1998 Range Rover, experiences

Bumpstop

Anyone have any experience of the Range Rover circa 1998, 2nd generation P38 I think it's called.
I am thinking of the 2.5 Diesel, non commercial version.
Is the air suspension bad on them all, do they all have this suspension.
What's it like on Diesel, etc.
Are they easy to diy work on.
Any thoughts or experiences.

Oops just noticed there is a 4 by 4 section, sorreee

Thanks.

Alanstrainor

Bumpstop wrote: »

Oops just noticed there is a 4 by 4 section, sorreee

Thanks.

No worries man. Moved.

101sean

They are usually referred to as P38s, built 94-02. The engine is a BMW and doesn't give problems, performance isn't sparkling though. If fuel consumption is a worry you don't want a big 4x4, probably 25mpg at best.

The air suspension is reliable provided you don't ignore problems, leaking airbags should be replaced asap, they are cheap enough, a burnt out compressor or valve block isn't. If you find a coil sprung one it's because a previous owner has fitted them, you can buy conversion kits.

They were the first Land Rover to rely heavily on electronics and had a reputation for being unreliable. Any left still going should be sorted, just make sure absolutely everything works. They are DIY but you will need something like a Bearmach Hawkeye to talk to the ECUs. As with all Land Rovers, spares support is extremely good.

There's a couple of boardsies on here with experience of them but there's plenty of advice on the Range Rover Register and specialist forums, they've got so cheap there's loads of fixes and get rounds.

You do realise you'll be paying nearly €1000 in motor tax? You do get a lot of vehicle for little money though.

Bumpstop

Thanks Sean.

Yes I don't mind the tax, offset by the cheap buying price.
A lot of the ones I see are around the 150K mark I do about 20,000 miles a year. I would like to keep it for about 4 years.
Would one make it to that sort of mileage. Are they reliable, I would like to use it as a daily driver.
I don't mind working on it, but will I get it to a point, where it will always get me to work.

BTW from the 101 in your sig, I guess you might have a 101, very nice looking vehicle.

101sean

Mechanically they use mostly standard LR bits, it's the electronics that let them down, but as said, any complete lemons should have been scrapped by now. The part that must work properly is the air suspension, check all the settings and that it stays level when the engine is off. Also make sure you get both key fobs and that it locks and alarms properly. Check that transfer box engages low, it's push button on a manual but may never have been used! Auto boxes were only available on diesel after 1999.

The rest of the electronics is stuff like seats, ICE system, A/C etc which should all work but is a bargaining point and ought to be fixeable given all the knowledge that's out there now.

As to daily driver, it will probably be fine but could be a heartbreaker, you could say the same of any 12 year old luxury car though.

Late Discovery 2 (imported leather spec) would be worth considering but the magic carpet ride of a Range Rover takes some beating.

Yes, I have a 101, the best Land Rover ever made!

101sean

Buyers guide, although it relates to the V8, everything else applies.
http://www.mez.co.uk/p38.html

A quick google shows the diesel can blow head gaskets so check the expansion bottle.

jizzyboner

Hi Bumpstop

I would have to agree with what Sean says.

Back in 2003 I bought a 98 DSE Auto and it broke me up for the 2 months i owned it. Anything that could go wrong with it did go wrong, except funnily enough I had no trouble with the air suspension.

The final straw really for me was when I took it to a friend who owned a local garage and he refused to give it back to me as there was a serious problem with the steering, as ha happened to another guy near to me lately and he ended up bouncing off a ditch as he could no longer steer it.

What made it all the worse was that it had only been DOE'd in Cork a few weeks before that. Back then you could DOE even the passenger ones, maybe because of the unladen weight but I never found out. Made a big difference to the road tax anyway. Not sure how that would work today though.

Daily driver?? I really wouldn't think so. If it was me I would have something as a spare, even something like a Micra at least you know it will start in the morning for you.

I was going to give you a full list of all the things I had problems with, but I realised I have a meeting in 4 hours :eek:

To be honest I would buy another one but I would be way more careful and choosy next time, and I wouldn't have it as my main vehicle.

They are lovely in theory and good luck with it if you do get one.

Pat

Bumpstop

Thanks for the replies, food for thought. I am not sure now.
I have run old Jaguars for years, so I am used to sort of hit and miss motoring, and love a challenge.
Did you get rid of the RR after 2 months because it was so bad ?
These Range Rovers have such character, I wish they had reliability.
I'm gonna go into research mode. I'll have a look at a few, and try not to get too stary eyed.
What is it about these sort of vehicles, we say yes it broke my heart/ wallet, oh yea of course I would get another one.
Argh can't be doin' with the disco, dunno why.

Thank you.

Bumpstop

I have had a think about it, and looked into the air suspension.
The system looks pretty straightforeward, and easy to work on.
There seems to be huge support online for air suspension, and work arounds.
Parts look very cheap.
I think I'll go for it, I see a few for sale, I will have a look.
Service manuals are available. I fear the 2.5 may be a bit underpowered,( I want to tow a trailer) but ya gotta cut your cloth etc.

101sean

It should hold no surprises for you then.

Do a search on RAVE CD, there's 3 of them with manuals etc covering all post 87 Land Rovers, you should be able to download them for free. Also Microcat parts catalogue although it's a bit of a fiddle to make it run.

Bumpstop

It sorta makes me laugh, private ads.
Ring ring.

Me, hello you have a car for sale.
Them, Er yes
Me, so whats the story with it.
Them, er yes it's a good car.
Me, so tell me a bit about it.
Them, er which car are you ringing about.
Me, oh you sell cars.
Them, no I am selling two cars one is my mothers/brothers/sisters uncle Silus/the guy on rte does the sub titles.
Me. so the log book is your name
Them. er me or the wife, er or the brother in law
Me, okay I will arrange a viewing with you in the next few days.
Them, well yea no problem, I am just showing it to a guy at the moment, he seems very keen.(everyone of them had some version of this)
Me, major yawn yea whatever.

Of the few ads I rang, not one was just a guy selling his Rangie honestly, because it was trying to bankrupt him.
Smoke and mirrors.

Makes me mad.

hplp

what annoys me even more is (usually Irish Ive found) when a seller describes something as perfect.

Its so stupid....

H

jizzyboner

hplp wrote: »

what annoys me even more is (usually Irish Ive found) when a seller describes something as perfect.

Its so stupid....

H

Quite right H

But as we all know now, anyone selling a Range Rover and describing it as "perfect" is obviously away with the fairies

A perfect Range Rover exists only in folklore.

Pat

Quattroste

My RR is perfect! Never given me any trouble..... and I have have it 40 days now.

jizzyboner

Quattroste wrote: »

My RR is perfect! Never given me any trouble..... and I have have it 40 days now.

you must be very lucky or blessed

Just out of curiosity, what year and model is it??

Hope it's still trouble free when it gets to 80 days :eek:

Pat

Quattroste

It's a 2005 so I hope to get past at least 80 days. I'm not mechanically minded enough to get a P38 or a classic.

Bumpstop

P38 in the garden, Damn, oh well a whole new branch of learning.
Get me a laptop, a computer lead, and a long nose pliers , STAT.

jizzyboner

Quattroste wrote: »

It's a 2005 so I hope to get past at least 80 days. I'm not mechanically minded enough to get a P38 or a classic.

Nice one. My comments were really aimed at buyers of the P38 though, and not the later L322, but I would say that even brand new ones can give fierce grief.

A case in point: A guy I know living near to me bought a brand new TDV8 in 2008. After 4 days it packed up at the side of the road and the local main dealer didn't even have the correct software to be able to read it. In the end they had to give him another brand new one (different colour) which he still has to this day. This guy has been buying a new RR every 4 years without fail, so maybe they had to look after him properly.

I wouldn't be as wary buying a classic as I would a P38. Classics were generally a lot simpler than all the new electronics they put into the P38. Anyway it's all the fun of LR ownership.

Pat

P.S. Did you manage to find anyone to remap your TD6?? Just wondering if you did and how you find it now??

jizzyboner

Bumpstop wrote: »

P38 in the garden, Damn, oh well a whole new branch of learning.
Get me a laptop, a computer lead, and a long nose pliers , STAT.

Hey Bumpstop

when you say P38 in the garden, is it meant to be there or did it just land there??

Hope you got a good un. Tell us more.

Good luck

Pat

Bumpstop

I actually got one, you hear such bad stuff I am very nervous of it. I will start to change all it's fluids, and sort of get to know it.
For many years I have driven older Jags, you hear such horror stories, but I have never had a bad one.
I sorta hope the Rangie will be the same, I spent a bit more than I wanted and hopefully got a good one.

I have one question though, looking at the drive train, I was very surprised. It doesn't have a centre lockable diff like my old Defender.
It seems to have a sort of diff (planet type gears) , and a viscous coupling.
Is this statement correct ? (without getting technical)The P38 behaves like a permanent 4 wheel drive, but with an auto locking centre diff.... sort of.


Oh, and jeez I love it, it's a bit underpowered, a bit slow, a bit bland looking, no idea why I like it.

101sean

It's fitted with a Borg-Warner chain drive transfer box with a VCU, hence no diff lock. Range change is done by electric motor so no stubby lever either.

Hope you get on well with the P38. Like Jags, there were tens of thousands built but you only get to hear the horror stories blown out of all proportion.

If you've a couple of bob left over, Range Rover, The Anniversary Guide by Mike Gould has a lot of info in it.

rrv8

101sean wrote: »

Hope you get on well with the P38. Like Jags, there were tens of thousands built but you only get to hear the horror stories blown out of all proportion.

.

So true that statement is

Been running 2.5 dse for 4 years as a daily driver , not had any more trouble with it than any other car ive owned and thats been a few
Had a few electrical problems but been easily sorted , generally its a broken wire in the drivers foot well , been easy enough to find due to the wealth of drawings and info that is available for the Land Rover range
Changed the airbags when first got it and eas works perfect , best tow motor every had , slow , but gets there in comfort

Quattroste

jizzyboner wrote: »

P.S. Did you manage to find anyone to remap your TD6?? Just wondering if you did and how you find it now??

I have but I still need to get it done. Will give the details when done on gains, mpg, drivability, etc.

Bumpstop

Well it's a week on now and I have no idea why I was so nervous, wait that's the laser eye clinic ad'.

Well so far so good, lovley car to drive, the jobs I have noticed so far, are the drivers window sticks on the way back up, and I am just gonna have to do something about that faded grill.

I have a full service kit for it, so thats this weekends job

I hope to do an automatic tranny filter and oil change over the next few weeks.

Other than that, I love it.
Thanks everyone for their input.

WestWicklow1

And just think.....

Now you can do this with it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFh8OCxbCMY

and this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95RKMy1MEcA

Bumpstop

OMG :eek: awesome. I used to get paid to do that in a Defender. Then I changed jobs, what was I thinking:(.
Hey Sean, I got that anniversary Guide book, I haven't started it yet, but the cover shot is excellent. Mean and moody rr's.

Bumpstop

Holy thread revival:eek:

Well it's almost 4 years on, the P38 I bought with 85000 miles on the clock now has 147000 miles under it's belt. Time to wave bye bye to it for me, so how did it go.

For the first 3 months the car performed perfectly.
Then the air suspension hard faulted and dropped me onto the bumpstops at 60 MPH on the M1, bumpy to say the least. Limped home.
Found free software online and made up a lead, was back on the road the next day. It sort of followed that theme.

Few months later I went out to the car park in work to find the engine cranking, it wore down the battery and eventually stopped.
By finding the warm relay I knew which one it was. got a jump start and off we went.

Whenever the relay was put in the engine would crank, so for a few weeks putting in the relay momentarily was the way to start, until I got time to wire in a switch.
It was an intermittant fault, the cause was never found and it still has the switch.

The next episode was the brake and abs light came on, then virtually no brakes, I mean almost none.
Found the brake pressure pump burned out. When I replaced it the new one kept running.
Investigation found out it was actually the brake ECU had gone faulty.

It thought the sysytem had lost pressure, it's strategy to overide the pump shut off, and run the pump continuously until the motor burned out in probably about 15 mins.
The solution here was to snip the overide wire and wire in a "pump running" light to the dash.
This would insure the pump could be monitored, for normal running, and runaway would be noticed.

Things would go okay then for a few months, lots of engine disabled warnings and various other warnings, they just became the norm.
The air suspension would always try and hard fault from time to time.
But the minute the beep was heard by opening a door slightly, the air suspension would freeze, and then a relay could be removed to get it home.

The next big event was engine shuddering, and a banging noise coming from behind the radiator, this was intermittant for a few months, worse if it was cold.
Then on the m50 one morning got a few warning lights and the temp began to increase, so pulled over.
A broken fan belt, not so serious, and the only time it stranded me on the side of the road.
replaced the belt, but the problem turned out to be the damped crankshaft pulley had disintegrated, 500 Euro part.

The car never liked being left alone, and as usual after a few weeks away, came home to find the rear on the ground, both rear airbags failed.
To be honest they were really old looking, and well past it.
The new ones from LR are hundreds of pounds, but spurious 70 Euro each.
Simple to replace too,took about an hour to do both, minimal tools required.

Finaly it became hard to start when hot, the well known "hot start" issue.
Caused by a part going faulty inside the fuel injection pump.
This eventually lead to loss of power and unreliable acceleration.

This might all paint a horrible picture, but I enjoyed my time with the P38 and grew to love it.
Sitting there, high up in the leather arm chairs, the BMW 6 growling along upfront, I was king of the road.
A car that always put a smile on my face when I saw it parked up.
Despite it's many foibles, an easy car to work on and very well supported by enthusiasts.
It saddens me to let it go, but it's a daily driver and so it's getting on a bit too much to sink money into.

Would I advise anyone to buy one? yes go ahead, a great car, and maybe I was a little unlucky.
I will say this though, my background is electrical and electronics,and knowing my way around a wiring diagram was vital.
Most of the problems were electrical in nature, and would have cost a fortune if a garage visit was required everytime something went gaga.

So that's it folks, time to say goodbye to the old girl.
I will miss her!

Ravenelli

What was reg?