Why I'm voting for an Independent.

Dannygirl

I’ve decided this year that I am going to vote for someone I believe in rather than choose someone because they are in a main party. Many people think a vote for an independent is a wasted vote, some probably are. I happen to be lucky in that we have a really strong independent candidate running in Wicklow, Stephen Donnelly. So it’s a no brainer for me!
But here’s the thing, and whether I’m right or wrong I feel strongly about this, if we keep voting for either FG, Labour, FF etc because we feel we have to vote a party in, then when will there ever be a change in our Dail? We’ll be stuck with those three main parties forever.
If even a few good strong independents get in this time, people will see the difference they can make, and good ones can make a difference, however small at first. Who knows, a new party in a couple of elections time? It’s the only way there will ever be change, it might take some time but we have to start somewhere. I missed Arsenal/Barcelona in the Champions League to go and see Donnelly speak in Bray, having seen him on Vincent Brown, watched a few you tube clips etc. That says a lot about how strongly I feel. Oh and it was lashing rain that night too so I had every reason to sit in by the fire watching footie!
Anyway that’s how I’ll be voting and will be happy in the knowledge that I at least stood for someone I believe in and didn’t just decide between the others because they are in a party, which if I’m honest is what I used to do.
If anyone is undecided, and lives in Wicklow, have a look at a few of his you tube clips, or web page. It’s really worth it.

Ps: I have no connection with Donnelly.

zig

Its not that people expect you or force you to vote for a party or anything like that, its just that alot of independents only care about 1 issue and thats the local one, this is the fear with independents. But tbf, they are not all like that. I hope Stephen Donnellys campaign is based on national issues not local issues.

PS, I agree, I would never not vote someone just because they mightnt have a chance of getting in. Itd be madness to think like that.

devilsad

Good for you. He seems like a decent fella. He's highly unlikely to take a seat however. I'm not for a moment suggesting you should reconsider. I think you should vote for whoever you think is best suited to the job and if that's Donnelly for you, great. But you need to consider who gets your transfer, because that's where Donnelly's 1st preference votes will go. If there are candidates you definately don't want to see get a seat, a preference vote for those who closest match your politics will work against those candidates you don't want to see elected.

Dannygirl

zig wrote: »

I hope Stephen Donnellys campaign is based on national issues not local issues.

Yea it's based on national issues and he seems qualified.
From his web page:
'In 2008, he completed a Masters’ degree in Public Administration and International Development at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. Here he examined, in detail, the interaction between the IMF and small states.'

Dannygirl

devilsad wrote: »

Good for you. He seems like a decent fella. He's highly unlikely to take a seat however. I'm not for a moment suggesting you should reconsider. I think you should vote for whoever you think is best suited to the job and if that's Donnelly for you, great. But you need to consider who gets your transfer, because that's where Donnelly's 1st preference votes will go. If there are candidates you definately don't want to see get a seat, a preference vote for those who closest match your politics will work against those candidates you don't want to see elected.

I so hope you're wrong!
But yea I have thought about my transfers also.

Dannygirl

He's walking the Boards.ie poll.

devilsad

Timmins (FG)
Harris (FG)
Ferris (Lab)
Kavanagh (Lab)

A fight for the last seat between Doyle (FG) & Roche (FF)

Donnelly is 4 or 5 off these last two, so no chance.

So long as Roche gets kicked out on his ear in Wicklow, I'll be happy, but I won't have the pleasure of not voting for him unfortunately.

Dannygirl

I'll not vote for him for you!

Pete_Cavan

The problem I have with voting for independents is that they do not automatically have speaking rights in the Dail and by voting for an independent you are voting for someone with no voice. In order to gain full speaking rights, a group of independents and/or small party(s) have to join together and form a Technical Group. Without full speaking rights, what is the point in them being there? It would be interesting to see how many people who plan to vote for independents are aware that the person they elect to represent them may not even have the opportunity to speak in the Dail.

I think the best way to challenge the dominance of the established parties is to have more small technical groups, like New Vision and ULA. These are groups who have agreed on core issues which they would support if elected but are not bound by the party whip system and can vote whatever way they want on other issues. If a number of right oriented independents formed such a group they would be ideal to go into coalition with FG which would have a strong government but without giving one party free reign.

Having said all that, from what I have seen of the independent the OP plans to vote for, he seems very impressive and the kind of person we should have in the Dail - but then we are back to my original issue, if he cant speak or influence things why have him there?

Flimbos

I'm sure there are good independents out there who work hard. But one problem I have with independents is the fact that they are all entitled to claim an annual €41,152 "party leaders' allowance" -- on top of their salary and unvouched.

This allowance had historically only been given to party leaders and was based on the number of sitting TDs each party had.

However, it was extended to Independents in 2001, when (guess who) Bertie's coalition was dependant on the support of four Independents.

goat2

did jackie healy rae not have a strong influence as an indipendend elected person while in last dail

Dannygirl

goat2 wrote: »

did jackie healy rae not have a strong influence as an indipendend elected person while in last dail

He did, as did Tony Gregory.

cornbb

goat2 wrote: »

did jackie healy rae not have a strong influence as an indipendend elected person while in last dail

Yeah, the very worst type of influence. He held the govt to ransom in order to get his own petty local issues sorted out, knowing full well an election would be around the corner.

Holding the government to ransom wouldn't be so bad by itself but the likes of him would happily screw the country over in order to satisfy enough local voters.

I'm wondering if all independents like that. There are one or 2 independents in my constituency that I'd like to support, but how do I know that they'd do the right thing when it comes to national issues?

thebaldsoprano

OP a big problem I have with a lot of independents is that their policies aren't that well thought out, so I'm left a little unsure about what exactly I'm voting for. Yer man Donnelly does seem to be one of the better ones in this respect, but if you look, say, at his education policy here, he mentiones the need to raise the standards in third level education without going into much detail about funding this. What's his stance on tuition fees for instance? While it'd be unreasonable to expect an independent's policies to be as well developed as those of larger parties, a lot of them could make much more of an effort in this area.

Having said that, I'm considering voting for an independent myself - FG are the closest policy-wise to what I'd like to see in government, but there's the small matter that they voted to guarantee Anglo's debt. And I agree that if we keep voting in the usual suspects, we'll keep getting the usual results.

Syferus

Donnelly impressed me on the Frontline, as did my local independent and porobably the poster boy for the vital role indepenents can play in poltics, Luke 'Ming' Flanagan. I'd certainly like to see both in the next Dáil.

The issue with being a TD goes far beyond speaking rights, though; in the case of someone like Ming, he gets (and will get even more, if he is elected) far more important speaking rights in that the media love to feature him. He's also part of the New vision group, so he has the potential to double dip, as it were.

The Dáil is as much about being noticed by the media and maknig your opinions part of the discucsion on issues like political reform and tourism, as well the ecomony. The best independents, like any TD, balance national and local issues. If your ideas have traction, it's likely you'll be included, even indirectly, in the resulting policy formation.

Independents need to be forceful to be relevent in opposition, but for any to think they have little or no role is far from reality.

Dannygirl

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

OP a big problem I have with a lot of independents is that their policies aren't that well thought out, so I'm left a little unsure about what exactly I'm voting for. Yer man Donnelly does seem to be one of the better ones in this respect, but if you look, say, at his education policy here, he mentiones the need to raise the standards in third level education without going into much detail about funding this. What's his stance on tuition fees for instance? While it'd be unreasonable to expect an independent's policies to be as well developed as those of larger parties, a lot of them could make much more of an effort in this area.

Having said that, I'm considering voting for an independent myself - FG are the closest policy-wise to what I'd like to see in government, but there's the small matter that they voted to guarantee Anglo's debt. And I agree that if we keep voting in the usual suspects, we'll keep getting the usual results.

He was asked this question at a meeting in Bray and he said he believes that you can't have the best quality third level education and it be free. He spoke about something similar to the way Australia do it, which is that students get a low interest/interest free loan which they only begin paying back when they finish college and start working. The taxpayers would pay the interest. Something like that anyway...but don't quote me!
It does seem to make sense that you can't possibly have the best or even close to the best colleges/professors and have it free.