without reaching the quota if nobody else has a chance of overtaking you.

xoxyx

Cheers RetroBate! I knew I was missing something!

Daftendirekt

RetroBate wrote: »

Nearly right.

You divide the number of valid votes (total minus the spoilt votes) by the number of seats and then add 1.
e.g.
valid votes = 60,000
number of seats = 4
quota = 60,000/4 + 1 = 15,001

Are you sure that's the way it's calculated? Wouldn't it be:

1 + ((No. of Valid Votes) / (No. of Seats+1))


So in your example...

1 + (60,000 / 5) =

1 + 12,000 =

Quota: 12,001

xoxyx

Same. I think that was what was meant though. No. of candidates plus 1 divided into valid votes.

xoxyx

xoxyx wrote: »

Same. I think that was what was meant though. No. of candidates plus 1 divided into valid votes.

Number of seats plus 1 divided into the valid poll, then add one. The number of candidates doesn't matter.

The logic is that if you're electing 4 people, the quota has to be a number that 4 candidates can score - but that is impossible for 5 candidates to score.

So if there are 40,000 votes and 4 seats, the quota is 40,000 divided by 5, then add 1 - which is 8,001.

If your quota was 8,000, it would be too little. With 40,000 votes, it's possible for 5 candidates to score 8,000 each. But you've only got 4 seats, so you'd have one winner too many. But with a quota of 8,001, there's no way 5 people can reach that number. Even if the voting was really tight and 4 candidates got 8,001 each, that would be 32,004 votes - leaving only 7,996 for the 5th candidate.