Will the Green Party survive this election?

The green party are predited to lose alot of their seats in tomorrows election.
Could this be the end of the green party? i'd be sad to see them go.
Even John Gormley is predicted to lose his seat

mikemac

It won't be the end of the party
Even if they get no TD elected, they have councillors all over the country.
Not very many now but still, I don't see them breaking up

Liam Byrne

Considering they've managed to turn a reasonably Green person like myself against the Green agenda, good riddance.

Kristopherus

Hopefully they'll be wiped out, closely followed by FF:mad::mad::mad:

Rubik.

Sargent and possibly Ryan are suppose to have a chance of regaining their seats.

InigoMontoya

I don't think they're going anywhere, regardless how bad the election is for them, there are a lot of people who believe in the green agenda, if not the current Green Party TDs. Will be a serious setback though.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ixtlan

Kristopherus wrote: »

Hopefully they'll be wiped out, closely followed by FF:mad::mad::mad:

Well, I say cowering behind a wall, holding an umbrella against the barrage of rotten tomatoes...

I think they are being a bit hard done by in recent times. They decided to compromise on some principles in order to get some of their policies achieved. They weren't in power for the setup to the financial disaster. Whether they should have acted differently as regards the bank guarantee is something that will we can all argue about. Let's not divert the thread too far down that path.

They will lose all their seats, except maybe one. Will it wipe out the party? No. Though it may well be the case that this generation of politicians will retire from public life. They may revert to a party of protest for a decade or more.

Ix.

upmeath

The outgoing government parties got over 46% (FF 41.6/GP 4.7) of the popular vote in 2007 combined. They're each polling around a third of those support levels now, so one could expect their representation to fall by two thirds or more.

In the case of the Greens that's going to hit them hardest because the few constituencies that did support them in 2007 and before then are swing constituencies with a high proportion of fickle/wandering voters. Gormley's constituency of Dublin SE is wide open, only Ruairí Quinn is safe, Lucinda Creighton's comments on gay couples last week haven't helped her case.
Of all the outgoing Greens, I'd imagine Sargent has the best chances of reelection - he stood down from the party leadership when they entered into coalition with FF, hopefully the voters of Dublin North his reluctance to prop up Bertie & Friends. Dublin Mid-West might treat us to another few years of Paul Gogarty, you never know.

But the party won't disband. The most radical upshot of a Dáil wipeout I can see would be a regrouping or a merger with similar interests to form a leftist political entity with green leanings - look at GreenLeft in the Netherlands.

mgegan

ixtlan wrote: »

Well, I say cowering behind a wall, holding an umbrella against the barrage of rotten tomatoes...

I think they are being a bit hard done by in recent times. They decided to compromise on some principles in order to get some of their policies achieved. They weren't in power for the setup to the financial disaster. Whether they should have acted differently as regards the bank guarantee is something that will we can all argue about. Let's not divert the thread too far down that path.

They will lose all their seats, except maybe one. Will it wipe out the party? No. Though it may well be the case that this generation of politicians will retire from public life. They may revert to a party of protest for a decade or more.

Ix.

There is no need for a 'Green' Party. Green policies should be common sense. We should be trying to produce our own power - the Spirit of Ireland plan should be investigated to the last and if possible 3 power stations build on the west coast. We should be investing in wind power. We should also be looking a bio fuel. All are achievable and we can deliver on them. There should be 5-7 Billion pumped into this over the next 5 years. Ireland could become self sufficient from Hydro, Wind and Bio power within 10 years. We could keep the existing power generation facilities and export the surplus. Norway do this.

All our water systems should be upgraded so that water quality is top notch and water loss in miminised. This should also be a priority.

We should be keeping out river and lakes clean.

We should investigate the production of power from animal slurry and the by-products should be used for composting. There should be no slurry spreading.

Cities, towns, villages should be kept clean and tidy as should beaches and public areas. Anyone on social welfare should have to give 2 days a week to maintain these facilities or to help with voluntary groups.

We need to reduce our carbon emissions not because of some international law or because of global warming which I am not even sure is a 'real' issue but because it makes for a cleaner better environment.

We should recycle and reuse as much as possible.

All waste should be treated with the utmost care especially toxic or harmful materials.

All our building, homes, business or recreational facilities should be build to conserve energy and to harness it where possible.

We should try where possible to have a good public transport system.

All parties and people should have these objectives because they are good ones for the country, the environment, the people, the planet, our children and their children, wildlife, plant life etc etc etc. It would also make the country a healthier better place to live.

Hasschu

There has to be a place for all those earnest and well intentioned young women and the young men they influence to go. Their natural home is the Green Party so it will be around for decades. A name change may be in order such as the Irish Indepent Party with the slogan energy independence. We will not be reliant on foreigners in flowing robes and aviator glasses.

johno2

mgegan wrote: »

There is no need for a 'Green' Party. Green policies should be common sense.

...

All parties and people should have these objectives because they are good ones for the country, the environment, the people, the planet, our children and their children, wildlife, plant life etc etc etc. It would also make the country a healthier better place to live.

Yeah, that's a lovely sentiment but it's a bit of a utopian viewpoint. The facts are that only 5% of the population care about that stuff enough to actually vote for the GP, and it'll probably be less now they've been in bed with FF. The other parties don't really care about that 5% of the vote very much. When it's easy and obvious they'll take on some of the GP ideas and claim them for their own, obvious high-profile examples include the smokeless coal initiative and the plastic bag tax. The main stream parties get their votes on issues like abortion, public sector protectionism, taxation levels, infrastructure investments and of course speaking populist lies right before an election.

johno

bleg

They'll get 2 seats.

Tarobot

Green Party in Germany got wiped out after its first term in power and came back from it.

Incumbents do worse as it's hard to do wrong in opposition. Then next time they get voted back in. As long as the other political parties' environmental policies are as woeful and short-sighted as they are, there will be an Irish Green Party.

vaalea

Green Party is the party with a real vision for the future. It will not die. Some countries have strong green party/voters but never get a seat because of unjust way seats are chosen... and they keep on fighting. Only in a utopia can I see the name "green party" disappear:p because sustainability is genuinely number 1 for all.

gandalf

Sargent is probably going to be the only survivor and that is because the choice of candidate in his constituency is very poor.

Koyasan

upmeath wrote: »

The outgoing government parties got over 46% (FF 41.6/GP 4.7) of the popular vote in 2007 combined. They're each polling around a third of those support levels now, so one could expect their representation to fall by two thirds or more.

Where did you get that figure from? I've only seen just over 46% for FF on their own in 2007, not FF and the Greens.

+1 to Johno: The other parties have only taken on board Green policies (and this year blatantly plagiarised) in recent recent years as the party has gained support. They have never shown any inkling for taking on energy independence or reducing the €6billion we send abroad annually on fuel.

The Green Party is a movement and not a party as such. Even the "Leader" isn't a leader in the sense of the other parties. The will continue to campaign even with zero seats. But they will be much more effective and able to influence legislation in committees with even just on TD.

Queen-Mise

good riddance to them but they wont disappear. Stupid party, totally unsuitable to be in government

dave1982

Thing that annoy's me about them is,they don't seem to care who they go into government should they be given the chance.

Koyasan

dave1982 wrote: »

Thing that annoy's me about them is,they don't seem to care who they go into government should they be given the chance.

You've obviously been on here!

http://www.youtube.com/user/GreenPartyIreland

They do say very clearly that they feel that the policies are too important to wait until there is a Green overall majority. They believe that the sooner the policies are implemented, the better it will be for the country in the long run and that there is therefore an imperative to to do so as soon as possible.

If you disagree with that and things like energy independence, reducing our vulnerability to fossil fuels and and reducing the €6billion annually we send abroad for fuel, I would suggest you not vote for them

johno2

dave1982 wrote: »

Thing that annoy's me about them is,they don't seem to care who they go into government should they be given the chance.

Well the last time they went into government with the most popular party in the country. If they get a couple of seats this time and the most popular party in the country offers them a ministry in the government they'd be stupid not to accept it. I don't think the green TDs voted for FF in the last election, but a lot of people here seem to think they did just that. The simple fact is, FF were going into government anyway* and the GP had to play the cards they were dealt.

* The only alternative to FF in government was FG/Lab/GP/SF and Jackie Healy-Rae.

johno

dave1982

Koyasan wrote: »

You've obviously been on here!

http://www.youtube.com/user/GreenPartyIreland

They do say very clearly that they feel that the policies are too important to wait until there is a Green overall majority. They believe that the sooner the policies are implemented, the better it will be for the country in the long run and that there is therefore an imperative to to do so as soon as possible.

If you disagree with that and things like energy independence, reducing our vulnerability to fossil fuels and and reducing the €6billion annually we send abroad for fuel, I would suggest you not vote for them

1 they claim they regulated the banks
2 created more jobs
3 want to stop corruption

I believe whichever party/parties is in power should be united and agree on all things however big or small

Greens saying they go in to Government with any party suggests to me.

There will be a lot i'll scratch your back,if scratch mine.

Green may disagree on for example more cuts to public services but FG want to.There a high chance FG will say look we will give x if if vote in favor of these cuts.

To me thats a form of corruption

johno2

dave1982 wrote: »

1 they claim they regulated the banks
2 created more jobs
3 want to stop corruption

I believe whichever party/parties is in power should be united and agree on all things however big or small

If that was the case they wouldn't be 2 different parties in the first place. A party is a group of people who agree to put forward a package of policies which they would use to govern the country if they get an overall majority.

dave1982 wrote: »

Greens saying they go in to Government with any party suggests to me.

There will be a lot i'll scratch your back,if scratch mine.

Green may disagree on for example more cuts to public services but FG want to.There a high chance FG will say look we will give x if if vote in favor of these cuts.

To me thats a form of corruption

Fair enough if that's your opinion. Other people would call it compromise.

The way it works is that the parties get together and negotiate with each other to draw up a program for government. Some parties get certain ministries and more of their policies go into that ministry. The balance of which policies get carried through from a parties election manifesto to the program for government depends largely on the proportional number of seats that the parties have. That's not the only factor but it's a big one. You can't expect a party that gets about 6% of the vote to implement all their policies in less than 4 years.

johno

Einhard

mgegan wrote: »

There is no need for a 'Green' Party. Green policies should be common sense. We should be trying to produce our own power - the Spirit of Ireland plan should be investigated to the last and if possible 3 power stations build on the west coast. We should be investing in wind power. We should also be looking a bio fuel. All are achievable and we can deliver on them. There should be 5-7 Billion pumped into this over the next 5 years. Ireland could become self sufficient from Hydro, Wind and Bio power within 10 years. We could keep the existing power generation facilities and export the surplus. Norway do this.

All our water systems should be upgraded so that water quality is top notch and water loss in miminised. This should also be a priority.

We should be keeping out river and lakes clean.

We should investigate the production of power from animal slurry and the by-products should be used for composting. There should be no slurry spreading.

Cities, towns, villages should be kept clean and tidy as should beaches and public areas. Anyone on social welfare should have to give 2 days a week to maintain these facilities or to help with voluntary groups.

We need to reduce our carbon emissions not because of some international law or because of global warming which I am not even sure is a 'real' issue but because it makes for a cleaner better environment.

We should recycle and reuse as much as possible.

All waste should be treated with the utmost care especially toxic or harmful materials.

All our building, homes, business or recreational facilities should be build to conserve energy and to harness it where possible.

We should try where possible to have a good public transport system.

All parties and people should have these objectives because they are good ones for the country, the environment, the people, the planet, our children and their children, wildlife, plant life etc etc etc. It would also make the country a healthier better place to live.

I remember when I was a young lad about 20 years ago, I used go along to Earthwatch meetings every week, organised by the man who eventually became a local Green councillor. I remember also being laughed at and called a tree hugger for doing so! The Green agenda is very au fait now, but until recently, the Greens have been scorned and ridiculed for policies which are the mainstream now. So let's not pretend that all other parties have long espoused green views, or that they have long been regarded as common sense. When it comes to the green agenda, FG and the rest are very much late to the party, and yet have somehow managed to make it seem as if they were there all along!

johno2

Einhard wrote: »

I remember when I was a young lad about 20 years ago, I used go along to Earthwatch meetings every week, organised by the man who eventually became a local Green councillor. I remember also being laughed at and called a tree hugger for doing so! The Green agenda is very au fait now, but until recently, the Greens have been scorned and ridiculed for policies which are the mainstream now. So let's not pretend that all other parties have long espoused green views, or that they have long been regarded as common sense. When it comes to the green agenda, FG and the rest are very much late to the party, and yet have somehow managed to make it seem as if they were there all along!

That'll do me to be honest. I don't care if the Green policies are well implemented by the GP or someone else, as long as they get implemented. I'm going to keep voting Green, even if it's just to tell whichever parties are in government that these policies matter and hopefully that will keep them on the manifestos.

The Dept of Environment was only founded in 1977, probably because of the growing awareness in the pubic of the importance of environmental issues.

johno

Einhard

johno2 wrote: »

That'll do me to be honest. I don't care if the Green policies are well implemented by the GP or someone else, as long as they get implemented. I'm going to keep voting Green, even if it's just to tell whichever parties are in government that these policies matter and hopefully that will keep them on the manifestos.

The Dept of Environment was only founded in 1977, probably because of the growing awareness in the pubic of the importance of environmental issues.

johno

That's what I like about the Greens actually. I think it was Sargent who was asked recently, how it felt to have other parties steal their policies. And he replied that as long as they got implemented, he didn't care who implemented them. I won't be giving them my no. 1, or even 2, but I'll pop them down for 3.

shannon_tek

Cant wait to see them get out. there were gonna slowly kill this country. for the good of it. but still. some ppls jobs rely on things there were and future planned to.

johnmcdnl

in one way I want to see them eradicated from the face of Irish politics but on the other hand at the core what the Greens stand for is going to be needed in the long run...

we do need to conserve natural resources, use fuel efficient cars, switch to renewable power etc etc


the problem is once they have to start thinking about economics they're out of their comfort zone..


we do need a party that will put the environmental issues to the front or else in 50 years time where will we be regardless of whether Ireland defaults or not... what do we do when the oil runs out and the atmosphere is completely polluted in man made gases and whatever else...

for this alone I would like to see the Greens make it through this election but I can't make myself vote for them because their answers to everything seemed to be tax tax tax tax tax with not a whole lot of return from what I seen...
I'm not saying that they didn't do a bit to try to help environmental issues in Ireland but from what "I" seen they didn't do half enough

Tarobot

johnmcdnl wrote: »

the problem is once they have to start thinking about economics they're out of their comfort zone..

I can see why you would think that but according to OECD studies, the least damaging taxes for an economy are property taxes and consumption-based taxes. Labour taxes and corporation taxes are the most damaging. So even the OECD agrees generally with Green fiscal policy.

dolphin city

well, the only noticable thing they have done in power was to turn the green into yellow - so I can safely say that I bypassed them completely on my vote this morning.

ltp003

the greens are against anything from rural ireland coursing greyhound racing horse racing animals been used for food etc.

a total crowd of urban fools

johno2

ltp003 wrote: »

the greens are against anything from rural ireland coursing greyhound racing horse racing animals been used for food etc.

a total crowd of urban fools

Yeah, because if you can't eat it, drink it, burn it or f**k it, it must be useless right?

johno

Don Din

ixtlan wrote: »

Well, I say cowering behind a wall, holding an umbrella against the barrage of rotten tomatoes...

I think they are being a bit hard done by in recent times. They decided to compromise on some principles in order to get some of their policies achieved. They weren't in power for the setup to the financial disaster. Whether they should have acted differently as regards the bank guarantee is something that will we can all argue about. Let's not divert the thread too far down that path.

They will lose all their seats, except maybe one. Will it wipe out the party? No. Though it may well be the case that this generation of politicians will retire from public life. They may revert to a party of protest for a decade or more.

Ix.

It would be a pity if the Green voice was not represented in the next Dail.

I would have voted for them, if the candidate in my constituency was electable. I'd have no hesitation in voting for Sargent, Ryan or Gormley. They are electable and are good solid politicians that combine idealism with a bit of realism. They were unlucky to be in government when the crash came.

Koyasan

ltp003 wrote: »

the greens are against anything from rural ireland coursing greyhound racing horse racing animals been used for food etc.

a total crowd of urban fools

Yeah, that's why there are no hunters or farmers in the Greens...

oh wait:rolleyes:

Someone else

I don't know if they will get any seats, but I got 5/4 on 1 or more with PPower:D put €2.50 on...


The one thing I noticed about the greens was that they are the only party that seem to put policy, (holding out) before the popular thing to do. This inevitably puts their seats at risk.

= policy before seats

How many other parties are like that?

Saw a comment from the Green Mark Collins in Cork NW
"The Green Party's manifesto is being described as 'too honest' but short on 'vote getters'. By 'vote getters', they mean bull**** promises."

johno2

Someone else wrote: »

The one thing I noticed about the greens was that they are the only party that seem to put policy, (holding out) before the popular thing to do. This inevitably puts their seats at risk.

= policy before seats

How many other parties are like that?

Saw a comment from the Green Mark Collins in Cork NW
"The Green Party's manifesto is being described as 'too honest' but short on 'vote getters'. By 'vote getters', they mean bull**** promises."

I agree completely and I'm glad you noticed too. Most people can't see the world from any perspective except what is going on in their own head. I think people who aren't altruistic are naturally suspicious of people who are and they think there has to be a hidden catch somewhere. I've had to argue with SF supporters here who were saying that the Greens were only out for themselves. I wonder do they even know what SF translates as?

johno

Liam Byrne

johno2 wrote: »

Most people can't see the world from any perspective except what is going on in their own head. I think people who aren't altruistic are naturally suspicious of people who are and they think there has to be a hidden catch somewhere.

I think that's pretty insulting, tbh.....I'd view myself as pretty altruistic on lots of issues and so you claiming the "high moral ground" while pretending that that is the reason I don't agree with the Greens is out of line (and, I have to say, unexpected :eek:).

johno2

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think that's pretty insulting, tbh.....I'd view myself as pretty altruistic on lots of issues and so you claiming the "high moral ground" while pretending that that is the reason I don't agree with the Greens is out of line (and, I have to say, unexpected :eek:).

It wasn't meant to be insulting. I don't consider altruist behaviour to be superior or anything like that. There is an evolutionary basis for the emergence of altruistic behaviour, it's related to game theory. That's all it is. Maths and statistics.

And my comment was a generalisation on populations, not a finger pointed at anyone in particular.

johno