Laurel Lodge Bus lane, nullified by new road markings

BostonB

I note with amusement, and disbelieving that they blocked the bus lane (and new QBC) with the new road markings at new parkland lights in Laurel Lodge. Where there were two lanes before the parklands and new traffic lights, the new markings force all traffic (including buses) into one lane thus blocking the bus lane.

On the other side of parklands the junction used to have two lanes leaving the estate and one coming in. Traffic coming into Laurel Lodge turning into park now has their own turning lane. Thus reducing the lanes for traffic leaving the estate back to one lane.

Considering all the work they did in adding a new bus lanes taking away part of the green, and in other places. its seems incredible they've now undone it by forcing all traffic down to one lane in two places. Instant bottleneck.

It will probably be ignored by the traffic. But if anyone does try to follow the new markings, it will cause massive delay, especially for buses.

BostonB

Photos...

http://i54.tinypic.com/2rnfwuw.jpg

http://tinypic.com/r/1zyes20/7

http://tinypic.com/r/2dv23he/7

This is how is was before (I think there was a yellow box recently)

http://tinypic.com/r/ixwcpt/7

http://tinypic.com/r/x59vr4/7

AlekSmart

Boston B:I note with amusement, and disbelieving that they blocked the bus lane (and new QBC) with the new road markings at new parkland lights in Laurel Lodge. Where there were two lanes before the parklands and new traffic lights, the new markings force all traffic (including buses) into one lane thus blocking the bus lane.

Crikey BostonB,but those are real corkers alright.

Howevewr it`s pretty much par for the course for these matters as it merely underlines the significant disassociation from each other,and reality,which our Local Authorities have when it comes to Public Transport.

This sort of Paddywhackery does`nt just happen,we have a significant and significantly funded public body to plan,devise and impliment this imbicility....


I give you..The Quality Bus Network PROJECT Office...(Presuming here,that the Laurel Lodge stuff is a real live project).


http://www.dublincity.ie/roadsandtraffic/qbnprojectoffice/Pages/QBNProjectOffice.aspx

Read this colourful PR stuff BEFORE having another look at BostonB`s photos.

The role of the QBN Project Office covers the areas of:

* Planning
* Programming
* Design
* Public consultation/approvals
* Procurement/construction

for bus priority measures in the Dublin region.

The QBN Project Office works to deliver the Quality Bus Network with:

* Local Authorities
* Garda Siochana
* Dublin Transportation Office
* National Roads Authority
* Department of Transport
* Railway Procurement Agency
* Bus operating companies

‘Platform for Change’ proposes a further programme of investment in on-street bus priority measures. The programme will complement the current Quality Bus Corridor programme and deliver an extended Quality Bus Network. The overall aim is to achieve a tight mesh of radial and orbital quality bus corridors linking the suburbs with each other and with the city centre. The measures to be implemented are as follows:

* enhancements and extensions to the existing Quality Bus Corridors
* the construction of new Quality Bus Corridors
* other bus priority measures on routes where the provision of a full Quality Bus Corridor facility would neither be feasible or justifiable. The emphasis will be on facilitating improved bus access to major residential, retail and employment centres.

Each of the bus priority schemes will be implemented in an integrated manner taking account of the needs of all road users including:

* local residents
* businesses
* cyclists
* pedestrians
* mobility impaired and disabled

Read a summary of ‘A Platform for Change’ from the DTO Website

Accident remedial measures and improved facilities for bus passengers will also be provided.

Who`s In charge of this country....:rolleyes:

Victor

They need to ban the right turn into Parklands or widen the road.

Of course, I'm not sure if the right turn 'lane' is needed if traffic lights are installed.

See drawing 6-7 here: http://www.dublincity.ie/ROADSANDTRAFFIC/QBNPROJECTOFFICE/QUALITYBUSCORRIDORS/Pages/CastleknockQBC.aspx

BostonB

Victor wrote: »

...
Of course, I'm not sure if the right turn 'lane' is needed if traffic lights are installed.

Exactly. It isn't. The traffic into the estate is never held up enough to warrant attention.

The whole reason for this is for a new pedestrian crossing. Which I thought were being sited in an odd position as its a really busy junction. Further up the road away from all junctions would have been much better. I thought it was just a crossing. So not a big deal. But I had no idea they were going to put lights on the whole junction which it hasn't needed for 30 years. The only reason the junction is slightly dangerous is the high speeds (unenforced limits) and blind junction. Two ramps would and a speed camera would have fixed that.

TBH I rarely drive through it at peak anymore. But it just looked nuts when I passed it this evening.

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

I give you..The Quality Bus Network PROJECT Office...(Presuming here that the Laurel Lodge stuff is a real live project).

http://www.dublincity.ie/roadsandtraffic/qbnprojectoffice/Pages/QBNProjectOffice.aspx

Read this colourful PR stuff BEFORE having another look at BostonB`s photos.

Who's in charge of this country....:rolleyes:

?? Now this is certainly a bizarre turn. When did the whole QBC stuff start, the early 90s?? and they still are behaving as though it's something new to be implemented??? They've been at it for almost two whole decades; it can't be that hard to do.

Well, it's too late now as far as who is in charge of the country; it's no longer the folk at Leinster House. Through the "principle of subsidiarity" though, they seem to have the idea that they can do whatever they want no matter how incompetently...

AlekSmart

CIE wrote: »

?? Now this is certainly a bizarre turn. When did the whole QBC stuff start /....

.....Well, it's too late now as far as who is in charge of the country; it's no longer the folk at Leinster House. Through the "principle of subsidiarity" though, they seem to have the idea that they can do whatever they want no matter how incompetently...

Excellent and pertininent point which quite accurately describes the Irish Administrative disease.

The overriding philosophy in modern Irish political arena has been to distance the executive from as much direct responsibility as possible for ANYTHING.

This has been spectacularly successful as madcap scheme after madcap scheme has been introduced,implimented and rammed down peoples throats with varying degrees of force.

The huge benefit of the "Principle of Subsidiarity"for the Political figure is the ability to shrug ones shoulders,trouser one`s bonus and waddle away when/if it all goes horribly wrong.

Just look at the list of possible suspects in that QBN piece....Gardai,Local Authorities,CIE,Private Operators,DTO,NRA,DOT...on and on it goes with the net effect being nobody will ever be identified as the eejit who saw this particular lunatic scheme through to it`s crazed implimentation.

The only possible outcome for the perpretrator of this baloney is....promotion :mad: :mad: :mad:

schemingbohemia

Where is Laurel Lodge and what bus routes are affected by this madness?

LXFlyer

I would ask the question though why did none of you who are objecting to this (and I agree it is daft) not make a submission to the QBN office when this was up for public consultation?

All of these schemes are put out to consultation at design stage and if people don't bother making a submission it's a bit like crying wolf!

LXFlyer

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Where is Laurel Lodge and what bus routes are affected by this madness?

Castleknock - route 37.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

I would ask the question though why did none of you who are objecting to this (and I agree it is daft) not make a submission to the QBN office when this was up for public consultation?

All of these schemes are put out to consultation at design stage and if people don't bother making a submission it's a bit like crying wolf!

Perhaps people want to trust a department whose only job is to provide quality bus lanes to do just that? Why should I need to examine the detail of the plan and tell qualified engineers that they're going to do it wrong? Do you examine a surgeons operating plan before going into surgery or do they trust him (or her) to do it right? You're clutching at straws here if you think you can pin the blame on anyone but the QBN.

Of course, it's possible that there is a legitimate reason for this design that we're not aware of.

Victor

lxflyer wrote: »

I would ask the question though why did none of you who are objecting to this (and I agree it is daft) not make a submission to the QBN office when this was up for public consultation?

All of these schemes are put out to consultation at design stage and if people don't bother making a submission it's a bit like crying wolf!

If you looked at the drawing the right turn lane wasn't in the initial proposal.

BostonB

How is was before (I think there was a yellow box recently)

http://tinypic.com/r/ixwcpt/7

http://tinypic.com/r/x59vr4/7

BostonB

Coincidentally was on the bus this morning...

http://tinypic.com/r/2n7pdu8/7
http://tinypic.com/r/al6ipy/7
http://tinypic.com/r/11lnfj5/7

At peak theres a tailback all the way through here.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps people want to trust a department whose only job is to provide quality bus lanes to do just that? Why should I need to examine the detail of the plan and tell qualified engineers that they're going to do it wrong? Do you examine a surgeons operating plan before going into surgery or do they trust him (or her) to do it right? You're clutching at straws here if you think you can pin the blame on anyone but the QBN.

Of course, it's possible that there is a legitimate reason for this design that we're not aware of.

I'm not trying to blame anyone - I am making the comment that people in this country tend not to make themselves heard as much as they should and that these projects all have public consultation phases. It is not like surgeons as you are trying to suggest. Regardless of how qualified the engineers are they often can miss things that would strike you and I as obvious!

That's why I made a submission on the Rathfarnham QBC plans for example that are currently being finalised - there were several locations where anyone who uses the QBC frequently would know of problems but that might not be that obvious otherwise. I also pointed out where I thought they were getting things right lest anyone suggest to the contrary.

In this case as Victor says this was not in the original plan, which suggests that someone from Parklands made a submission to get it changed.

It costs nothing but a few minutes to make these submissions, but particularly where you agree with the plans it is worth doing. Most people only get interested when the work actually happens which is when it is generally too late.

BostonB

Qualified for a Darwin award maybe.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

Regardless of how qualified the engineers are they often can miss things that would strike you and I as obvious! That's why I made a submission on the Rathfarnham QBC plans for example that are currently being finalised - there were several locations where anyone who uses the QBC frequently would know of problems but that might not be that obvious otherwise. I also pointed out where I thought they were getting things right lest anyone suggest to the contrary.

I agree that people can make mistakes and that public consultation is a good thing but this quote comes direct from QBN:

To give you an idea of timelines, a typical QBC scheme starting from scratch and involving traffic analysis, planning, design, public consultation, procurement and construction would typically take 2 years to complete.

If they spend two years on a project and still manage to design an obvious bottleneck into it, there's something seriously wrong. This comes from the organisation that, until two years ago, ended every bus lane ahead of junctions and restarted them shortly after the junction so that traffic could de-merge and re-merge in the belief that it would improve flow through the junction even though it was immediately obvious after the first one that it was doing so at the expense of traffic in the bus lane. Thankfully the new people at the top realise the folly of that mistake and are slowly correcting it.

AlekSmart

That's why I made a submission on the Rathfarnham QBC plans for example that are currently being finalised - there were several locations where anyone who uses the QBC frequently would know of problems but that might not be that obvious otherwise. I also pointed out where I thought they were getting things right lest anyone suggest to the contrary.

Well done Lxflyer and I agree fully with the principle`s you espouse.

However,with respect the proposed Rathfarnham QBC alterations were sufficiently well publicised to make the National Press as well as exciting the interest of local and national political figures.

I`m not so certain the Laurel Lodge situation would have even figured on the radar of even the "Interested" residents let alone the general assembly of Dublin 15`rs.

From the rather self-explainatory photos posted by BostonB,this particular example of traffic management has a decidely amateurish and ill thought look to it....actually, on the basis of those photo`s I`d veer towards dangerous as a more accurate description as it introduces direct traffic flow conflict which did not exist heretofore ?

http://tinypic.com/r/al6ipy/7

That particular photo raises SO many safety-related questions,that I rather suspect will have Dublin Bus`s Operations Department seeking to cover itself very rapidly indeed.

According to the Rules of The Road Traffic on a lane which is being truncated (In this case the Right-Hand,"Outer" lane),should yield to Traffic proceeding in the unrestricted lane.

However,the photo clearly shows a "Yield" road-marking painted on the Lane being used by the Bus,which effectively demonstrates the limit of the QBN Office`s remit in this case.

However on a more general point,this little stunt has all the appearances of a low-rent exercise given to a recently qualified graduate to handle,who then simply opened-up his/her laptop and whizz`d away on some fancy "package" or other until all the required movements were catered for.

What is even more worrying,however,is the realization that this....."modification" will (or at least, should) have come before the relevant Traffic Sub-Committee which would have had a Garda Traffic Corp representative on it.

This really should not be about members of the public making "submissions" at this level....The photo`s,as BostonB sez,show a situation that,to a reasonable observer,just does`nt look right.

Generally speaking if it looks like a duck,and it quacks like a duck,it`s a....duck.

It`s not a fundamentalist revolt this country needs,it`s a rebellion of the sensible.... :eek:

dirtynosebeps

theres no real words to decribe this except to say it's a real nightmare and a serious accident waiting to happen. those in the council or whoever they are should resign.whats worse is i live in one of the streets along laurel lodge road and now they have made our situation ( residents) a whole lot worse. as it is motorists are using castleknock rise/ vale / grange and parklands as a rat run to beat the morning Q's/ gridlock. now that traffic lights are being installed at parklands junction it's going to be mayhem.it'll be only a matter of time when and not if a child is going to be knocked down in one of these roads.
alek i dont think your fully aware of this picture. but where where it was taken is a bus stop which can be extremely busy at the best of times. the reason i'm bringing this to your attention is your fully aware of passengers ringing the bell at the last second for their stop and in most cases buses tend to over run their stops to let the tending passengers off. there'll be no room for error here.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=al6ipy&s=7.

AlekSmart

dirtynosebeps wrote: »

theres no real words to decribe this except to say it's a real nightmare and a serious accident waiting to happen..........
Alek i dont think your fully aware of this picture. but where where it was taken is a bus stop which can be extremely busy at the best of times. the reason i'm bringing this to your attention is your fully aware of passengers ringing the bell at the last second for their stop and in most cases buses tend to over run their stops to let the tending passengers off. there'll be no room for error here.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=al6ipy&s=7.

Thanks DNB,I responded to this thread initially from a Busddrivers perspective as it directly impacted on how a Busdriver is expected to perform their job.

Although I do not operate along this corridor,BostonB`s photos illustrate a particularly cack-handed attempt at Traffic Management which now imposes a far higher risk of accident and injury to the general public and to Dublin Bus customers and Staff in particular.

It has to be borne in mind that the general public are now constantly advised that some hugely professional,State-Of-The Art,Best-Practice agency now run virtually all of our formerly "Public" Services.

Thus,when we are offered a 100% unfit-for-purpose outcome such as this scheme blatantly represents,then some form of accountancy is required.

In the meantime Dirtynosebeps,when that serious accident occurs,this thread,and the observations of locals such as yourself,may well put an end to some hi-flying Town Planners career,and perhaps see them jailed for actual or contributory negligence ? :mad: :mad:

LXFlyer

Well I would certainly urge people to send a well worded letter/email to the QBN office as I would agree with everyone - it is totally daft and potentially a safety risk.

Victor

AlekSmart wrote: »

In the meantime Dirtynosebeps,when that serious accident occurs,this thread,and the observations of locals such as yourself,may well put an end to some hi-flying Town Planners career,and perhaps see them jailed for actual or contributory negligence ? :mad: :mad:

This is purely a road traffic engineer thing and nothing to do with town planning.

BostonB

I might be mistaken, but t heres seems to be two signal controlled pedestrian crossings at either side of this layout.

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

This is purely a road traffic engineer thing and nothing to do with town planning.

Thanks Victor,In the context of the foregoing,the term Town Planner can,if desired,be taken to include Traffic Engineer....:)

(Those who applied for Civil Service positions immediately post Equality leglislation will recognise the wording )

Jeff Albertson

I just took a look at Google Street view (which was surveyed before the Bus lane was "upgraded") and the bus lane was always there.

What they seem to have done is stopped and started the bus lane at various points, with yield lines which tend to be ignored by some and just cause plain confusion by others.

The two sets of traffic lights beside Parklands are completely pointless, there never seems to be traffic coming from Parklands or Castleknock Elms when there is a red light nor is there ever pedestrians crossing.

During construction I was so happy to see the widening of Laurel Lodge, Rd to include the left turn lane at the junction of Castleknock Rd, only for this new lane to be made totally redundant by the crazy rearranging of the lanes further up the road.

BostonB

Dunno how it has effected the peak traffic, I rarely go that why at peak.

Off peak you are always caught by at least one or two of the lights.

I assume it makes it easier to cross as a pedestrian.

As a means of speeding up the bus, its fails abysmally.